Salk Ascend better the Big ones

[ematthews]

How is it that small companies like Ascend and Salk make speakers that constantly rate better than big companies like Revel? With all the money and tools at their disposal, how is it that Harmon/ Samsung don’t offer a speaker for 3 grand that can review better or sound better. Maybe it’s just Dave and Jim have knowledge that betters the competition. To me it’s something I have a hard time understanding.

 

[j_garcia]

Almost zero advertising/marketing, no dealers to mark up, no overhead of large companies, etc.... 100% of their R&D goes into the speaker, not "features" that large companies need to have for the mass market.

 

[ematthews]

Almost zero advertising/marketing, no dealers to mark up, no overhead of large companies, etc.... 100% of their R&D goes into the speaker, not "features" that large companies need to have for the mass market.

You know.. I didn't even think of that. Thanks. I was looking at the Salk Song 3 and that really ticks a lot of points that I am looking for. They even have options that have even deeper bass that the standard Song.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

rate better than big companies like Revel

Rate better by whom?

Some forum members? All forum members? Everyone else not on the forum?

It seems most people still own brands made by the big companies - Revel, B&W, KEF, RBH, Paradigm, PSB, Klipsch, DefTech, GoldenEar, etc.

In terms of pricing, because of the big markups, a lot of times you can get big discounts on the big brand speakers.

But there are a lot of factors that go into buying speakers.

If it has exactly what you are looking for, then it's the right speaker for you, regardless of the forum ratings or whether it is from a small or big company.

Just look on eBay, Audiogon, Craigslist, and other classifieds for used speakers that people once loved, but now want to get rid of. You'll see every brand of speakers (big and small company brands) listed at one point or another.

 

[jh112]

You know.. I didn't even think of that. Thanks. I was looking at the Salk Song 3 and that really ticks a lot of points that I am looking for. They even have options that have even deeper bass that the standard Song.

seeing your equipment list i seethat you have the Ascend towers , so are you looking at song3 out of just upgraditis or is it something else?

 

[John Parks]

I found this on the very website we are on: sorry, I can't post links yet - search for 2017 products of the year on the Audioholics website...

The Revel F36 took home Product of the Year honors on two other sites as well. This was for their $2000 offering - I can only imagine how the $3500 Performa3 F206 sounds.

A quick perusal of Crutchfield, Music Direct and Audio Advisor brought up some SERIOUS speakers in the $3K and under range from Martin Logan (the Motion 60XL is a monster!) Polk Audio, Sonus Faber, Definitive Technology, Focal, Monitor Audio and even Vandersteen (I still love the 2ce - with the right set up, they are hard to beat - but remember when they were far south of $2K). I think the sweet spot for ID speaker companies is $1-2K. Above and below that price range, the economics of scale come in to play. An ID company would be hard pressed to produce a high quality speaker (sound quality, materials quality - the whole package) under, say, $750 where someone like Elac or KEF can do just that. Over the $2000 mark (and especially at $3K, which is the premise of your OP) the larger companies can throw a lot design know-how and fabrication know-how into a product.

Now, don't get me wrong: I love the idea of ID products and pricing. I had the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 (with NrT upgrade) for eight years and believe the original version was the best sub $1K monitor on the market (the NrT brings it to $1150 and the Sierra-2 is at $1450). This is also not to say that the Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower (with RAAL tweeter) or the Salk Song3 are not incredible speakers - I am sure they are. I, for one, would love to see a blind shootout of the big boys vs the boutique brands vs the ID brands, all in the same price range. I know Audioholics has done it in the past, but a rematch may be in order...

 

[Steve81]

Rate better by whom?

Not to take anything away from Ascend or Salk, but that's an important question IMHO, along with how the comparison took place. Listening to a variety of speakers in a variety of environments doesn't exactly yield apples to apples comparisons. Even comparing in ones own home has to be done carefully, else minor differences in setup, volume, etc. can have a big impact on perception, never mind things like expectation bias when you've got a forum full of people telling you how super awesome Speaker X is.

 

[ematthews]

Rate better by whom?

Some forum members? All forum members? Everyone else not on the forum?

It seems most people still own brands made by the big companies - Revel, B&W, KEF, RBH, Paradigm, PSB, Klipsch, DefTech, GoldenEar, etc.

In terms of pricing, because of the big markups, a lot of times you can get big discounts on the big brand speakers.

But there are a lot of factors that go into buying speakers.

If it has exactly what you are looking for, then it's the right speaker for you, regardless of the forum ratings or whether it is from a small or big company.

Just look on eBay, Audiogon, Craigslist, and other classifieds for used speakers that people once loved, but now want to get rid of. You'll see every brand of speakers (big and small company brands) listed at one point or another.

Excellent view point. Maybe it's the Honeymoon phase owners have. It's always easy to get warm and fuzzy with the small companies when you love their product and service. That's a good point to see what's for sale. I did this with a few Canton owners and all of them have since sold them for one reason or another.

 

[ematthews]

seeing your equipment list i seethat you have the Ascend towers , so are you looking at song3 out of just upgraditis or is it something else?

Actually looking for bigger towers. I posted this in other threads. Not really looking to get rid of my Ascends. They would be moved to a small more intimate room.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Excellent view point. Maybe it's the Honeymoon phase owners have. It's always easy to get warm and fuzzy with the small companies when you love their product and service. That's a good point to see what's for sale. I did this with a few Canton owners and all of them have since sold them for one reason or another.

Every guy must have his own journey.

You read about other's people's journeys, but you've got to have you own.

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time and money.

