Salk, Philharmonic, Ascend.... what else?

[Danzilla31]

Oh @Danzilla31 ,
if only you knew...
Instead of building a rig in the greatroom, the WAF just went upside down.
I'm now looking at my office/Neo-Quasi-Man-Space. ~2000'3. This just happened today. *sigh
but in a brighter way of looking at this, I can now consider Philharmonic BMRs as my front 3, and his Mini-Phil's as my surrounds and rears. And I don't need quite so large a subx2. Hell, even if I go Tekton... I can go smaller than I was thinking. Across the board! KEF 750, Monitor Audio 300s. Not writing off the Outlaws, but the FV18's are now dialed back to FV15s.

Oh the joys of love! Lol. Well there are some positives. Like @snakeeyes said that room is going to be a lot easier on your wallet for sure. Now the outlaws are perfect for that room either them or the Rhythmik FV15's will crush that room especially duals. Which gives you better frequency response. So it's not all bad. And you keep your wife happy! Lol

 

[Swerd]

I'm now looking at my office/Neo-Quasi-Man-Space. ~2000'3. This just happened today. *sigh
but in a brighter way of looking at this, I can now consider Philharmonic BMRs as my front 3, and his Mini-Phil's as my surrounds and rears. And I don't need quite so large a subx2.

I hope you end up ordering the BMRs, I've heard them and think they're excellent. If you do, wait until you hear them in your room before you order any sub woofers.

 

[ryanosaur]

Update on day one of speaker auditions:
Was able to listen to KEF 950 against their R900, and also got to hear Martin Logan Motion 40 against 60XT, some of the lower B&W 600/700 lines, and Def Tech BP9080.

If I could play in the KEF R-series sand lot, I might still consider it. They sounded really nice, and much more balanced that the Q950s. Q line is off my list, I think. Impressive overall, but the high end was pretty strong and bordering on tinny compared to the R900. The UniQ on the R900 was still bordering on sharp, but acceptable. Everything else about the R900 performance was pretty flipping magnificent.

Was not impressed by the sound of the B&Ws. Very well could've been the room, but there was no gravitas to their sound.

The DefTech was interesting because of the built in active woofer. It was like tasting 5 different chardonnays and being a little palate fatigued, and then you get to one with some residual sugar that perks everything up... The extra bass was weird compared to everything else in the room without it. I get why people like them, I think, but they sounded a little scattered to me. (BiPole design in a bad room?)

The Motion 40 was nice against everything else. Maybe a little boxy sounding with a slight boomy quality, but not in a bad way... just especially strong when switching from a B&W.

And then there was the Motion 60XT. I. Am. Impressed. Even with my iPod classic as the source material. Reviews have criticized them as being super revealing and not a good pairing with compressed digital source material. They sounded delightful. With everything I threw at them. Jazz, Orchestral, Rock, male vocal with piano, female vocal, Gorillaz dub album Laika Come Home (even stopped at that point and asked him to confirm no sub was on (none were), and then I had him turn on the SB16 in the room... WHEEEE!, and then off, not there for the sub.) Hip hop that doesn't sound on lesser systems, and hip hop with hidden complexities in the production. These speakers just chewed it up and spit it out like it was nothing. Impressed. And they move on to the short list!

Cheers all!

 

[snakeeyes]

Update on day one of speaker auditions:
Was able to listen to KEF 950 against their R900, and also got to hear Martin Logan Motion 40 against 60XT, some of the lower B&W 600/700 lines, and Def Tech BP9080.

If I could play in the KEF R-series sand lot, I might still consider it. They sounded really nice, and much more balanced that the Q950s. Q line is off my list, I think. Impressive overall, but the high end was pretty strong and bordering on tinny compared to the R900. The UniQ on the R900 was still bordering on sharp, but acceptable. Everything else about the R900 performance was pretty flipping magnificent.

Was not impressed by the sound of the B&Ws. Very well could've been the room, but there was no gravitas to their sound.

The DefTech was interesting because of the built in active woofer. It was like tasting 5 different chardonnays and being a little palate fatigued, and then you get to one with some residual sugar that perks everything up... The extra bass was weird compared to everything else in the room without it. I get why people like them, I think, but they sounded a little scattered to me. (BiPole design in a bad room?)

