SACD and multi-channel questions

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Unfortunately for me, I procrastinated in getting an Oppo 205 a couple of years ago.

I have been searching and have found articles about 3 Sony players, but they're older models.

Sony does list SACD for current models, but does not mention multi-channel capability.

Do you know which models support multi-channel?
I've got S-3700 and S-5100 models that do (and an Oppo 203). Haven't looked at newer ones but generally would look in the manual for details as to what it can provide. Believe I've seen mentioned the X700 and X800 do but not sure. Only reason I use SACD is for the multichannel discs.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
SACD was not a hit. Thankfully, Dolby Atmos Music is here to save the day.;) Or, do you not want to hear Ozzy Osbourne's voice coming down from the rafters like a vampire bat?
Yeah, I gave up on MCH Audio a long time ago.

But I'll bite for Atmos Music because - hells yeah - I want to hear voices and music from the heavens above. :D
 
9397SVTs

9397SVTs

Audioholic
I am not sure what you are asking.

Your player will only output 2 channel analog and not multichannel.

To get multichannel from that player, then you need a pre/pro or a receiver with a DSD decoder. A lot do not have that.

You do not have to use auto Eq programs you can turn them off.

As far as quality, you will not hear a difference between CD and SACD on 2 channel. The dynamic range of SACD is greater and there is the odd disc where this counts and the CD is more dramatic as a result.

For most multichannel SACDs the surrounds are only reproducing ambiance. However there are some that have antiphonal music.

The next issue, is that some SACDS need the rear backs and not the surrounds to play. For instance Pentatone have released many of the old quadraphonic recordings on SACD. This requires the right and left fronts and the rear backs to operate. Also many European SACDs need the front three and rear backs.

If you think SACD is a mess, you would not be wrong. That is why it is pretty much a dead format. Audio only BD has never really caught on, but it should. BPO discs are produced in this format. That is more flexible, as the mix engineer can decide what to put on any given channel.

So I have an SACD player connected via multichannel analog outs so the rear backs play and not the surrounds. I have a Sony BD player that plays SACDs also that is connected via HDMI, and uses the pre/pro's DSD decoder. In that case you get front three and surrounds always.

It is all an interesting exercise, especially if, like I do, I have a lot of legacy equipment. Is it really useful and practical no. SACD was basically misbegotten from that start. It all started as a sop to audiophools who were too stupid to understand PCM. No one masters, or even records in DSD any more. It is a huge pain to work with. So for sometime, it has all been PCM and conversion to DSD right at the end at mastering.

It has been a pity it ever saw the light of day, as it basically has set back multichannel audio, and probably permanently. As far as I'm concerned DSD (SACD) has been one of the audiophools most egregious sins.
So, since I don't have a 7.1 system, the quadraphonic music will only come out of the front 3(L/C/R)?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I've yet to use a multich SACD that didn't use the surrounds rather than rear surrounds (and I do have a 7ch system) but I don't use the analog outputs of my player specifically to do that either. Surrounds may not be quite the same thing as quad playback, tho, depending on speaker positioning. I do have several that are based on old quad recordings, too.
 
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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Chief
So, since I don't have a 7.1 system, the quadraphonic music will only come out of the front 3(L/C/R)?
The "quadraphonic" I have do not use the centre channel at all, and I have several older classical recordings re-released on SACD as well as others (jazz, etc) released the last decade. Since they are multi-layer SACD you could choose the stereo mix instead of using a processor to downmix or upmix for centre channel.

Edit: I used to think that the different layers of a SACD (hybrid or not) are just downmixing of the multi-channel version, but I have a decade or so old recording where the CD layer have mixed in other studio instruments that the SACD two/multi did not have.
 
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S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I’m not sure you have HDMI or multichannel analog inputs on your gear you listed.

If you had HDMI inputs on the AVR then a Sony BDPS6700 (Blu-ray player) or a Sony UBPX700 (4K UHD player), which have SACD multichannel playback via HDMI would work.

If you had multichannel analog inputs on the AVR there may be some high priced players that support analog multichannel outputs.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Sony does list SACD for current models, but does not mention multi-channel capability.