After you buy 14 pairs of speakers, you get the idea.

If I were a billionaire, my house would be so big and I would have one room each for RBH 8T (Gene's speakers), Focal Grand Utopia, KEF Muon, Revel Salon2, B&W 800D3, Dynaudio, etc.

 

[ematthews]

Rate better by whom?

Some forum members? All forum members? Everyone else not on the forum?

It seems most people still own brands made by the big companies - Revel, B&W, KEF, RBH, Paradigm, PSB, Klipsch, DefTech, GoldenEar, etc.

In terms of pricing, because of the big markups, a lot of times you can get big discounts on the big brand speakers.

But there are a lot of factors that go into buying speakers.

If it has exactly what you are looking for, then it's the right speaker for you, regardless of the forum ratings or whether it is from a small or big company.

Just look on eBay, Audiogon, Craigslist, and other classifieds for used speakers that people once loved, but now want to get rid of. You'll see every brand of speakers (big and small company brands) listed at one point or another.

To address the first question. Just from all of the reading I do on equipment seem to point towards these Salks having a positive feedback.. I can't seem to find many negatives with anything I read about them or Ascend. But when I read about other big brands there is always some type on CON in the feedback or review. It's more of an overall conclusion that I came up with. Not a fact.

 

[ematthews]

Every guy must have his own journey.

You read about other's people's journeys, but you've got to have you own.

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time and money.

After you buy 14 pairs of speakers, you get the idea.

I may end up surpassing you but I am trying to have an end product purchase very soon.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

To address the first question. Just from all of the reading I do on equipment seem to point towards these Salks having a positive feedback.. I can't seem to find many negatives with anything I read about them or Ascend. But when I read about other big brands there is always some type on CON in the feedback or review. It's more of an overall conclusion that I came up with. Not a fact.

Again, over time you'll see enough people getting RID of their Salk SoundScape, Revel Salon2, Linkwitz Orion, B&W 800D, KEF Blade, and every single brand. Nothing is immune.

Just because you don't see the "NEGATIVE" doesn't mean it is NOT there! It may be between the lines.

People get rid of their speakers because they can live without the speakers and because the speakers do NOT sound better than everything else.

Hopefully you'll find that "identity".

Or maybe you'll get lucky and win the lottery and just buy everything.

 

[wrunow]

Actually looking for bigger towers. I posted this in other threads. Not really looking to get rid of my Ascends. They would be moved to a small more intimate room.

I have the Song3-a and just got the Ascend RAAL towers for my theater. They are both really nice, but a little different. I haven't compared them side by side, nor do I plan to. I wanted a 3 way RAAL speaker in my theater, the Salk's were too big.

If you're going to order the Salk's, the wait is a bit (4-6 months), but the service is very good and even the standard finished cabinets are stunning. I think the Accuton mid upgrade is definitively worth it.

 

[charmerci]

I would say that they are generally a better deal because of reasons stated in post #2. However, those reasons are somewhat offset because the big boys have more money for R&D and reduced costs through manufacturing by volume so it's probably not as big a difference. However, the gap has become smaller over the years due to powerful computers (and it's spread of knowledge via the net) and the lower costs of manufacturing and accessibility of the parts, so now the small guy can now keep up.

 

[snakeeyes]

I have the Song3-a and just got the Ascend RAAL towers for my theater. They are both really nice, but a little different. I haven't compared them side by side, nor do I plan to. I wanted a 3 way RAAL speaker in my theater, the Salk's were too big.

If you're going to order the Salk's, the wait is a bit (4-6 months), but the service is very good and even the standard finished cabinets are stunning. I think the Accuton mid upgrade is definitively worth it.

How do you like the RAAL Ascends for your theater room? Any issues with it? The big box manufactures seem to use different tweeters. Sorry if this is a bit off topic.

 

[wrunow]

How do you like the RAAL Ascends for your theater room? Any issues with it? The big box manufactures seem to use different tweeters. Sorry if this is a bit off topic.

I like them very much. What I'm really looking forward to is the Horizon center which is arriving on Wednesday.
Contact Dave at Ascend, or check the Ascend forums, lots of info there.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I would say that they are generally a better deal because of reasons stated in post #2. However, those reasons are somewhat offset because the big boys have more money for R&D and reduced costs through manufacturing by volume so it's probably not as big a difference. However, the gap has become smaller over the years due to powerful computers (and it's spread of knowledge via the net) and the lower costs of manufacturing and accessibility of the parts, so now the small guy can now keep up.

It's actually harder now than it used to be due to the greatly increased sourcing of speakers from Asia. That's increased the competition at the "lower" end of the market (less than, say, $3,000).

 

[snakeeyes]

I like them very much. What I'm really looking forward to is the Horizon center which is arriving on Wednesday.
Contact Dave at Ascend, or check the Ascend forums, lots of info there.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

I’ll check out their forum but I would expect that they are biased. . The Phils and Revel Concerta2 and Ascends are all on my radar (to name a few) but I have plenty of time to make the right decision. Just learning a bit first before I choose the critical front 3. Goal is 5.1.4 or 5.2.4

 

[wrunow]

I’ll check out their forum but I would expect that they are biased. . The Phils and Revel Concerta2 and Ascends are all on my radar (to name a few) but I have plenty of time to make the right decision. Just learning a bit first before I choose the critical front 3. Goal is 5.1.4 or 5.2.4

I think you'll get honest answers from Dave at Ascend, Jim Salk, or Dennis Murphy at Philharmonic.

They all make great use of the RAAL tweeter. I don't think you can go wrong with any of these companies.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk