REVIEW: Denon AVR-4306 Receiver with HDMI

[briansmith]

Hi Brian,

I recently spent some time at Audioholics and we confirmed that the 5805 is running MultEQ exactly it should. Gene will likely report on our adventures in future writings, but we took some data in Gene's new amazing room that show the 5805 correcting down to nearly 20 Hz.

As I said before, I believe that the lack of bass issue is due to the default setting of Large vs. Small. While the intent behind that definition is a good one, it can get us into trouble if it is followed blindly. The definition is: "call anything that plays below 80 Hz a Large speaker". Many front speakers go down to, say, 60 Hz and are called Large by default. That means that all the bass is lost unless you set them to Small manually.

We have pointed this out to Denon and they are considering making some changes to their default settings. In any case, it's a pretty simple fix.

As for the high frequencies, the Audyssey curve introduces a roll-off to take into account the changes in directivity that occur and also the difference in direct-to-reverberant energy between a theater and a home theater. We recommend the Audyssey curve for movies only and only if you are not in THX mode. For THX mode, we recommend on Flat so that the THX re-eq can work as intended. For music there are no standards in the industry so we recommend starting with Flat (no roll-off).

I hope this addresses the issues. I would be curious to hear how things work out.

Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,

Thank you for responding.

I received the 5805 today so I should be able to share my impressions shortly.

I have a few questions in the meantime. You said that the MultiEQ is working as it should. Why then was (is?) Audioholics experiencing a lack of EQ below 100hz? I would assume that their speakers were set to "small" and that was not the problem? I'm curious as to why now it is working where as before they claimed it was not. They were experiencing the same problem w/ the 4306 also, correct?

If I listen to SACD/DVD-A and use Audyssey will there be a conversion to PCM first? If this is the case would it not defeat the purpose of listening to a hi-rez source in the first place? Basically I am wondering how Audyssey works when it comes to hi-rez formats.

Lastly, in your "tips" post on the AVS Forum you stated that the microphone should be at ear level but above the back of the couch to avoid reflections. If I place the microphone at ear level my couch is several inches higher. What would you recommend in this case? Should I leave the mircophone at ear level even though the couch will be right behind it or should I raise the microphone above the couch? I'm afraid if I move my microphone above the couch it will be too high to take an accurate measurement.

Thanks in advance! I really like the fact that you take the time to answer our questions.

-Brian

 

[briansmith]

Looks like the unit I bought is nearly two years old

Does anyone know the current firmware and how to check?

Thanks in advance.

-Brian

 

[joekoz]

Sure. I copied this from an email I got from Chris-

1. With the Main Power off (the mechanical switch not the standby switch), Hold down STATUS and ROOM EQ buttons, and turn
power on.


2. After this, push STATUS button repeatedly to read the versions.
(main ucom -> sub ucom -> ..... ->DSP3 ->..... -> main ucom -> ,,,,,,,)


It should be version 17.26 for DSP 3 (where MultEQ resides).


If you do not have version 17.26 you need to go on the Denon website and download the firmware update and load it on the 5805.

 

[audyssey]

Hi Chris,

Thank you for responding.

I received the 5805 today so I should be able to share my impressions shortly.

I have a few questions in the meantime. You said that the MultiEQ is working as it should. Why then was (is?) Audioholics experiencing a lack of EQ below 100hz? I would assume that their speakers were set to "small" and that was not the problem? I'm curious as to why now it is working where as before they claimed it was not. They were experiencing the same problem w/ the 4306 also, correct?

If I listen to SACD/DVD-A and use Audyssey will there be a conversion to PCM first? If this is the case would it not defeat the purpose of listening to a hi-rez source in the first place? Basically I am wondering how Audyssey works when it comes to hi-rez formats.

Lastly, in your "tips" post on the AVS Forum you stated that the microphone should be at ear level but above the back of the couch to avoid reflections. If I place the microphone at ear level my couch is several inches higher. What would you recommend in this case? Should I leave the mircophone at ear level even though the couch will be right behind it or should I raise the microphone above the couch? I'm afraid if I move my microphone above the couch it will be too high to take an accurate measurement.

Thanks in advance! I really like the fact that you take the time to answer our questions.

-Brian

Hi Brian,

I believe that the lack of EQ below 100 Hz was originally due to a firmware bug in the first shipment of 5805 and 4806. This was corrected with a firmware update released through Denon more than a year ago.

