Room EQ yes or no or sparingly

R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#1
Couldn’t find a thread on the subject but I’ve been experimenting quite a bit with the Audyssey App limiting EQ to 300/500hz. My room is strictly for Movies and TV, no music. It’s treated with acoustic panels and natural absorption from a thick shag rug in between my soundstage and fabric sectional with 2 ottomans, also have thick blackout curtains. Curious how many skip or limit EQ to just the bass for movies. Do you use features such as Dynamic EQ? Since BD’s are EQ’d for near field if you’re using EQ do you use a house curve that rolls off the highs?
 
L

laurelkurt

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
4
#2
Those are all questions I'd like to know about myself. I use Audissey Xt32 on a new, old, Integra DHC 80.2 processor. I doubt this Audissey App would work for my outdated preamp. I listen to music, as opposed to movies. I definitely do like what Dynamic EQ does with music. I'm considering some sort of acoustic treatments/absorbtion as well. My bass sounds great, but my highs are a bit harsh.

I mostly like what Audissey does for my sound for the low frequencies, but I'm not so sure about the highs.
 
Last edited:
R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#3
Those are all questions I'd like to know about myself. I use Audissey Xt32 on a new, old, Integra DHC 80.2 processor. I doubt this Audissey App would work for my outdated preamp. I listen to music, as opposed to movies. I definitely do like what Dynamic EQ does with music. I'm considering some sort of acoustic treatments/absorbtion as well. My bass sounds great, but my highs are a bit harsh.

I mostly like what Audissey does for my sound for the low frequencies, but I'm not so sure about the highs.
I’ve been using Audyssey for so many years with DEQ ON that it’s taking more time to get used to it limited to the bass regions on DEQ off. I like how both sound, DEQ off is obviously less impactful. When I limit MultiEQ to 500hz my Klipsch RP’s are definitely clearer with a crisper top end.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,792 3
#4
I actually had a decent experience with Aud... but I still turned it off. I used it to set my distance and levels, I played around with the app... edited my target curve... tried it flat... with/without DEQ... with Mid-range compensation (or whatever its called)... and did this over a few weeks. End of the day, what worked best for me was off. YMMV.
Couple things: EXPERIMENT!
Try it on, then switch to pure direct, and back. see what you think on and off.
Try it with DEQ, Flat, Reference... all the permutations.
Try it with the FR limited lower than 300... I would experiment as low as 150. (Without better testing gear, there is no way to know for certain what the Schroeder Frequency is in your room, but usually between 150-200Hz.) Anyway, you want to avoid altering things much above that frequency... which if it is 150m 300 is a full octave above. Might not seem like a lot, but every little bit can matter. :)

So that's it for audyssey. Do what sounds best to you.

Now, it's my turn to soapbox for a moment. :p I'm more about music, and frankly, I want my music to sound the best that it can. But sound is sound, so for me, if music sounds good, so will a movie. If you really want to expose flaws in the system, and put audyssey to the test: DO IT WITH TUNES! It doesn't have to be HiRes, Lossless, MQA, etc.
Play some Bob Marley... Three Little Birds, for example. If you like some Jazz, play a Dexter Gordon cut, like Tanya from One Flight Up, or something like Miles with the Quintet. Maybe you're a DeadHead: Black Peter from Workingman's Dead. Vocals with Piano is really good too: I like Nick Cave's Love Letter and Tori Amos' Northern Lad.
Just listen, and play around a little with the settings. Stretch it out over a couple weekend afternoons. ;) But listen, and try different things. If you find a setting you really like on a movie, try it on music, and vice versa. Ideally, the music sounds RIGHT, and I'd be willing to bet, if you can find that sweet spot, you'll be happier still!

Parting thoughts: I love Jazz. I'm a saxophonist. So I use that as a guidepost. If Joe Lovano's horn is filling my ears and the upright bass is full and balanced, and the drums and cymbals are crisp and clean... I know things are pretty well in order. If my @$$ is vibrating from the bass, something is off. That's not to say, you can't adjust the bass as wanted for the usage, but if you learn the differences, you'll have a better sense of control. (Check out the cut Evolution on his album From The Soul.)
This is why I don't use DEQ, for example. My subs are powerful, especially for my room. I don't need that boost. :)
I mentioned that mid-range compensation: I played with that on and off with Aud. After I turned Aud off, I activated my Graphic EQ and rebuilt that effect, but very slight, only about -1.5dB @2kHz, and -.5 at the neighboring toggles... so I made a very gentle swale instead of a deep crater right at 2kHz: it worked! My room is a bit lively, and this tamed that area where fatigue can be common.

