Rolling Stone article on elections

C

cyberbri

Banned
I bet you didn't even bother to read any of the article...


From the first page, just so you don't actually have to click on anything...

I. The Exit Polls
The first indication that something was gravely amiss on November 2nd, 2004, was the inexplicable discrepancies between exit polls and actual vote counts. Polls in thirty states weren't just off the mark -- they deviated to an extent that cannot be accounted for by their margin of error. In all but four states, the discrepancy favored President Bush.(16)

Over the past decades, exit polling has evolved into an exact science. Indeed, among pollsters and statisticians, such surveys are thought to be the most reliable. Unlike pre-election polls, in which voters are asked to predict their own behavior at some point in the future, exit polls ask voters leaving the voting booth to report an action they just executed. The results are exquisitely accurate: Exit polls in Germany, for example, have never missed the mark by more than three-tenths of one percent.(17) ''Exit polls are almost never wrong,'' **** Morris, a political consultant who has worked for both Republicans and Democrats, noted after the 2004 vote. Such surveys are ''so reliable,'' he added, ''that they are used as guides to the relative honesty of elections in Third World countries.''(18) In 2003, vote tampering revealed by exit polling in the Republic of Georgia forced Eduard Shevardnadze to step down.(19) And in November 2004, exit polling in the Ukraine -- paid for by the Bush administration -- exposed election fraud that denied Viktor Yushchenko the presidency.(20)

But that same month, when exit polls revealed disturbing disparities in the U.S. election, the six media organizations that had commissioned the survey treated its very existence as an embarrassment. Instead of treating the discrepancies as a story meriting investigation, the networks scrubbed the offending results from their Web sites and substituted them with ''corrected'' numbers that had been weighted, retroactively, to match the official vote count. Rather than finding fault with the election results, the mainstream media preferred to dismiss the polls as flawed.(21)

...

In fact, the exit poll created for the 2004 election was designed to be the most reliable voter survey in history. The six news organizations -- running the ideological gamut from CBS to Fox News -- retained Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International,(22) whose principal, Warren Mitofsky, pioneered the exit poll for CBS in 1967(23) and is widely credited with assuring the credibility of Mexico's elections in 1994.(24) For its nationwide poll, Edison/Mitofsky selected a random subsample of 12,219 voters(25) -- approximately six times larger than those normally used in national polls(26) -- driving the margin of error down to approximately plus or minus one percent.(27)

On the evening of the vote, reporters at each of the major networks were briefed by pollsters at 7:54 p.m. Kerry, they were informed, had an insurmountable lead and would win by a rout: at least 309 electoral votes to Bush's 174, with fifty-five too close to call.(28) In London, Prime Minister Tony Blair went to bed contemplating his relationship with President-elect Kerry.(29)

...

But as the evening progressed, official tallies began to show implausible disparities -- as much as 9.5 percent -- with the exit polls. In ten of the eleven battleground states, the tallied margins departed from what the polls had predicted. In every case, the shift favored Bush. Based on exit polls, CNN had predicted Kerry defeating Bush in Ohio by a margin of 4.2 percentage points. Instead, election results showed Bush winning the state by 2.5 percent. Bush also tallied 6.5 percent more than the polls had predicted in Pennsylvania, and 4.9 percent more in Florida.(33)

According to Steven F. Freeman, a visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania who specializes in research methodology, the odds against all three of those shifts occurring in concert are one in 660,000. ''As much as we can say in sound science that something is impossible,'' he says, ''it is impossible that the discrepancies between predicted and actual vote count in the three critical battleground states of the 2004 election could have been due to chance or random error.'' (See The Tale of the Exit Polls)

Puzzled by the discrepancies, Freeman laboriously examined the raw polling data released by Edison/Mitofsky in January 2005. ''I'm not even political -- I despise the Democrats,'' he says. ''I'm a survey expert. I got into this because I was mystified about how the exit polls could have been so wrong.'' In his forthcoming book, Was the 2004 Presidential Election Stolen? Exit Polls, Election Fraud, and the Official Count, Freeman lays out a statistical analysis of the polls that is deeply troubling.