The Motion 40 was nice against everything else. Maybe a little boxy sounding with a slight boomy quality, but not in a bad way... just especially strong when switching from a B&W.

And then there was the Motion 60XT. I. Am. Impressed. Even with my iPod classic as the source material. Reviews have criticized them as being super revealing and not a good pairing with compressed digital source material. They sounded delightful. With everything I threw at them. Jazz, Orchestral, Rock, male vocal with piano, female vocal, Gorillaz dub album Laika Come Home (even stopped at that point and asked him to confirm no sub was on (none were), and then I had him turn on the SB16 in the room... WHEEEE!, and then off, not there for the sub.) Hip hop that doesn't sound on lesser systems, and hip hop with hidden complexities in the production. These speakers just chewed it up and spit it out like it was nothing. Impressed. And they move on to the short list!

Cheers all!

So the more expensive speakers sounded best?

 

[ryanosaur]

So the more expensive speakers sounded best?

Yeah... Go Fig.
I had already considered those as high-budget possibilities. I'm hoping I might find a place that has them in a slightly better room than the local Magnolia/Best Buy. But the room they had the 60XTs in was their "nice" room of the two.
The place I heard the KEFs has a pair of ELAC UniFis (might be the Slims) I might go back to hear against the Kef Q as a reference point. I could maybe build an ELAC Adante bookshelf rig, but the only test result I've seen makes me question that as an option against the BMR-MiniPhil system I can build through Dennis.
The Q 950 was nice in everything but those highs. So I do have hope that I'll find a delicious pair or three of other speakers at a lower price point to choose from. IF... I go that route.
I would still prefer towers to bookshelf or standmounts, and 3-way design to 2- or 2.5-way. But that's just me.
Going to Marin for a different experience today. Didn't get a chance to verify, but they had the Monitor Audios there a month ago. Also supposed to have Canton and KEF (again, but good to reference against).

 

[ryanosaur]

Wow. Monitor Audio. Wow. The Silver 300 sounded almost (if not) as good as the Martin Logan Motion 60XT... for a grand less per pair! The Silver 500 was beautiful.
The KEF quirkiness did not exist in terms of weird highs.
Only Canton standmounts available on site, so I didn't listen. Same KEF R900 from my experience yesterday.

Hell, they even had MA Gold and Platinum in house! If only I had 14Large to drop on a pair.

Anyway, the room was quirky AF. But everything I played sounded, well... right. Male vocals weren't chesty, Piano sounded like piano. The best Jazz drummers sounded like I was riding the the cymbals with them. Saxophones whaled. Fiona Apple gave me chills when her voice came in on Paper Bag. I even dug into a tuba-as-bass cut with Blues For Ben from Stanton Moore's All Kooked Out. And no sub needed here, though I coulda asked.

Sh!t this is fun.

And for every time I heard I should check out KEF, when taking about these MA Silvers... Nah. Though I haven't heard them, I suspect KEF Reference series is where its at. Between the Q950 and R900 yesterday, I was feeling fatigue. Today, 2 hours in, I wanted to keep going.

More to come when I can, but for now, in the preliminary round:
3: Martin Logan Motion 60XT
2: Monitor Audio Silver 300
1: Monitor Audio Silver 500

 

[snakeeyes]

Wow. Monitor Audio. Wow. The Silver 300 sounded almost (if not) as good as the Martin Logan Motion 60XT... for a grand less per pair! The Silver 500 was beautiful.
The KEF quirkiness did not exist in terms of weird highs.
Only Canton standmounts available on site, so I didn't listen. Same KEF R900 from my experience yesterday.

Hell, they even had MA Gold and Platinum in house! If only I had 14Large to drop on a pair.

Anyway, the room was quirky AF. But everything I played sounded, well... right. Male vocals weren't chesty, Piano sounded like piano. The best Jazz drummers sounded like I was riding the the cymbals with them. Saxophones whaled. Fiona Apple gave me chills when her voice came in on Paper Bag. I even dug into a tuba-as-bass cut with Blues For Ben from Stanton Moore's All Kooked Out. And no sub needed here, though I coulda asked.

