Second “Thoughts”

[Streak01]

Well I know if been all over the place. Had an email from the gentleman selling the KEF LS50s. He has a vintage Sony TA-F700es and an SMSL M9 DAC. Price for speakers, Sony and dac including cables is $1200. Thoughts on this vs active speaker setup?


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[Pogre]

Well, speakers hold up really well and I've no problem with them on the used market. Electronics otoh, tend to have much shorter lifespans and you have no idea how many miles might be left on them. Either way it feels like $1200 is a bit overpriced, imo. I don't know anything about dacs tho. For all I know that may be a very good one, but still... was he asking $900 for the speakers? So $300 more for the amp an dac? That just doesn't seem too exciting to me, tho it answers the question to whether they're passive or active.

PS, I think $900 is too steep for the speakers by themselves as well. They're great speakers but I think you can get a brand new pair for ~$1200... I think.

 

[shadyJ]

Well I know if been all over the place. Had an email from the gentleman selling the KEF LS50s. He has a vintage Sony TA-F700es and an SMSL M9 DAC. Price for speakers, Sony and dac including cables is $1200. Thoughts on this vs active speaker setup?


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The speakers are good. They won't get explosively loud though and are limited in dynamic range. If you mostly just listen to modest volumes, that isn't a big deal. The DAC, I dunno. The amp probably is not very good relative to modern amps.

 

[Streak01]

I had less research into buying every house, car, and motorcycle


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[sterling shoote]

I started my “Thoughts” thread with a question about a particular system that I saw for sale that I was intrigued by. I was also realizing the appeal was having “all in one package” for sell so I wasn’t so overwhelmed.

I greatly appreciate the input though maybe a better method is what I’m after.

The catalyst of my search: My wife and I traveled to visit family last week and 2 of the family members have nice systems (one listens to vinyl and the other plays digital off of an iPod). I was impressed by the clarity and richness of the sound (much better than our Bose SoundTouch 30 downstairs or our Audioengine B2 in my upstairs office). I found the system that I posted about online while on vacation

All music right now is via Spotify Premium which indicates 360 kbs though I now realize I’m only using iPhone to stream so need to try laptop instead. During work it’s blues or Jazz. Also love rock as mentioned (AC/DC, Pink Floyd. Talking Heads)

My wife is fine with Bose downstairs so I am looking for an upstairs system to replace the Audioengine. Room is posted in “Thoughts “ thread.

What I don’t want: I already have many many thousands in motorcycles so don’t want another extremely expensive hobby. I am wanting to limit to $1000 or under. Also don’t want to get over engaged in time spent on this which I habitually did with my motorcycle enthusiasm (as a note.. now down to only 2 motorcycles.. wife is happy!!! Had $2000 in the stereo of one of the bikes but fewer choices in that niche market).

So…best bang for $750 to $1000 based on above and Thoughts thread ?


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What makes you think streaming from laptop player will yield better sound than streaming from iPhone?

 

[sterling shoote]

Place you system on your choice of long walls in your attic instead of short wall. In my system speakers are about 8 ft apart and toed in to my listening chair about 8 ft from speakers. This gets me a convincing sound stage.

 

[panteragstk]

Place you system on your choice of long walls in your attic instead of short wall. In my system speakers are about 8 ft apart and toed in to my listening chair about 8 ft from speakers. This gets me a convincing sound stage.View attachment 48500

Nice. Been awhile since you shared a pic of your system.

 

[Streak01]

Thanks for all the help. Decided to get out of my analysis paralysis and purchased:
Sony TA-F700es amp
SMSL M9 DAC
KEF LS50 Speakers
Martin Logan Dynano 500 Sub
Pangea Audio Vulcan Rack
Kanto SP26 Speaker Stands from [mention]alphaiii [/mention]

It’s a start and I haven’t invested a great deal!


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[Streak01]

As a note.. I appreciate and contemplated all input.. as @shadyJ indicates.. the amp and dac are most likely sub par.. already having fits connecting a RCA input only powered sub into a vintage amp .. but even as its a huge improvement over what I have and fit within my meager budget... I've also decided to go this route as it looks like I will be getting a turntable and a pretty good vinyl collection from a relative that is parting w/ alot of his equipment..

I appreciate everyone's time and effort into your input!

 

[lovinthehd]

As a note.. I appreciate and contemplated all input.. as @shadyJ indicates.. the amp and dac are most likely sub par.. already having fits connecting a RCA input only powered sub into a vintage amp .. but even as its a huge improvement over what I have and fit within my meager budget... I've also decided to go this route as it looks like I will be getting a turntable and a pretty good vinyl collection from a relative that is parting w/ alot of his equipment..