In its official postmortem report issued two months after the election, Edison/Mitofsky was unable to identify any flaw in its methodology -- so the pollsters, in essence, invented one for the electorate. According to Mitofsky, Bush partisans were simply disinclined to talk to exit pollsters on November 2nd(34) -- displaying a heretofore unknown and undocumented aversion that skewed the polls in Kerry's favor by a margin of 6.5 percent nationwide.(35)

Industry peers didn't buy it. John Zogby, one of the nation's leading pollsters, told me that Mitofsky's ''reluctant responder'' hypothesis is ''preposterous.''(36) Even Mitofsky, in his official report, underscored the hollowness of his theory: ''It is difficult to pinpoint precisely the reasons that, in general, Kerry voters were more likely to participate in the exit polls than Bush voters.''(37)

Now, thanks to careful examination of Mitofsky's own data by Freeman and a team of eight researchers, we can say conclusively that the theory is dead wrong. In fact it was Democrats, not Republicans, who were more disinclined to answer pollsters' questions on Election Day. In Bush strongholds, Freeman and the other researchers found that fifty-six percent of voters completed the exit survey -- compared to only fifty-three percent in Kerry strongholds.(38) ''The data presented to support the claim not only fails to substantiate it,'' observes Freeman, ''but actually contradicts it.''

What's more, Freeman found, the greatest disparities between exit polls and the official vote count came in Republican strongholds. In precincts where Bush received at least eighty percent of the vote, the exit polls were off by an average of ten percent. By contrast, in precincts where Kerry dominated by eighty percent or more, the exit polls were accurate to within three tenths of one percent -- a pattern that suggests Republican election officials stuffed the ballot box in Bush country.(39)

''When you look at the numbers, there is a tremendous amount of data that supports the supposition of election fraud,'' concludes Freeman. ''The discrepancies are higher in battleground states, higher where there were Republican governors, higher in states with greater proportions of African-American communities and higher in states where there were the most Election Day complaints. All these are strong indicators of fraud -- and yet this supposition has been utterly ignored by the press and, oddly, by the Democratic Party.''

The evidence is especially strong in Ohio. In January, a team of mathematicians from the National Election Data Archive, a nonpartisan watchdog group, compared the state's exit polls against the certified vote count in each of the forty-nine precincts polled by Edison/Mitofsky. In twenty-two of those precincts -- nearly half of those polled -- they discovered results that differed widely from the official tally. Once again -- against all odds -- the widespread discrepancies were stacked massively in Bush's favor: In only two of the suspect twenty-two precincts did the disparity benefit Kerry. The wildest discrepancy came from the precinct Mitofsky numbered ''27,'' in order to protect the anonymity of those surveyed. According to the exit poll, Kerry should have received sixty-seven percent of the vote in this precinct. Yet the certified tally gave him only thirty-eight percent. The statistical odds against such a variance are just shy of one in 3 billion.(40)


Such results, according to the archive, provide ''virtually irrefutable evidence of vote miscount.'' The discrepancies, the experts add, ''are consistent with the hypothesis that Kerry would have won Ohio's electoral votes if Ohio's official vote counts had accurately reflected voter intent.''(41) According to Ron Baiman, vice president of the archive and a public policy analyst at Loyola University in Chicago, ''No rigorous statistical explanation'' can explain the ''completely nonrandom'' disparities that almost uniformly benefited Bush. The final results, he adds, are ''completely consistent with election fraud -- specifically vote shifting.''

...

But in the battle for Ohio, Republicans had a distinct advantage: The man in charge of the counting was Kenneth Blackwell, the co-chair of President Bush's re-election committee.(43) As Ohio's secretary of state, Blackwell had broad powers to interpret and implement state and federal election laws -- setting standards for everything from the processing of voter registration to the conduct of official recounts.(44) And as Bush's re-election chair in Ohio, he had a powerful motivation to rig the rules for his candidate. Blackwell, in fact, served as the ''principal electoral system adviser'' for Bush during the 2000 recount in Florida,(45) where he witnessed firsthand the success of his counterpart Katherine Harris, the Florida secretary of state who co-chaired Bush's campaign there.(46)




I know... All coincidence and crazy liberal conspiracy theories...
Just brush it off... :rolleyes:
 
B

Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
cyberbri said:
I bet you didn't even bother to read any of the article...


From the first page, just so you don't actually have to click on anything...
You've got bogus info.......