Sh!t this is fun.

And for every time I heard I should check out KEF, when taking about these MA Silvers... Nah. Though I haven't heard them, I suspect KEF Reference series is where its at. Between the Q950 and R900 yesterday, I was feeling fatigue. Today, 2 hours in, I wanted to keep going.

More to come when I can, but for now, in the preliminary round:
3: Martin Logan Motion 60XT
2: Monitor Audio Silver 300
1: Monitor Audio Silver 500

Nice! What are you trying next?

 

[CB22]

Is there anything else I should check out before I make a final decision? Thoughts, suggestions?

Bryston Model T - but very very not cheap.

 

[ryanosaur]

Bryston Model T - but very very not cheap.

Ya. I just looked across the railroad tracks at that park, and some kid threw a rock at me. HA! Assuming that's a pair, that IS my budget. Of course, I looked at the biggest nicest tower I could find. Very very not bad.

 

[CB22]

Ya. I just looked across the railroad tracks at that park, and some kid threw a rock at me. HA! Assuming that's a pair, that IS my budget. Of course, I looked at the biggest nicest tower I could find. Very very not bad.

Ya, just thought I’d throw it out there. My guess is that the Phil 3s are the best bang for buck. You’d get a great speaker at a very reasonable price.

 

[snakeeyes]

The Salks have absolutely beautiful cabinets if you are going into the deep end of the pool....

 

[ryanosaur]

Nice! What are you trying next?

Well, Snake, there are the ELACs I mentioned before. Very local. I'm still hoping I can stumble on some Revel Concerta2 or Paradigms. I need to revisit the San Francisco and Peninsula stores and see what I can find of note there. I WILL be going to Utah and listening to Tektons, and I hope to go to LA for Ascend Sierra Towers, and maybe visit Hsu if there's time.
I would hope I could hear the BMRs too, just don't know if that's in the cards. After chatting with Dennis a few times, I'm very excited at the prospect and potential his speakers represent. But flying to Maryland is much different that a shuttle flight to LA or SLC.

 

[snakeeyes]

Well, Snake, there are the ELACs I mentioned before. Very local. I'm still hoping I can stumble on some Revel Concerta2 or Paradigms. I need to revisit the San Francisco and Peninsula stores and see what I can find of note there. I WILL be going to Utah and listening to Tektons, and I hope to go to LA for Ascend Sierra Towers, and maybe visit Hsu if there's time.
I would hope I could hear the BMRs too, just don't know if that's in the cards. After chatting with Dennis a few times, I'm very excited at the prospect and potential his speakers represent. But flying to Maryland is much different that a shuttle flight to LA or SLC.

Maybe Dynaudio. Also maybe a Beryllium tweeter from Focal. Just trying to fill in what you have not mentioned already.

 

[ryanosaur]

The Salks have absolutely beautiful cabinets if you are going into the deep end of the pool....

Dude. Sick. Nuff said. Would love to fox wit dat! But the Song3s are all over my budget by a wee bit at least, and the SS and Veracity line... well. Oof.

That's why I'm so excited about the possibility of Philharmonics!

Just in theory here. 3 BMRs for LCR. Then 2 pair of Mini-Phils for the 7.0... throw in some Ryhmik F12 (2 or 3) or 2 FV15HP? Or 2 VTF15Hmk2s? Or 2-3-4 SVS PC2000s? You'd come to my place for Wagner or Star Wars night?

 

[Swerd]

… But the Song3s are all over my budget by a wee bit at least, and the SS and Veracity line... well. Oof.

That's why I'm so excited about the possibility of Philharmonics!

Just in theory here. 3 BMRs for LCR. Then 2 pair of Mini-Phils for the 7.0... throw in some Ryhmik F12 (2 or 3) or 2 FV15HP? Or 2 VTF15Hmk2s? Or 2-3-4 SVS PC2000s? You'd come to my place for Wagner or Star Wars night?

You should work with that theory – make it reality. Seriously .

Get at least the front BMRs and listen to them for a few weeks before making any moves on sub woofers. Those BMRs really go down to 34 Hz. I don't know what speakers you are now used to, but you should learn what BMRs sound like in your room, without any bass supplement, before you spend big money on subs. Despite the size of your room, I wonder if you've overestimated how much sub woofage you need.