At the end of the day, its your system, in your room... and your ears. Learning how to listen, critically, is the best way to dial in your system. Once you can hear what's going on, maybe take the step towards REW and a UMIK and do accurate room measurements. Just depends on how deep you want to dive! But most important: HAVE FUN doing it!

Cheers!
 
R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#5
I actually had a decent experience with Aud... but I still turned it off. I used it to set my distance and levels, I played around with the app... edited my target curve... tried it flat... with/without DEQ... with Mid-range compensation (or whatever its called)... and did this over a few weeks. End of the day, what worked best for me was off. YMMV.
Couple things: EXPERIMENT!
Try it on, then switch to pure direct, and back. see what you think on and off.
Try it with DEQ, Flat, Reference... all the permutations.
Try it with the FR limited lower than 300... I would experiment as low as 150. (Without better testing gear, there is no way to know for certain what the Schroeder Frequency is in your room, but usually between 150-200Hz.) Anyway, you want to avoid altering things much above that frequency... which if it is 150m 300 is a full octave above. Might not seem like a lot, but every little bit can matter. :)

So that's it for audyssey. Do what sounds best to you.

Now, it's my turn to soapbox for a moment. :p I'm more about music, and frankly, I want my music to sound the best that it can. But sound is sound, so for me, if music sounds good, so will a movie. If you really want to expose flaws in the system, and put audyssey to the test: DO IT WITH TUNES! It doesn't have to be HiRes, Lossless, MQA, etc.
Play some Bob Marley... Three Little Birds, for example. If you like some Jazz, play a Dexter Gordon cut, like Tanya from One Flight Up, or something like Miles with the Quintet. Maybe you're a DeadHead: Black Peter from Workingman's Dead. Vocals with Piano is really good too: I like Nick Cave's Love Letter and Tori Amos' Northern Lad.
Just listen, and play around a little with the settings. Stretch it out over a couple weekend afternoons. ;) But listen, and try different things. If you find a setting you really like on a movie, try it on music, and vice versa. Ideally, the music sounds RIGHT, and I'd be willing to bet, if you can find that sweet spot, you'll be happier still!

Parting thoughts: I love Jazz. I'm a saxophonist. So I use that as a guidepost. If Joe Lovano's horn is filling my ears and the upright bass is full and balanced, and the drums and cymbals are crisp and clean... I know things are pretty well in order. If my @$$ is vibrating from the bass, something is off. That's not to say, you can't adjust the bass as wanted for the usage, but if you learn the differences, you'll have a better sense of control. (Check out the cut Evolution on his album From The Soul.)
This is why I don't use DEQ, for example. My subs are powerful, especially for my room. I don't need that boost. :)
I mentioned that mid-range compensation: I played with that on and off with Aud. After I turned Aud off, I activated my Graphic EQ and rebuilt that effect, but very slight, only about -1.5dB @2kHz, and -.5 at the neighboring toggles... so I made a very gentle swale instead of a deep crater right at 2kHz: it worked! My room is a bit lively, and this tamed that area where fatigue can be common.

At the end of the day, its your system, in your room... and your ears. Learning how to listen, critically, is the best way to dial in your system. Once you can hear what's going on, maybe take the step towards REW and a UMIK and do accurate room measurements. Just depends on how deep you want to dive! But most important: HAVE FUN doing it!

Cheers!
Yeah I’ve tried every combo as well. When you shut it off did you bump your subs up or do you prefer a Flat bass?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,792 3
#6
My rig is set up pretty neutral. My speakers are considered neutral/accurate. I dialed my subs in to blend musically with those. So... pretty flat was my goal. Like I suggested to you, I adjust the trim according to the situation. So, electronica or a movie might get a bump, but otherwise, I run the levels pretty much as Audyssey set them. (Though, I did take a little off the gain after running Audyssey as they were too hot.)
 