Had you followed the election that day, you would have known that it was the other way around. The antique media was all "buzzing" and the Kerry campaign camp was all smiles when the bogus polls started being announced. Kerry was being projected with huge margins in battleground states that should have been tight, and that's why we knew there was a problem with the exit polls. Kerry was also being projected to win a few RED states that he had "NO CHANCE IN HELL" of winning. As it turns out, a disproportionate amount Dems were being interviewed for the exit polls....hense, the false results.
 
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C

cyberbri

Banned
Buckeye_Nut said:
You've got bogus info.......

Had you followed the election that day, you would have known that it was the other way around. The antique media was all "buzzing" and the Kerry campaign camp was all smiles when the bogus polls started being announced. Kerry was being projected with huge margins in battleground states that should have been tight, and that's why we knew there was a problem with the exit polls. Kerry was also being projected to win a few RED states that he had "NO CHANCE IN HELL" of winning. As it turns out, a disproportionate amount Dems were being interviewed for the exit polls....hense, the false results.
OK.

article said:
In fact it was Democrats, not Republicans, who were more disinclined to answer pollsters' questions on Election Day. In Bush strongholds, Freeman and the other researchers found that fifty-six percent of voters completed the exit survey -- compared to only fifty-three percent in Kerry strongholds.(38)

Where's your info?
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
craigsub said:
Here are the real exit poll numbers for Ohio.

Ohio 2004 Presidential exit polls from CNN


Links to all these exit polls are found here : Exit Polls From Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International:
The Exclusive Source for Election Day Information


In the case of the Ohio exit polls, Bush and Kerry tied among Female Voters, 50-50, and Bush carried the Male Vote 52-47.

Isn't that after the exit poll results were modified to match the election results?

article said:
But that same month, when exit polls revealed disturbing disparities in the U.S. election, the six media organizations that had commissioned the survey treated its very existence as an embarrassment. Instead of treating the discrepancies as a story meriting investigation, the networks scrubbed the offending results from their Web sites and substituted them with ''corrected'' numbers that had been weighted, retroactively, to match the official vote count. Rather than finding fault with the election results, the mainstream media preferred to dismiss the polls as flawed.(21)
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
cyberbri said:
Isn't that after the exit poll results were modified to match the election results?
No, those are the actual exit polls, as in factual.
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
craigsub said:
No, But if you grab a mirror, you will figure it out.

Buckeye says this:

Had you followed the election that day, you would have known that it was the other way around. The antique media was all "buzzing" and the Kerry campaign camp was all smiles when the bogus polls started being announced. Kerry was being projected with huge margins in battleground states that should have been tight, and that's why we knew there was a problem with the exit polls. Kerry was also being projected to win a few RED states that he had "NO CHANCE IN HELL" of winning. As it turns out, a disproportionate amount Dems were being interviewed for the exit polls....hense, the false results.
So the exit polls were wrong.


You said of the exit polls that showed Bush in the lead:
No (they weren't modified), those are the actual exit polls, as in factual.
So who's right and who's wrong??
Why don't you and Buckeye sort your stories out, then get back to me? ;)
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
cyberbri said:
Buckeye says this:



So the exit polls were wrong.


You said of the exit polls that showed Bush in the lead:


So who's right and who's wrong??
Why don't you and Buckeye sort your stories out, then get back to me? ;)
Let us see if you can follow this. I am not Buckeye_Nut. I really don't give a rat's butt what he posted, either.

You and your whack job friends in the asinine web sites are doing nothing more than making stuff up. The Exit polling is the same now as it was on November 2, 2004. The links I provided will show what the actual exit polls were on that day, not what the "buzz" of the day was.

Do you realize you guys sound as rational as the nutbugers who populate the right wing Militia groups ?
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
craigsub said:
Do you realize you guys sound as rational as the nutbugers who populate the right wing Militia groups ?

Actually craig, they don't even sound that rational.:eek:
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
jeffsg4mac said:
Actually craig, they don't even sound that rational.:eek:
Good Point - If a Volkswagen bus full of terrorists was headed my direction, and I had my choice of asking either some militia types for help or Cyberbri and his ilk for help, it would be a pretty easy decision... ;)
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
craigsub said:
Good Point - If a Volkswagen bus full of terrorists was headed my direction, and I had my choice of asking either some militia types for help or Cyberbri and his ilk for help, it would be a pretty easy decision... ;)
Or call me:) I own a few guns:D
 
B

Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
craigsub said:
No, But if you grab a mirror, you will figure it out.
Heh...Ok, that made me laugh. All he had to do was watch the news on election day as the election unfolded, and he would have seen the glorious polls projecting kerry winning in a landslide. The reports were a complete joke, and it didnt take long to see the reports were biased in favor of the libbies.