I'm not really sure what was up with the 4306 measurements that were recently reported. The code in that AVR is identical to the one in all the others so there should be no differences.

What we have seen as we continue to collect data from many rooms is that a big response dip in the rolloff region of a speaker may "fool" MultEQ into thinking that it needs to protect the speaker by not overcorrecting below its limit. I don't have any data to know for sure that this what happened with the 4306, but it is certainly possible. Usually, this can be alleviated by moving the first microphone position forwards or backwards along the main listening axis.

There are potentially other factors that could influence low frequency performance as well. For example, when I was in Gene's listening room we observed normal correction below 100 Hz (actually down to below 40 Hz) within the resolution limits of the filters we can implement in the 5805. However, in the days after I left, Gene took other measurements that included positions on a floor riser in his room that is likely to vibrate at low frequencies. These vibrations are transferred through the mic stand and the filters think they are actual bass frequency boosts that need to be cut. Further investigation on this is ongoing.

Regarding your hi-rez question, you will have to direct this to Denon as they are responsible for the A/D functions and sampling rate decisions. Keep in mind that some practical choices have to be made. For example, bass management functions can not operate on DSD streams as they are proprietary.

As for mic height, I would recommend placing the mic on a camera tripod that sits on the couch (or seat). The height can be at or slightly above ear height and with the tripod it will be kept away from the back of the couch. My main comment in the tips was to make sure people don't just rest the mic flat on the couch back as it is tempting to do that.

Let me know how the setup is going once you have had a chance to play with it.

Best regards,
Chris

 

[audyssey]

Looks like the unit I bought is nearly two years old

Does anyone know the current firmware and how to check?

Thanks in advance.

-Brian

Hi Brian,

You definitely need to get the firmware update before running MultEQ. Also, I want to make sure you have the DMS305 microphone for this receiver. The later mic (205) that comes with other AVRs is not usable with the 5805 because it requires a different calibration curve.

Best regards,
Chris

 

[EdS]

Just wanted to add that thanks to this thread and other reviews, I went out and purchased the Denon 4306. Prior to the 4306, I was running a Yam 2095, with a BFD to equalize a UFW-10 sub, I've measured +/- 3dB from 30-100 Hz with this setup.

I ran the auto-setup, using Audyssey's and other's helpful advice, and I it came back with very accurate speaker distances (including the sub) and crossovers at 60 Hz for the mains, 80 Hz for the center, and 100 Hz for the L/R surrounds. I set all speakers to small, left the crossover's per the auto-setup, and sat down to audition.

With regards to music, I am very impressed with the receiver whether using "Direct", "Stereo", or DPL-II, both with and without the Eq enabled (set to Flat). I have not measured the bass response yet, but to my ears it sounds at least as good as what I had going with the BFD. Overall sound is smoother, yet more detailed than the Yam 2095. Some the selections of music I listened to included:
k.d. lang, Ingenue (female vocals sounded great)
Lyle Lovett, Joshua Judges Ruth (some deep bass and Lyle's signature voice)
Return to Forever, Romantic Warrior (Stanley Clarke's bass was deep, defined, was able to hear every nuance)
Eric Clapton, Unplugged (nice test to recover "live" ambience from the recording)

I also watched on DVD "The Lord of War", bass and LFE effects were very good, surround was immersive, Nicholas Cage's running dialogue was very clear.

In all, I am very happy with this receiver's sound and it's processing power. I need to add a wireless access point to get it on my network, will be working on that during the week. I've also connected a USB Hard Drive with approximately 30GB of MP3 (compressed at 256 kbs, VBR encoding), the 4306 had no problem reading the drive, worked without a hitch. I did not do any critical listening to the MP3, but on the surface the sound quality was good.

 

[Dirk L. A.]

Denon auto setup and Audyssey multeq

I'm a proud 4306 owner since the beginning of this year...

I have upgraded my subwoofer and therefor I started again the calibration of the system. And I have some strange behaviours again (but now I ask the question hoping to have some answers/tips):

1/ the distance calculated for the SW isn't the real one. It calculated nearly twice the reality. Should I correct this manually or leave it? Has this something to do with the delay introduced by the SW circuitry?

