Rolling Stone article on elections

C

cyberbri

Banned
This was researched for 4 months and is backed by a mountain of evidence and interviews/quotes (all evidence/stories are noted in the article):
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

If that's too hard to swallow (despite the overwhelming mountain of evidence), watch a whistleblower testify at a congressional hearing in 2004 about being asked to write hackable code for electronic voting machines and programs to insure 51/49 totals, how large discrepancies between voting tabulations and exit polls means something's up -- which actually happened, in a number of states, right where these paper-less machines were being used - note that one month later, when Exit Polling in Ukraine showed the challenger winning in their country's election for Prime Minister, yet Final Results showed the encumbant winning, the Bush Administration cried foul, declaring the disparity between the Exits and the Finals was a prima facea indication of electoral fraud -- etc. etc.
Here's the testimony:
http://www.iwilltryit.com/fixed1.htm



All this has been documented for the past few years at great blogs like this:
http://www.bradblog.com/


Here are excerpts from the RS article:
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002896.htm#More

a short snippet
Republicans derided anyone who expressed doubts about Bush’s victory as nut cases in “tinfoil hats,” while the national media, with few exceptions, did little to question the validity of the election. The Washington Post immediately dismissed allegations of fraud as “conspiracy theories,” and The New York Times declared that “there is no evidence of vote theft or errors on a large scale.” But despite the media blackout, indications continued to emerge that something deeply troubling had taken place in 2004.

Nearly half of the 6 million American voters living abroad never received their ballots – or received them too late to vote – after the Pentagon unaccountably shut down a state-of-the-art Web site used to file overseas registrations. A consulting firm called Sproul & Associates, which was hired by the Republican National Committee to register voters in six battleground states, was discovered shredding Democratic registrations. In New Mexico, which was decided by 5,988 votes, malfunctioning machines mysteriously failed to properly register a presidential vote on more than 20,000 ballots. Nationwide, according to the federal commission charged with implementing election reforms, as many as 1 million ballots were spoiled by faulty voting equipment – roughly one for every 100 cast.

The reports were especially disturbing in Ohio, the critical battleground state that clinched Bush’s victory in the Electoral College. Officials there purged tens of thousands of eligible voters from the rolls, neglected to process registration cards generated by Democratic voter drives, shortchanged Democratic precincts when they allocated voting machines and illegally derailed a recount that could have given Kerry the presidency. A precinct in an evangelical church in Miami County recorded an impossibly high turnout of ninety-eight percent, while a polling place in inner-city Cleveland recorded an equally impossible turnout of only seven percent. In Warren County, GOP election officials even invented a nonexistent terrorist threat to bar the media from monitoring the official vote count.

Maybe now with the Rolling Stone article, this will get the attention it deserves, and deserved back in 2004.


Part of the article's exit poll analysis:
http://www.rollingstone.com/photos/gallery/10467024/was_the_2004_election_stolen/photo/1/large
 
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Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
1. "The Man" is not going to be threatened by anything Rolling Stone talks about. The genius's there can't even figure out what a good album sounds like.
2. If the government wants candidate A to win, candidate A will win.
3. Even without fancy "cheating machines", theres always the electoral-college, aka. "'F' the voters, we'll put whoever we want in office".
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
I agree.
But this article was written by Robert F Kennedy, Jr., and gets the issue into the mainstream press. If it takes an article in Rolling Stone to wake people up, that's fine by me. ;) The media needs to cover this more, and more people need to be made aware. We need serious election reform, especially when these hackable machines are still being snuck in under the radar (and offered to "volunteers" to hold onto for a few days and deliver before elections (Craig's List job posting)).

Our democracy is greatly threatened by this, and we need people to start standing up and making changes.


From the additional sources page:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10463875/was_the_2004_election_stolen_sources_and_commentary
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and ROLLING STONE spent four months investigating the 2004 election in Ohio. To assemble a conservative estimate of the number of voters in the state who were prevented from casting ballots or did not have their votes counted, we interviewed dozens of election officials, pollsters, candidates, voter advocates and political scientists, and reviewed reports by federal officials, statisticians, voter advocates and journalists.

Kennedy is president of Waterkeeper Alliance and writes frequently about issues affecting American democracy. His story ''Deadly Immunity'' appeared in RS 977/978. Additional research and reporting for this piece were provided by contributing editor Tim Dickinson, who covers politics for ROLLING STONE, and writes National Affairs Daily, where he will be exploring the article in greater depth in the coming days.

Below is a list of sources and additional materials on the 2004 election.
 
B

Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
Bwahahahaha....

Ya gotta love those liberals who dream up conspiracy theories to rationalize why the keep losing elections. Maybe if they stood for anything of substance, they would wouldnt have been evicted from power in the House, Senate, WH...etc, etc..etc...etc.....
 
warhummer

warhummer

Junior Audioholic
Wait...what's that sound? It sounds like a dead horse being beaten (again).

I suppose if you cite enough sources, you can convince people of anything. The problem I have is that alot of the references cited in the Rolling Stone article (notice I said alot...not all) were unsubstantiated snippets of news. You can pick and choose little quotes or sound bites (in Michael Moore's case) and shape just about any argument you want to.

One question. Ohio was lost to Bush by approximately 118,000 popular votes. Why was there no reference to voting irregularities in states where Kerry won by a slim margin (Wisconsin-11,000 votes, Delaware-28,400 votes, Minnesota-100,000 votes)?

I think if you dig deep enough you can find a problem just about anywhere and can shape an argument that would benefit both Democrats and Republicans. Sure there's the occasional overzealous capaign worker who will resort to "foul play" but you're going to get that on both sides of the aisle.
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
warhummer said:
I suppose if you cite enough sources, you can convince people of anything. The problem I have is that alot of the references cited in the Rolling Stone article (notice I said alot...not all) were unsubstantiated snippets of news. You can pick and choose little quotes or sound bites (in Michael Moore's case) and shape just about any argument you want to.

One question. Ohio was lost to Bush by approximately 118,000 popular votes. Why was there no reference to voting irregularities in states where Kerry won by a slim margin (Wisconsin-11,000 votes, Delaware-28,400 votes, Minnesota-100,000 votes)?

I think if you dig deep enough you can find a problem just about anywhere and can shape an argument that would benefit both Democrats and Republicans. Sure there's the occasional overzealous capaign worker who will resort to "foul play" but you're going to get that on both sides of the aisle.

Exit polls didn't match up anywhere close to the accepted margin, in areas with these hackable voting machines.







Do you have exit poll irregularity data for those areas you mention?
This is more than a little "foul play."


Testimony of a whistleblower at a congressional hearing of other voting machine fraud, about being asked to write hackable code for electronic voting machines and programs to insure 51/49 totals, how large discrepancies between voting tabulations and exit polls means something's up. -- etc. etc.
VIDEO OF THE TESTIMONY:
http://www.iwilltryit.com/fixed1.htm

This is also a little more than "foul play."


Note that one month after the elections, when Exit Polling in Ukraine showed the challenger winning in their country's election for Prime Minister, yet Final Results showed the encumbant winning, the Bush Administration cried foul, declaring the disparity between the Exits and the Finals was a prima facea indication of electoral fraud. If exit polls work in the Ukraine and can be used to find election fraud, why the double standard for America, the world’s (current) greatest democracy?
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
Buckeye_Nut said:
Bwahahahaha....

Ya gotta love those liberals who dream up conspiracy theories to rationalize why the keep losing elections. Maybe if they stood for anything of substance, they would wouldnt have been evicted from power in the House, Senate, WH...etc, etc..etc...etc.....

Nice biting satirical post. I dig it. ;) Couldn't have written it better myself.



Let me ask you this.
Would you use a bank with ATMs that give no receipts and have been proven over and over again to be easily hackable (transferring funds with no way to trace it)? Would you trust that bank, even when reports come out of a large number of people's money coming up missing?

Why are they afraid to have paper trails with the voting machines? Why are they afraid to have voting machines that can't be hacked? Can't they win elections without cheating?
 
warhummer

warhummer

Junior Audioholic
I love polls

So you can guarantee that every person who voted actually participated in an exit poll? Were there exit pollers at every library, school, or city hall in the ENTIRE UNITED STATES that was being used for voting? I seem to remember blowing by one that was being conducted at the polling place I voted at. I likened them to telemarketers that call you at dinner...I ignore them.

Actually, I must confess I was part of a conspiracy to purposely not talk to exit pollers, thereby giving the Democratic campaign strategists a false sense of security during election day. This was to keep the people who would have voted for Kerry from actually voting, because they thought they had the election in the bag. Genius I tell you.

I also would like some insight into my question about any other voting irregularities in the states that went for Kerry. As usual, logical questions get brushed aside into a rush to find voter fraud in the state of (insert state that Bush won here).

You would think that a group of people who so masterfully orchestrated voting fraud on a national level (2000 and 2004 by my count) would be better at foreign policy...hmmmm.....
 
warhummer

warhummer

Junior Audioholic
cyberbri said:
Why are they afraid to have paper trails with the voting machines? Why are they afraid to have voting machines that can't be hacked? Can't they win elections without cheating?
1) Yes.

2) Show me a hack-proof computer that someone hasn't cracked (that doesn't belong to the NSA).

3) Nope. That's the American way.
 
warhummer

warhummer

Junior Audioholic
Whoops...

cyberbri said:
Why are they afraid to have paper trails with the voting machines?

Sorry, I didn't read the first question in its entirety.

Amended answer:

1) Paper kills trees. That would be against the environmentally-friendly credo of the Democratic Party. Wait a minute! You would think that some Republican would have ensured his paper-mill CEO buddy got a sole-source contract to provide paper for the voting machines! Only it would be special paper that only prints votes for Bush. So why are they afraid to have paper trails?
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
There are accepted tolerances for exit polls. These areas went way beyond those tolerances. And these were specific areas where these "suspect" voting machines were as well.

Besides, if exit poll irregularities are good enough for the Bush admin to speak up about Ukraine elections, why do we ignore them here?

"When Exit Polling in Ukraine showed the challenger winning in their country's election for Prime Minister, yet Final Results showed the encumbant winning, the Bush Administration cried foul, declaring the disparity between the Exits and the Finals was a prima facea indication of electoral fraud."


Please, watch this testimony:
http://www.iwilltryit.com/fixed1.htm

And please read the middle image I posted about the 12 counties with the large irregularities.


If you have information on exit poll irregularities in other areas where Kerry won, I would love to see it. I am for transparency and honest, fair elections. I frequently visit bradblog.com and the other sites to keep tabs on all of the voter machine updates. This is about the foundation of what makes us a democracy, not liberals/conservates, no matter how much people like Buckeye_Nut try to change it into a partisan issue, change the subject, and attack the messenger while ignoring the facts.
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
warhummer said:
Sorry, I didn't read the first question in its entirety.

Amended answer:

1) Paper kills trees. That would be against the environmentally-friendly credo of the Democratic Party. Wait a minute! You would think that some Republican would have ensured his paper-mill CEO buddy got a sole-source contract to provide paper for the voting machines! Only it would be special paper that only prints votes for Bush. So why are they afraid to have paper trails?
:) :p
Why wouldn't they want a paper trail on the votes? Hmm. I'll have to get back to you on that one.
 
warhummer

warhummer

Junior Audioholic
Hold on I'm on a roll here...

Ohio...

72,000 disenfranchised due to "avoidable errors" So if you're too stupid to read the directions and accidently make a mistake, some poll worker is supposed guess at your intentions?


30,000 purged from voter rolls because the didn't vote in the two previous elections? Sorry, kids, that's state law. Because you didn't feel the need to exercise your hard-won right to vote before now, your registration expired.

5,000 turned away by GOP challengers. Like I said, assuming this is accurate, there's always some idiots who don't know how to play fair.

Do you have exit poll irregularity data for those areas you mention? No, I'm still looking for some conspiracy blogs/websites to cite references from. If only the media conglomerates would look into this one.
 
warhummer

warhummer

Junior Audioholic
cyberbri said:
There are accepted tolerances for exit polls. These areas went way beyond those tolerances. And these were specific areas where these "suspect" voting machines were as well.

Besides, if exit poll irregularities are good enough for the Bush admin to speak up about Ukraine elections, why do we ignore them here?

"When Exit Polling in Ukraine showed the challenger winning in their country's election for Prime Minister, yet Final Results showed the encumbant winning, the Bush Administration cried foul, declaring the disparity between the Exits and the Finals was a prima facea indication of electoral fraud."


And please read the middle image I posted about the 12 counties with the large irregularities.


If you have information on exit poll irregularities in other areas where Kerry won, I would love to see it. I am for transparency and honest, fair elections. I frequently visit bradblog.com and the other sites to keep tabs on all of the voter machine updates. This is about the foundation of what makes us a democracy, not liberals/conservates, no matter how much people like Buckeye_Nut try to change it into a partisan issue, change the subject, and attack the messenger while ignoring the facts.
I voted in that little blue county just north of Warren County in Dayton. Trust me when I say that it doesn't surprise me at all that Bush won in the western part of the state. He only lost Montgomery county by a slim margin, a fact glossed over to help support the voter-fraud argument.

The exit poll thing doesn't pass the statistical sniff test. These areas were targeted by pollers for the very reason that both campaigns focused so heavily on them during the run-up to election day. The electoral vote count was significant and you had a population that was relatively split 50-50 as far as early election polls went (I said the "p" word).

If you really wanted to convice me of a problem, you would have to show statistically significant data from the blue states. If I remember, other states that were ahead in the popular vote for Bush early on in the night ended up going for Kerry (Delaware for sure and I think Wisconsin). No polling data from there.

Statistical theory also says that with the extremely large voter turn-out you would get a correspondingly larger report of voting problems (i.e. long lines, registration problems, stupid...I mean confused voters). Bottom line, one needs more information than that being picked as the low-hanging fruit to feed the spectre of organized voter fraud.

Oh yeah, the Ukraine elections also had huge protests and garned the predictable state-department reponse concerning their exit polls. We're not a country who has spent the past 50+ years under communist rule where the ruling class has had a strangle-hold on all things "election". Call me gullible but I would tend to believe that voter fraud was a little more plausible in the Ukraine.
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
warhummer said:
If only the media conglomerates would look into this one.
There's a long list of things, including quite a backlog, that I wish they would look into... ;)
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
warhummer said:
Call me gullible but I would tend to believe that voter fraud was a little more plausible in the Ukraine.

Some people will do anything to get/keep their power. With voting machines that are hackable and no paper trail, you'd be crazy to not think there's something up. Even if nothing did happen in 2004, we still need to do something about the voting machines.


There's vast amounts of evidence that the (touchscreen) machines being used nowadays, from multiple companies, are easily hacked. Here's a good place to start:
http://www.bradblog.com/

Watch this as well:
http://www.iwilltryit.com/fixed1.htm


At least they're doing something about it in Colorado:
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002895.htm -- page has links to organizations, etc.

BREAKING: Voters File Lawsuit to Halt Purchase, Use of All Touch-Screen Voting Machines in Colorado!
Complaint Seeks to Stop Use of Electronic Voting Systems Made by Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S and Hart InterCivic
Broadest State Filing Against Voting Machines Yet Filed, Follows Similar Suits in California, Arizona, New Mexico

Complaint Seeks to Stop Use of Electronic Voting Systems Made by Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S and Hart InterCivic
Broadest State Filing Against Voting Machines Yet Filed, Follows Similar Suits in California, Arizona, New Mexico

In a complaint said to be the broadest yet filed to halt the rise of the electronic voting machines, a non-partisan group of voters have announced they are filing suit...