I appreciate everyone's time and effort into your input!

Well good luck....just which way are you trying to connect the sub? Trying that pair of adaptor outputs? A thought would be to exchange the sub for one with high level inputs (i.e. speaker level) otherwise....

 

[Streak01]

Well good luck....just which way are you trying to connect the sub? Trying that pair of adaptor outputs? A thought would be to exchange the sub for one with high level inputs (i.e. speaker level) otherwise....

I think that is the best route Right now it's going from Tape Rec out RCA to RCA on sub

 

[lovinthehd]

I think that is the best route Right now it's going from Tape Rec out RCA to RCA on sub

Did you try the adaptor outs? I'm thinking they might be volume controlled whereas your tape would be a fixed output....

 

[Streak01]

Did you try the adaptor outs? I'm thinking they might be volume controlled whereas your tape would be a fixed output....

Omg [mention]lovinthehd [/mention] !!! That sounds a huge amount better


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[Streak01]

So.. since the last post

• purchased russound adp 1.2 speaker level to line level interface - This really did make a difference, but still not enough of a difference
• purchased a svs sb-1000 sub (will sell the Martin Logan) .. the svs has line level inputs so think that will help

For $300, the Sony TA-F700es is much better than anticipated. Most likely will stick with that for awhile as a step up will be quite a bit more $$.. like what I read about Hegel, and may go that direction.

The KEF's sound nice.. think the SVS will compliment them.

The SMSL DAC is so / so.. he threw in the cables, the Martin Logan Dynamo 500, the SMSL M9, and the chromecast audio all for $300, so can't complain. Most likely will research out a decent DAC at some point and look for used..

I know the system has several "weak links" .. I'm very happy w/ the outcome for a small initial investment.. Speakers will be a keeper (well.. except the sub which is actively being replaced) and the rest will get me by until I decide to open the wallet a bit wider.

 

[Pogre]

I think you're off to a decent start, tho I'd recommend a ported sub over sealed every time unless there is absolutely, positively no room for it. You got some really nice speakers to start tho, and that's prolly 75% of the battle. Congrats on the new gear!

 

[lovinthehd]

If the electronics work for your purposes why change? I'd rather have bass management, tho. Doubt you'll find any difference in dacs except for connectivity/features....

 

[Apollo16]

For a nice 2 channel system, I would be looking at a Motu M2 interface combined with something like a Kali IN-8, Presonus Eris E8 XT, or an Adam Audio T8V. All of those speakers should have a good response, and decent bass extension. They are all powered, so you don't need to buy an amp. The Motu has a very high-quality DAC for the price. The advantage of these systems over the passive speaker system that are being suggested is that these will have a more accurate response. They will also have a wider dynamic range. Passive speakers in the same price point can't really compete in terms of sound quality. The disadvantage is this system can't really accommodate an HDMI source if you wanted to hook it up to a TV or something. For that, you would need a DAC that had an HDMI input and good balanced outputs. I am not sure who makes something like that or how much it would cost.

Hi, my first post here. I'm transitioning from long term passive audio to active speakers and really enjoyed the active speaker shoot out video. I've owned lots of Linn gear with a Rega P9 though my primary source is a flac streamer. Recently I acquired pairs of JBL LSR 308P and JBL LSR 305P (both version one). The implementation of the ADC/DAC in the JBLs is beautifully engineered. The JBLs are so tuneful and very revealing. My passive speakers were large and excellent Celestion A3s with improved tweeters and powered by two Linn power amps and a Linn preamp. The moment I plugged in the 308P pair I realised how much better my whole system sounded. It was a revelation. I already owned a pro audio DAC. By sheer chance I also owned a forgotten Art Accessories Phono Plus, never used. It sounded as musical as my Linn preamp between the streamer and my JBLs. The obvious conclusion was to find an audio interface that betters both the Linn and the Art. Floyd Toole and other JBL engineers have mentioned the importance of EQ. I've an ART USBDI coming but after looking at the audio interfaces I reckoned the Motu M2 or M4 is probably a better choice. The pro arena seems to offer better bang per buck and increased functionality. I'd really appreciate any suggested audio interfaces other than the Motu. I'm using a 2.1 system now but intend to buy a pro sub to allow me to connect the monitors in series and move to a 2.2 system. Adding a subwoofer has improved by enjoyment of the music. I think we're at a paradigm shift in audio towards the pro gear.