2/ all the low medium range is reduced (as displayed in the eq graphs), I have 3 different types of speakers for the 6 of my system (+ SW). Is this really linked to the speakers or could it be the acoustics of my room? Fact is that the sound with eq on is lacking deepness and warmess. Can I do something to correct that?

3/ the eq graphics show a huge fall off at 8kHz an all the 6 speakers (3 different types). The room is very quite and I can't hear anything. What can it be? I don't think that all the speakers can have the same "problem".

4/ I have made a lot a mesures and I have found out that I get the best result when I do only one mesure in the central position. If I do the multi position mesures or if I do several mesure at the same position, the result is always worse. Anybody did the same experience?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

Dirk

 

[Nick250]

First, if you have not done so read this FAQ from Chris at Audyssey.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7969145#post7969145

Secondly anytime you run auto setup, just about in all cases you should go into speaker setup and change all speakers to small and crossover to 80Hz. Audyssey is aware that xover and speaker size could be handled better by auto eq. At least I believe Chris mentioned that.

I'm a proud 4306 owner since the beginning of this year...

1/ the distance calculated for the SW isn't the real one. It calculated nearly twice the reality. Should I correct this manually or leave it? Has this something to do with the delay introduced by the SW circuitry?

Not sure, I would be tempted to set it manually.[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE] 2/ all the low medium range is reduced (as displayed in the eq graphs), I have 3 different types of speakers for the 6 of my system (+ SW). Is this really linked to the speakers or could it be the acoustics of my room? [/QUOTE]

Audyssey bases it corrections on what it hears, which is a combination of room acoustics and speakers together [/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE] Fact is that the sound with eq on is lacking deepness and warmess. Can I do something to correct that? [/QUOTE]

That is a broader question than I can answer. It certainly can be that you simply prefer the sound without eq engaged.

[/QUOTE]3/ the eq graphics show a huge fall off at 8kHz an all the 6 speakers (3 different types). The room is very quite and I can't hear anything. What can it be? I don't think that all the speakers can have the same "problem". [/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE] 4/ I have made a lot a mesures and I have found out that I get the best result when I do only one mesure in the central position. If I do the multi position mesures or if I do several mesure at the same position, the result is always worse. Anybody did the same experience?[/QUOTE]

I make the measurements in about a 7' by 3' area. I have not tried beyond that.

My last comment is that music sounds better to me with audyssey engaged and that I like movies with all auto eq turned off.

 

[Boltonite]

Nicholas Cage's running dialogue was very clear.

Well, you can't expect the receiver to be perfect.

 

[pitchfork]

Avr-4306

I'm considering buying the AVR-4306 and hooking it up to Axiom Audio's M80 tower speakers. The M80s are rated at 4 ohms.

1) Will the 4306 be able to drive these speakers w/o problems?
2) Will bi-amping help?
3) I noticed that the THD rating for the 4306 is almost a magnitude higher at 6 ohms (0.7 THD) vs. 0.08 THD at 8 ohms. There is no rating for THD at 4 ohms. Could one extrapolate and make a reasonable guess at the THD at 4 ohms? Would this be something that I would hear?
4) Would adding an 8 ohm center and surrounds (mixed load) cause a problem w/ the 4306?
5) If I were to buy a 1080p HDTV in the future, could I hook it up to the 4306 and get true 1080p?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Alan.

 

[Audioholics]

Will the 4306 be able to drive these speakers w/o problems? Will bi-amping help?

Yes and maybe. You have extra amps if you aren't running Surround Back speakers so you might as well use them. This receiver won't have any problems driving a 4-ohm load unless you have a huge room and want to bring it to insane levels for extended periods of time.

5) If I were to buy a 1080p HDTV in the future, could I hook it up to the 4306 and get true 1080p?

Yes. The AVR-4306 supports 1080p throughput, though I have not been able to test it personally.

[Edited 1080p capability.]

 

[Dirk L. A.]

Hi Nick,
Thanks for your answers and for pointing me to that other great thread! I missed that one... very rich indeed.
-- Dirk

 

[Dirk L. A.]

SW calculated distance

Not sure, I would be tempted to set it manually.

The problem is that each time I do a calibration (only 1 position) at exactly the same position (I didn't touch the tripod), I get a different value from 3.84 meters (which is almost the exact distance) up to nearly 5 meters for the subwoofer.

The distances for all other speakers are each time exactly the same.