In a complaint said to be the broadest yet filed to halt the rise of the electronic voting machines, a non-partisan group of voters have announced they are filing suit today in Colorado to stop the purchase and use of Direct Recording Electronic ("DRE" or touch-screen) voting machines in the state, The BRAD BLOG can now reveal.

The suit, being filed today in Denver District Court and modeled after similar actions filed previously in California, Arizona and New Mexico, calls for an immediate halt to the use of touch-screen machines made by all four of the major electronic voting machine vendors currentlly doing business in Colorado.

The group, advised and organized by VoterAction.org contends that voting machines made by Diebold, Sequoia Voting Systems, Election Systems and Software Inc. (ES&S) and Hart InterCivic "have a well-documented history of problems with security, reliability, verifiability, and disability access."

According to a press release issued this morning (posted in full below) by the Denver law firm of Wheeler Trigg Kennedy LLP the machines "are easily hacked and compromised, and have a history of operational problems which have disrupted elections across the country."


Defendants named in the suit include Colorado Secretary of State Gigi Dennis and the Boards of county commissioners in 9 different CO counties.

"The Secretary of State's Office has failed to issue rules setting minimum standards for security of these systems. The election rules permit the DRE manufacturers to simply tell the State that their machines are secure," said Wheller Trigg Kennedy attorney Paul Hultin in the release. "Worse, the Secretary is not following the law. No certification reports required by law have been prepared even though these systems have been certified for months and counties are preparing to use these dubious systems in the upcoming election," he says.

"Some of the security risks with these machines are so high that it is unconscionable that their manufacturers, who have known of the problems for years, have not taken the necessary steps to correct them," says Univesity of Iowa computer science Professor Dr. Doug Jones, who is one of several experts who will be offering testimony in the case.

"The Help America Vote Act is being turned on its head, weakening the integrity of our elections in the rush to purchase untrustworthy DRE computerized voting systems," said Lowell Finley, Co-counsel for the Colorado voter plaintiffs, election law expert, and Co-director of Voter Action, according to the release. "The sanctity of our elections is too important to turn over to private corporations which operate without accountability. There are better and more secure options available, such as optical scan-paper balloting."


The complete filing is now online here [PDF]...

We're busy covering the Robert Kennedy article on Election 2004 in Rolling Stone today (we'll have extended excerpts on BRAD BLOG shortly), so we'll leave you with the complete press release below for more details on this developing case...
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
More on Ohio elections - stickers over Kerry entry reported by many:

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Ohio_recount_volunteers_allege_electoral_tampering_0601.html

This is just the first part of the news story:
Ohio recount volunteers allege electoral tampering, legal violations and possible fraud

Larisa Alexandrovna
Published: Thursday June 1, 2006

Print This | Email This

Serious new election tampering allegations have emerged from an Ohio county, where witnesses allege that stickers were placed on presidential election ballots, RAW STORY has learned.

Several volunteer workers in the Ohio recount in Clermont County, Ohio have prepared affidavits alleging serious tampering, violations of state and federal law and possible fraud. They name the Republican chief of Clermont’s Board of Elections Daniel Bare and the head of the Clermont Democratic Party Priscilla O’Donnell as complicit in these acts.

These volunteers, observing the recount on behalf of the Greens, Libertarians and Democrats, assert that during the Dec. 14, 2004 hand recount they noticed stickers covering the Kerry/Edwards oval, whereas the Bush/Cheney oval seemed to be “colored in.”

Some witnesses state that beneath the stickers, the Kerry/Edwards oval was selected. The opti-scan ballots were then fed into the machines after the hand recount.

Allegations of ballot tampering in Ohio – which decided the outcome of the presidential election by some 100,000 votes – find particular resonance in Clermont, one of three Ohio counties which saw the biggest increases in votes for Bush from 2000 to 2004. The other counties were Butler and Warren; Warren County had a lockdown after an alleged terror threat that the FBI later denied.

These counties “increased their support of Bush by only a few percentage points each,” the Cincinnati Enquirer reported Monday. “But in the raw numbers of votes, they made the difference.”