R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#7
My rig is set up pretty neutral. My speakers are considered neutral/accurate. I dialed my subs in to blend musically with those. So... pretty flat was my goal. Like I suggested to you, I adjust the trim according to the situation. So, electronica or a movie might get a bump, but otherwise, I run the levels pretty much as Audyssey set them. (Though, I did take a little off the gain after running Audyssey as they were too hot.)
Nice, yeah I let XT32 do it’s thing, limit MultiEQ to 300hz, turn off DEQ. I leave levels as is. Using the app vs AVR I get better results with my subs. AVR always sets them at -8. Using the app -5. Took some time to get used to DEQ off but after some time everything sounds more balanced and clear. Really happy with the app,
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,707 9 1
#8
This is why I don't use DEQ, for example. My subs are powerful, especially for my room. I don't need that boost. :)
DEQ is not about whether your sub is powerful or not, it is about attempting to match the average person's sensitivity change to low frequencies at spl below "ref" level. If you are interested in learning more about Audyssey's DEQ, the following linked FAQ pages should help.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level?page=5

and take a look of the Fletcher-Munson curves that have been posted around here before:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-calibrate-loudness.2161/

Note that Audyssey claimed: "Fletcher-Munson curves were developed for telephone headsets and they are not right for speakers in a room."

If doing things manually works well for you that's great. I prefer auto because it works for me, especially with the Editor app that allows manually tweaking without negating the other things that imo Audyssey does a good job. So I fully agree with your suggestion that the OP try different ways and even different permutations. To me, Denon and Marantz has been equipping their gear with Audyssey for many years, I highly doubt that they would keep doing this unless their own experiments and measurements could justify the additional cost.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,707 9 1
#9
Nice, yeah I let XT32 do it’s thing, limit MultiEQ to 300hz, turn off DEQ. I leave levels as is. Using the app vs AVR I get better results with my subs. AVR always sets them at -8. Using the app -5. Took some time to get used to DEQ off but after some time everything sounds more balanced and clear. Really happy with the app,
You do know if you listen at or near reference level DEQ should have 0 or negligible effect right? Many people like what DEQ does, and obviously some don't. For me, I can't stand reference level, and I rarely get close to vol 0, even -10 would be much too loud for me, so I can't do without DEQ.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,353 6 1
#10
Yeah I’ve tried every combo as well. When you shut it off did you bump your subs up or do you prefer a Flat bass?
Yeah, most of us bump the subs by anywhere from 2-5db.

In the app though, you can do more of a house curve with the curve editor. Go to the sub, and set a shelf at say 20hz or 25hz and raise it like 3db. See how that works. I believe that’s better than just radiotherapy sub channel since it creates a nice slope.

Pic is just for reference only.
As you can see I selected two points to illustrate a curve. Depending on your subs and listening habitsI would set the low shelf for 20hz and maybe up to 5db. Then it’s like Deq, but all the time!
 
R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#11
You do know if you listen at or near reference level DEQ should have 0 or negligible effect right? Many people like what DEQ does, and obviously some don't. For me, I can't stand reference level, and I rarely get close to vol 0, even -10 would be much too loud for me, so I can't do without DEQ.
I do. I’ve been using DEQ for close to 8 years in 4 AVR’s. I turned it off since using the app 3 months ago. I listen anywhere between -15db - -8db for movies (depending if my wife is with me). These days I prefer accuracy.
 
R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#12
Yeah, most of us bump the subs by anywhere from 2-5db.

In the app though, you can do more of a house curve with the curve editor. Go to the sub, and set a shelf at say 20hz or 25hz and raise it like 3db. See how that works. I believe that’s better than just radiotherapy sub channel since it creates a nice slope.

Pic is just for reference only.
As you can see I selected two points to illustrate a curve. Depending on your subs and listening habitsI would set the low shelf for 20hz and maybe up to 5db. Then it’s like Deq, but all the time!
Thanks, yeah I tried adding a bit of a boost like you did. I’ve since left if Flat, I focussed my efforts on sub placement and it’s worked out in my room. Subs blends perfectly not calling attention to themselves and hit hard when they would.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,353 6 1
#13
Thanks, yeah I tried adding a bit of a boost like you did. I’ve since left if Flat, I focussed my efforts on sub placement and it’s worked out in my room. Subs blends perfectly not calling attention to themselves and hit hard when they would.
That was just an example. I actually use my minidsp to set my house curve. Sub placement is definitely rule number one. I can appreciate your feelings as I prefer my bass natural, but I do like my couch to shake when appt too!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,707 9 1
#14
I do. I’ve been using DEQ for close to 8 years in 4 AVR’s. I turned it off since using the app 3 months ago. I listen anywhere between -15db - -8db for movies (depending if my wife is with me). These days I prefer accuracy.
Well then in theory you need to turn DEQ on for better accuracy. You can still select L/R bypass if you feel Audyssey off gives you better accuracy. I have plotted graphs to compare DEQ on and off and I could see it that it appears to be doing thing right. It is hard to know what the facts are without plotting a bunch of graphs, at the minimum.
 