Do you know which models support multi-channel?
All players that read SACDs play multi-channel recordings. Most SACDs are multi-channel recordings, except a few which were transfers from an older 2 channel stereo source.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
All players that read SACDs play multi-channel recordings. Most SACDs are multi-channel recordings, except a few which were transfers from an older 2 channel stereo source.
Then why are there so few multich SACDs compared to 2ch? Brief searches on various sites have always yielded far more 2ch than multichannel sacds....
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Then why are there so few multich SACDs compared to 2ch? Brief searches on various sites have always yielded far more 2ch than multichannel sacds....
Not the situation with classical music or jazz discs.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I've yet to use a multich SACD that didn't use the surrounds rather than rear surrounds (and I do have a 7ch system) but I don't use the analog outputs of my player specifically to do that either. Surrounds may not be quite the same thing as quad playback, tho, depending on speaker positioning. I do have several that are based on old quad recordings, too.
I think all my mch SACDs use the surround channels as well.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I think all my mch SACDs use the surround channels as well.
I think what TLS was referring to was just perhaps speaker positioning to replicate the old quad setups (and assume that's why he deliberately setup his player's multich analog output to use rear surrounds vs surrounds), altho I don't think rear surrounds are typically better positioned for such now that I think about it...both type of speaker and surrounds in my system would be better than the rear surrounds....
 
9397SVTs

9397SVTs

Audioholic
All players that read SACDs play multi-channel recordings. Most SACDs are multi-channel recordings, except a few which were transfers from an older 2 channel stereo source.
I don't want to make that assumption. My Marantz SA8005 plays SACD, yet I'm told here that it doesn't support multi-channel.

In searching, several BD players support SACD, yet don't specify multi-channel SACD. SO, how does one know which to get?
 
9397SVTs

9397SVTs

Audioholic
I’m not sure you have HDMI or multichannel analog inputs on your gear you listed.

If you had HDMI inputs on the AVR then a Sony BDPS6700 (Blu-ray player) or a Sony UBPX700 (4K UHD player), which have SACD multichannel playback via HDMI would work.

If you had multichannel analog inputs on the AVR there may be some high priced players that support analog multichannel outputs.

I can't find info that shows multi-channel capability with the newer X700/X800 models.

It seems that the 3 Sony players are old models and will need to be found used.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I don't want to make that assumption. My Marantz SA8005 plays SACD, yet I'm told here that it doesn't support multi-channel.

In searching, several BD players support SACD, yet don't specify multi-channel SACD. SO, how does one know which to get?
Actually your player does support multich in a way....it can downmix the multich content and output it (only) via analog 2ch. I usually look at a player's manual in a pdf format and search for multi-channel....
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I can't find info that shows multi-channel capability with the newer X700/X800 models.

It seems that the 3 Sony players are old models and will need to be found used.
I just looked at the manual for the 800, as above someone already confirmed the 700, and searched multi-channel and page 24 confirms.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
I don't want to make that assumption. My Marantz SA8005 plays SACD, yet I'm told here that it doesn't support multi-channel.

In searching, several BD players support SACD, yet don't specify multi-channel SACD. SO, how does one know which to get?
All SACDs are multi-channel. Some have 5 channels surround , some have 4 channel surround, some have 3 front channel stereo. Some have only a 2 channel stereo layer but they are a minority. As I already mentioned in a previous post, all SACD players will play any SACD with all the recorded channels.
 
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9397SVTs

9397SVTs

Audioholic
All SACDs are multi-channel. Some have 5 channels surround , some have 3 front channel stereo. Some have only a 2 channel stereo layer but they are a minority.

It seems that I'm the one confused here.

I am not considering 2 channel stereo as multi-channel. I am applying multi-channel capability to 5.1 and the quadraphonic.

It seems that some of the revered SACD's are of the 5.1 variety. This is what I would like to experience.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
All SACDs are multi-channel. Some have 5 channels surround , some have 4 channel surround, some have 3 front channel stereo. Some have only a 2 channel stereo layer but they are a minority. As I already mentioned in a previous post, all SACD players will play any SACD with all the recorded channels.
Do you have a source for this claim about all SACDs are multi-ch? I only bought a couple non-multichannel SACDs and they seem most definitely 2ch only. Why was there a special SACD logo for multichannel created to distinguish 2.0 discs from the multichannel discs?
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Do you have a source for this claim about all SACDs are multi-ch? I only bought a couple non-multichannel SACDs and they seem most definitely 2ch only. Why was there a special SACD logo for multichannel created to distinguish 2.0 discs from the multichannel discs?
Two-channel stereo is multichannel. To my knowledge, no monophonic SACD was ever produced for obvious reasons. No, there has never been a special logo to distinguish 2 channel from multi-channel tracks. The first SACDs which were released were in the 5 channel surround format, and the hybrid format came a bit later to enable them to be played on any CD or DVD player, using a second layer with 2 channel stereo 16 bit/44.1 kHz tracks.

Most SACDs released were hybrid. To my knowledge, the only exceptional ones which only played on a SACD player were issued on the SONY label. I have at least one of them. It's the Miles Davis' Kind of Blue disc. I have many SACDs, most contain classical music and it's possible that I might have another straight SACD.
 
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