In a sworn affidavit, Clinton County Democrat Stephen Spraley, a retired plumber from Springboro, Ohio, saw the stickers on at least ten opti-scan ballots. Spraley brought this issue to the attention of Deputy Director for the Clermont Board of Elections, Kathy Jones, who is a Democrat. He says he was rebuffed by the Republican Director of the Board of Elections Daniel Bare.

“I had asked Kathy Jones – where did these stickers come from and who put them on the ballots?” Spraley said. “She was interrupted by Dan Bare, and he told me that the board would have another meeting and that is where questions about ballots would be determined.”

Spraley had one of the stickered ballot pulled as an example for the board meeting. Board members, including Bare, O’Donnell and Jones, as well as volunteer workers and county employees, discussed this particular ballot, he says.

“A Republican board member said the stickers were put on election night,” Spraley added. He says Clermont’s Democratic Party chief O’Donnell “said she knew nothing about the stickers.”

Another observer, University of Cincinnati math professor Bob Drake, corroborated Spraley’s allegations. “One person offered that [the stickers] must have been placed on the ballots by someone at the precinct on Election Day, and that no one could be responsible for that… Everyone, including the Executive Director Danny Bare, denied having ever seen them before or having any knowledge of them,” Drake said.

Eric L. Gifford, a Green Party volunteer who was also present at both the recount and the board meeting said that “Mrs. O’Donnell proceeded to nominate this ballot for a vote, and none of the other members would second the vote. The ballot was then counted for Bush.”

Jeanine Tater, a California resident who volunteered to observe in Ohio on behalf of the Democratic Party, stated in her affidavit “a Kerry witness named Steve [Spraley], discovered white oval shaped stickers on some of the ballots during the 3 percent hand count. I personally observed these stickers during the machine recount.”
 
warhummer

warhummer

Junior Audioholic
cyberbri said:
Some people will do anything to get/keep their power. With voting machines that are hackable and no paper trail, you'd be crazy to not think there's something up. Even if nothing did happen in 2004, we still need to do something about the voting machines.


There's vast amounts of evidence that the (touchscreen) machines being used nowadays, from multiple companies, are easily hacked.
I think there needs to be some serious proof before we head down that (hacked) road.

Yes, I do think that you can't blindly trust electronic voting machines, but that it where I end it. Fix the problem or at least mitigate it (read: paper trail) and move on. Beyond that, I think some form of identification is acceptable in order to prevent voter fraud. It happens to be that those least likely to comply are the less fiscally fortunate among us. Somehow requiring to show that you are who-you-say-you-are gets twisted into voter disenfranchisement. I suppose in an ideal world, this would be unecessary, but then I refer back to the Ukraine elections where ballot boxes can be stuffed with fake or inelligibile votes. Unfortunately, asking someone if they're registered now becomes "bullying" or "intimidation".
 
warhummer

warhummer

Junior Audioholic
My hands are cramping...

I don't think I've ever kept at a thread like this before...:(
 
B

Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
If I was cyber, I wouldn't harp too much on the exit polls because bogus exit polls showing kerry winning in a landslide stood to benefit him, and him alone.

If you know anything about the historical cause/effect that exit polls have, you'd know that history has taught us that exit polls that show a landslide favorite, favor the guy leading in the exit polls. The true result is those who planned to vote for the projected loser, lose heart and figure it's a lost cause...... so more of them dont bother to vote. That's what history has taught us.

If you follow this stuff closely, you'd know that the bogus exit polls were a huge story on election day, and Kerry was the person who stood to gain by the bogus results. Luckily, some in the media recognized they were completely bogus by early afternoon east coast time because several of the projected margins were so unrealistic, they knew those results couldnt be possible. By late afternoon, exit polls were being completely ignored by some due to the crazy and unrealistic results earlier in the day coming from the North East. I wont go so far to say it was a vast conspiracy to fix the election(like liberals love to do), but kerry was the person who stood to gain by the "Mistakes" made by the pollsters. Luckily for GWB, it was discovered fairly early in the day, and the word got out that they were false.
 
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