 

[shadyJ]

Hi, my first post here. I'm transitioning from long term passive audio to active speakers and really enjoyed the active speaker shoot out video. I've owned lots of Linn gear with a Rega P9 though my primary source is a flac streamer. Recently I acquired pairs of JBL LSR 308P and JBL LSR 305P (both version one). The implementation of the ADC/DAC in the JBLs is beautifully engineered. The JBLs are so tuneful and very revealing. My passive speakers were large and excellent Celestion A3s with improved tweeters and powered by two Linn power amps and a Linn preamp. The moment I plugged in the 308P pair I realised how much better my whole system sounded. It was a revelation. I already owned a pro audio DAC. By sheer chance I also owned a forgotten Art Accessories Phono Plus, never used. It sounded as musical as my Linn preamp between the streamer and my JBLs. The obvious conclusion was to find an audio interface that betters both the Linn and the Art. Floyd Toole and other JBL engineers have mentioned the importance of EQ. I've an ART USBDI coming but after looking at the audio interfaces I reckoned the Motu M2 or M4 is probably a better choice. The pro arena seems to offer better bang per buck and increased functionality. I'd really appreciate any suggested audio interfaces other than the Motu. I'm using a 2.1 system now but intend to buy a pro sub to allow me to connect the monitors in series and move to a 2.2 system. Adding a subwoofer has improved by enjoyment of the music. I think we're at a paradigm shift in audio towards the pro gear.

I often recommend MOTU because their drivers are usually pretty solid. The same can't be said of all other budget audio gear, but I don't know what is really good and what isn't. Focusrite and PreSonus might be good, but I don't know for sure. I would stay away from the Behinger audio interfaces. RME can be reliable, but their stuff is pricey and complex for novices.

 

[Apollo16]

I often recommend MOTU because their drivers are usually pretty solid. The same can't be said of all other budget audio gear, but I don't know what is really good and what isn't. Focusrite and PreSonus might be good, but I don't know for sure. I would stay away from the Behinger audio interfaces. RME can be reliable, but their stuff is pricey and complex for novices.

Thanks for the reply. Yes I gathered that Motu was a reliable brand and good with drivers etc. The RME gear is more than my price bracket (and an RME DAC at around £2K wasn't clearly better sounding than an ESI Gigaport HD+ a couple of years ago). My only doubt is how these audio interfaces sound compared to a highly musical passive amplifier. I'll give you an example, I bought a JDS Labs Atom + used to see how it sounded as a preamp. I wasn't surprised that it's not even close to being a good preamp via its RCA. Its measurements as a headphone amp on ASR were excellent but ASR doesn't comment on the sound quality). On ASR everything about the reviews is measurement based but for some parts of the HiFi experience it's about our ears - more art than science. Sure, I believe Floyd Toole when he says words to the effect that good speaker design is about engineering these days. Kali following the work done at JBL isn't an accident.

I'd love to see audioholics do a comparative review between some very good audio interfaces and some very good passive preamps - I believe it would be quite informative and I know from searching that I'm not alone in wanting to know how they compare. The ones I have arriving are sale or return. That a roughly £80 phono stage to USB can compete as a preamp with a Linn preamp shocked me enough to either believe that Art Accessories got lucky or that a much better audio interface will reveal even more of the musical enjoyment to me than a twenty year old passive preamp. I believe the latter. Technology evolves quickly - certain parts of the consumer audio industry change very slowly. It was easier for me to build better high quality servers and streamers than it was to buy them.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the reply. Yes I gathered that Motu was a reliable brand and good with drivers etc. The RME gear is more than my price bracket (and an RME DAC at around £2K wasn't clearly better sounding than an ESI Gigaport HD+ a couple of years ago). My only doubt is how these audio interfaces sound compared to a highly musical passive amplifier. I'll give you an example, I bought a JDS Labs Atom + used to see how it sounded as a preamp. I wasn't surprised that it's not even close to being a good preamp via its RCA. Its measurements as a headphone amp on ASR were excellent but ASR doesn't comment on the sound quality). On ASR everything about the reviews is measurement based but for some parts of the HiFi experience it's about our ears - more art than science. Sure, I believe Floyd Toole when he says words to the effect that good speaker design is about engineering these days. Kali following the work done at JBL isn't an accident.

I'd love to see audioholics do a comparative review between some very good audio interfaces and some very good passive preamps - I believe it would be quite informative and I know from searching that I'm not alone in wanting to know how they compare. The ones I have arriving are sale or return. That a roughly £80 phono stage to USB can compete as a preamp with a Linn preamp shocked me enough to either believe that Art Accessories got lucky or that a much better audio interface will reveal even more of the musical enjoyment to me than a twenty year old passive preamp. I believe the latter. Technology evolves quickly - certain parts of the consumer audio industry change very slowly. It was easier for me to build better high quality servers and streamers than it was to buy them.

Or just realizing electronics' contributions are vastly overrated in the high-end? The ART phono stages have measured well, tho. What is a musical amp, tho?