I earn my living in politics(not as an elected official), and I follow this stuff closer than 99.9% of the general public. I refuse to post links to those quoting RFK and his crackpot reports because they will believe whatever they want.

I typically take election days off, and watch the fun as the results unfold while channel swapping several networks and cable news stations. For me, these events are "superbowl" like........

My highlight of the 2004 election was watching during the wee hours of the night when GWB was first 'called' winner by fox news. Gradually...... the other networks followed and said the same. The fun part is when CNN followed and called GWB the winner. Watching the woman in the booth with a cracking voice past midnight, and quivering lip as she admitted Kerry lost was priceless!!!! Then watching "Wolfie" and the gang rationalizing while providing filler material for the report how it "It Wasnt lost YET"..... only added to the fun. The lady in the booth was so distraught, she almost couldnt talk.

Wow....... witnessing that live was priceless!!!!!! I forget her name, but it doesnt matter. Seeing their disappointment and despair live on national news was PRICELESS!!!!!!!! Watching their obvious dismay after the glorious exit polls, and then plummeting to the 'crashing' reality was absolutely a HOOT!!!!
 
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C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
Buckeye_Nut said:
Heh...Ok, that made me laugh. All he had to do was watch the news on election day as the election unfolded, and he would have seen the glorious polls projecting kerry winning in a landslide. The reports were a complete joke, and it didnt take long to see the reports were biased in favor of the libbies.

I earn my living in politics(not as an elected official), and I follow this stuff closer than 99.9% of the general public. I refuse to post links to those quoting RFK and his crackpot reports because they will believe whatever they want.

I typically take election days off, and watch the fun as the results unfold while channel swapping several networks and cable news stations. For me, these events are "superbowl" like........

My highlight of the 2004 election was watching during the wee hours of the night when GWB was first 'called' winner by fox news. Gradually...... the other networks followed and said the same. The fun part is when CNN followed and called GWB the winner. Watching the woman in the booth with a cracking voice past midnight, and quivering lip as she admitted Kerry lost was priceless!!!! Then watching "Wolfie" and the gang rationalizing while providing filler material for the report how it "It Wasnt lost YET"..... only added to the fun. The lady in the booth was so distraught, she almost couldnt talk.

Wow....... witnessing that live was priceless!!!!!! I forget her name, but it doesnt matter. Seeing their disappointment and despair live on national news was PRICELESS!!!!!!!! Watching their obvious dismay after the glorious exit polls, and then plummeting to the 'crashing' reality was absolutely a HOOT!!!!
Now that I have actually read what you posted, I do give a rat's butt. I had forgotten the anguish which was CNN that night. Great post !
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
Watch this, or don't:
http://www.iwilltryit.com/fixed1.htm

I guess this whistleblower is just another crazy guy like me, making **** up as he testifies at a congressional hearing about being asked to write software for voting machines that could fix elections...

So there's no need to watch it...
Just throw some more childish insults at me and brush it off without watching it. Ignorance is bliss, as they say...
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
cyberbri said:
Watch this, or don't:
http://www.iwilltryit.com/fixed1.htm

I guess this whistleblower is just another crazy guy like me, making **** up as he testifies at a congressional hearing about being asked to write software for voting machines that could fix elections...

So there's no need to watch it...
Just throw some more childish insults at me and brush it off without watching it. Ignorance is bliss, as they say...
Ok ... As it is clear you don't own one, PM me your address, and I will send you a mirror.
 
C

cyberbri

Banned
I take it you didn't click on the link... ;)

Besides the testimony in front of a congressional hearing under oath in that video, there is so much documented evidence about these voting machines being so easily hackable it's disgusting. Every day there are multiple new developments in this threat to our democracy documented places like this.

Would YOU use an ATM from a bank that didn't print receipts and has serious security holes that mean anyone with some computer programming knowledge could hack in and transfer funds without leaving a trace?

Why should we trust the foundation of our democracy to voting machines that are so vulnerable? Don't you care about protecting our freedom and democracy?
 

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