R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#15
That was just an example. I actually use my minidsp to set my house curve. Sub placement is definitely rule number one. I can appreciate your feelings as I prefer my bass natural, but I do like my couch to shake when appt too!
Ha! Yeah I love bass too. I’ll be putting in a 3rd later this year. I’m thinking a PC 2000 so I can place it behind my sectional along my side wall.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,792 3
#16
DEQ is not about whether your sub is powerful or not, it is about attempting to match the average person's sensitivity change to low frequencies at spl below "ref" level. If you are interested in learning more about Audyssey's DEQ, the following linked FAQ pages should help.
Well said Peng! Didn't mean to cut out the true effect of DEQ, rather to point out that it isn't always necessary. ;) I rarely turn my system up over about -15dB/-10dB. Even at -30, though, I experience enough LF love in my room that I simply don't require that boost.
If doing things manually works well for you that's great. I prefer auto because it works for me, especially with the Editor app that allows manually tweaking without negating the other things that imo Audyssey does a good job.
+1 :) No regrets about spending the $20 on the app. It's a little clunky, but so is the Marantz 2016 AVR app. (And I do use the Audio/Subwoofer_Adjust to tweak my levels, but situational dependent, rather than across-the-board.
Now when my main speakers get here, I'll play with Audyssey again, as well as learn REW. I'm going to have a completely different situation, I imagine, once that happens. Considering the Phil 3s are pretty much full range, I'll be able to treat my room more to Geddes technique. It will be interesting to see what effect having 4 LF sources in my room does compared to just 2!
 
R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#17
Well then in theory you need to turn DEQ on for better accuracy. You can still select L/R bypass if you feel Audyssey off gives you better accuracy. I have plotted graphs to compare DEQ on and off and I could see it that it appears to be doing thing right. It is hard to know what the facts are without plotting a bunch of graphs, at the minimum.
When I say accurate I mean all levels at the same level, I would rather hear what the mixer intended and I don’t think the mixer had DEQ in mind. DEQ definitely has its advantages and I really do think it’s a great tool for folks like yourself who listen at very low volume. I’ve always had some reservations about EQ and have decided to use room treatments and proper placement rather than change the character of my speakers. I did try DEQ on with MultiEQ limited to 300hz but the issue was it bumping the high frequencies. It didn’t sound right since my speakers already articulate, it sounded too harsh. My HT has never sounded so good.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,792 3
#18
When I say accurate I mean all levels at the same level, I would rather hear what the mixer intended and I don’t think the mixer had DEQ in mind. DEQ definitely has its advantages and I really do think it’s a great tool for folks like yourself who listen at very low volume. I’ve always had some reservations about EQ and have decided to use room treatments and proper placement rather than change the character of my speakers. I did try DEQ on with MultiEQ limited to 300hz but the issue was it bumping the high frequencies. It didn’t sound right since my speakers already articulate, it sounded too harsh. My HT has never sounded so good.
The point was made to possibly experiment again with bypass mains, and also, to consider dropping the frequency limit to somewhere between 150 and 200 where the Schroeder Frequency is. ;)
That said, if you’re happy, then you’re happy! :)
 
R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#19
Another thing I noted about using MultiEQ full range and DEQ is it drowns out my Atmos modules. I always felt underwhelmed with my modules and now I realize with DEQ on the surrounds are so loud they drowned them out. Once I turned off DEQ and limited EQ they are much clearer, the effect works much better now.
 
R

RTG

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#20
The point was made to possibly experiment again with bypass mains, and also, to consider dropping the frequency limit to somewhere between 150 and 200 where the Schroeder Frequency is. ;)
That said, if you’re happy, then you’re happy! :)
Yep, tried that. 300hz is the sweet spot for room.
 

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