 

[ryanosaur]

You should work with that theory – make it reality. Seriously
Get at least the front BMRs and listen to them for a few weeks before making any moves on sub woofers. Those BMRs really go down to 34 Hz. I don't know what speakers you are now used to, but you should learn what BMRs sound like in your room, without any bass supplement, before you spend big money on subs. Despite the size of your room, I wonder if you've overestimated how much sub woofage you need.

The sub is for Low Organ and percussion more than anything else. 80/20 music/ht. I do want that hit for the occasional movie... and my video games.
The MA Silver500s are 30Hz on the low end, 32Hz for the Silver 300s and the ML Motion 60XT are 35Hz. Considering what they did with my music in auditions, I have no doubt about the capabilities of the BMRs.

I'll have the opportunity to plan my next moves during the week as I do a little travel. And in a couple weeks when I visit Tekton and Ascend, I'll be able to decide on bringing the BMRs in for the short audition.
The other consideration stated by several people now, that once the lady hears my rig, she's gonna want it moved to the main room. I don't think the Philharmic rig will handle that 8000'3 space as well as the towers. Time will tell. Thanks Swerd!

 

[Swerd]

The sub is for Low Organ and percussion more than anything else. 80/20 music/ht. I do want that hit for the occasional movie... and my video games.

A low organ stop, at 16 Hz, is tough to reproduce with impact. Good luck. It definitely costs big $ to get that. I was surprised at how good organ music sounds like with just the 1st harmonic overtone, at 32 Hz.

The MA Silver500s are 30Hz on the low end, 32Hz for the Silver 300s and the ML Motion 60XT are 35Hz. Considering what they did with my music in auditions, I have no doubt about the capabilities of the BMRs.

Different speaker makers have different rating standards, especially with sensitivity and bass extension. When comparing ratings from different companies, they might be estimated by similar methods, or they might not.

I'll have the opportunity to plan my next moves during the week as I do a little travel. And in a couple weeks when I visit Tekton and Ascend, I'll be able to decide on bringing the BMRs in for the short audition.

I look forward to your impressions. In the past, I found I liked Ascend's speakers, but not the Tektons. Of course, your mileage may vary…

The other consideration stated by several people now, that once the lady hears my rig, she's gonna want it moved to the main room. I don't think the Philharmic rig will handle that 8000'3 space as well as the towers. Time will tell. Thanks Swerd!

Please remember that room volume matters for sub woofers, but listening distance matters more for loud speakers at any frequency above roughly 200-300 Hz.

What are the overall dimensions of your 8000 ft³ room? And what are the distances between the front 3 speakers and the seating?

 

[ryanosaur]

What are the overall dimensions of your 8000 ft³ room? And what are the distances between the front 3 speakers and the seating?

room size is 47.5' x 17.5'... sloped ceiling from 8-12'H, R-L from LP. I calculated 8312.5'3
speakers about 9'apart in that room, with LP 9-10' back.
Cheers!

 

[ryanosaur]

I look forward to your impressions. In the past, I found I liked Ascend's speakers, but not the Tektons. Of course, your mileage may vary…

Almost overlooked this... Pls tell me about your Tekton experience. Which speakers, your thoughts, etc. Thank you!

 

[Swerd]

room size is 47.5' x 17.5'... sloped ceiling from 8-12'H, R-L from LP. I calculated 8312.5'3
speakers about 9'apart in that room, with LP 9-10' back.

47.5' x 17.5' really is a big room. But your sloped ceiling may actually be to your advantage. Bass cancellations are caused by reflections of sound waves off of parallel surfaces that arrive at the listening position out of phase with the sound waves coming directly from the speaker. Your ceiling is not parallel to the floor. That might help.

Your listening distance of roughly 9-10' is similar to what many others have. In my much smaller family room about 23' x 17' (with 9' ceiling, about 3500 ft³), I have the same listening distance between the sofa and my front 3 speakers. I heard a pair of BMRs in that room and they had no trouble at all in achieving volumes higher than I wanted to hear.