-- Dirk

 

[EdS]

I've had my 4306 for a week now, and have just compared the Audyssey EQ for the sub frequencies to the what I previously was getting with my Yam 2095 and a BFD. For my setup, there is no doubt that the 4306 w/ Audyssey is doing as good, if not better, as the Yam 2095 w/BFD. Here are the results:

4306 w/EQ on: 28Hz-140Hz, +/-4 dB
2095 w/BFD: 28Hz-140Hz, +/- 7dB

The two are actually fairly similar below 80Hz, the biggest difference between is in the region between 80Hz-140Hz, where I assume the Audyssey is doing more than just sub correction, here are the results:

4306 w/EQ on: 80Hz-140Hz, +/-3 dB
2095 w/BFD: 80Hz-140Hz, +/- 6 dB

I'm using the crossovers recommended by Audyssey, which are:
60 Hz - Mains
80 Hz - Center
100 Hz - Surrounds

I've also checked all of the levels with Avia HT Setup Disk, and all of the channel levels are spot on.

One other interesting thing the Audyssey did, when I was looking at the response curves in the Graphic EQ, they were set for the most part +/- 2 dB of flat, with the exception of the 500Hz-1kHz region, here there was a -5dB cut for both the L & R speakers. I looked up the speaker's response curve (Norh 6.9 SM), and they have a 5dB peak starting at 500Hz and extending past 1kHz. So it looks like Audyssey is doing a good job of flattening out the sound field for a uniform response.

I realize not everyone has had similar experiences with Audyssey, but for me it is working about as good as could be expected. So far I like the results of having it engaged.

 

[Nick250]

For curiosities sake, what speakers and sub are you running?

Nick

 

[EdS]

Hey Nick, see my setup below:

L/R: Norh 6.9 SM, rated at -3dB point at 40Hz
Center: Norh 4.0 Ceramic
Surrounds (L/R): Norh 4.1 Prism
Sub: Onix UFW-10

Here are some links to the Norh speakers if you're not familar with their speakers, unusual looking, but made with quality components and IMO good sounding.
Norh 6.9 SM
Norh 4.0 Ceramic
Norh Prism 4.1


By the way, it was the in large part due to all of the good, constructive posts on using and configuring Audyssey you made at this forum and the AVS Forum that I finally decided to go with the Denon receiver. Thanks !

 

[Nick250]

Glad you got your speakers, 3806/audyssey configured well and sounding good to you. Happy to be of assistance.
Nick

 

[pitchfork]

Thanks

Yes and maybe. You have extra amps if you aren't running Surround Back speakers so you might as well use them. This receiver won't have any problems driving a 4-ohm load unless you have a huge room and want to bring it to insane levels for extended periods of time.
Yes. The AVR-4306 supports 1080p throughput, though I have not been able to test it personally.

Thanks for the answers Clint.

 

[Dirk L. A.]

Upscaling experience

The AVR-4306 supports 1080p throughput and upconversion, though I have not been able to test it personally.

The AVR-4306 is not upconverting to 1080p, only 1080i. However it accepts 1080p input and ouput it "as is".

I'm feeding my full HD screen (Philips 42pf9830) with the HDMI upconvert to 1080i signal, that's perfect except for low (standard) and interlaced resolution sources where the interlaced signal becomes visible combined to the upscaling.

What I'm doing to remove this problem is: I send the the RGB signal from my digital cable tv (not HD, that the best we have here in Switzerland) in my HDD/DVD Panasonic player. The Panasonic is doing interlaced to progressive output and send with the component signal to the Denon, who is then doing the final upscaling. In this way the Philips is perfect even if the signal is "only" interlaced. In my case 1080i is for sure better than the 720p output.

-- Dirk

 

[specka]

Not all good for me...

Hi All,
I upgraded to the 4306 after I had not one but two faulty NAD T773 receivers. The T773 is a top receiver from NAD, light on features but strong on sound quality. When it worked it was amazing through my Dynaudio Audience 52/42 setup. The Denon cost me an extra AU$1500, and I am making full use of the features like ethernet to my server, internet radio and Ipod, and HDMI. What I must say though is the sound quality falls short of the NAD and it is really getting to me. I have exhausted the myriad of config options, but music lacks the control in the bass that I heard from NAD.

So I guess I would like to know if anyway has any advice or experience with this pairing of speakers and receiver. The Dynaudio's sound so great with NAD and also have had an Arcam AVR300 through them which was superb.