Received my Carnegie CSB1's today, a lot of people wanted to know what I thought...

[darien87]

That's weird? Wonder if that is a Marantz thing or Audessey thing? With the UMC-200 I can see and edit them after the fact.

Not sure but Marantz confirmed that you only get the one chance to see the curve. I also asked them about EQ'ing the sub because I saw curves for every other speaker but not the sub. There also aren't any EQ points below 63hz. So with the AV7005 there is no way to EQ the sub. Lame.

Looks like I may get the XMC-1 after all.

 

[j_garcia]

Even the UMC-200 has bands for the sub, and actually the most improvement I notice with mine with the EQ is the sub.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Not sure but Marantz confirmed that you only get the one chance to see the curve. I also asked them about EQ'ing the sub because I saw curves for every other speaker but not the sub. There also aren't any EQ points below 63hz. So with the AV7005 there is no way to EQ the sub. Lame.

I'm a bit baffled by this. It sounds like you're having some trouble running/understanding Audyssey and you're taking it out on Marantz.

Page 16 of the AV7005 user manual describes how to check the EQ curves: Marantz US | AV7005

Auto Setup --> Parameter Check

To my knowledge, all Marantz receivers allow this. It will show you some approximation to the filter used for both the Audyssey and Audyssey Flat settings. You can not tweak the filters (without an Audyssey pro kit), you can also not see the curve for the subwoofer (which I find pretty annoying).

There ABSOLUTELY are EQ points below 63 hz. In fact, the whole point with setting your speakers to small is that the resolution of the filters used for the subwoofer is 32 times that of the filters used for the other speakers. So with Audyssey XT it is particularly beneficial to use "small" and a 80hz or above crossover to capitalize on these finer resolution filters. (Aud XT32 uses the same resolution of filters in the sub and other speakers).

I'm sure the XMC-1 is great, but I wouldn't give up on the Marantz before understanding how to use Audyssey properly (your combo with the XPA-5 is a good one too). IMO, there is night/day difference with/without Audyssey dynamic EQ and I wouldn't want to be without it. I'd try it some more. -Jon

 

[darien87]

I'm a bit baffled by this. It sounds like you're having some trouble running/understanding Audyssey and you're taking it out on Marantz.

Page 16 of the AV7005 user manual describes how to check the EQ curves: Marantz US | AV7005

Auto Setup --> Parameter Check

To my knowledge, all Marantz receivers allow this. It will show you some approximation to the filter used for both the Audyssey and Audyssey Flat settings. You can not tweak the filters (without an Audyssey pro kit), you can also not see the curve for the subwoofer (which I find pretty annoying).

There ABSOLUTELY are EQ points below 63 hz. In fact, the whole point with setting your speakers to small is that the resolution of the filters used for the subwoofer is 32 times that of the filters used for the other speakers. So with Audyssey XT it is particularly beneficial to use "small" and a 80hz or above crossover to capitalize on these finer resolution filters. (Aud XT32 uses the same resolution of filters in the sub and other speakers).

I'm sure the XMC-1 is great, but I wouldn't give up on the Marantz before understanding how to use Audyssey properly (your combo with the XPA-5 is a good one too). IMO, there is night/day difference with/without Audyssey dynamic EQ and I wouldn't want to be without it. I'd try it some more. -Jon

Not sure what manual you're looking at but page 16 of mine talks about HDMI hookups.

I've read the manual, (not that it's really all that helpful) and just to confirm what I thought I called Marantz customer service. They told me that indeed the ONLY time you can see the Audyssey applied curves to the speakers is immediately after you do the set up. Also when I explained to the rep what I was trying to do I asked him specifically, "So there's no way to EQ the sub?", and he said "no". Now maybe I got an idiot of a rep, but I sure as hell don't see how you do it. I'll go back into the manual curve again and see if there is another option. There is one titled "All speakers" but I assumed this meant that it would apply the curve to all speakers. Maybe there is another sub-menu under there that will let me get to the sub.

EDIT: Looking on page 76 of the manual, there is a sub-menu under the manual curve called "Each: Adjust the tone of each speaker". I swear I didn't see this when I was looking before but I'll check again. I hope that's where the sub settings are.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I was referring to the user manual in the link above:

http://us.marantz.com/DocumentMaster/US/AV7005_U_EN_UG_v00.pdf

Using their numbering in the manual it is page 12. Using the number that you'll get via Adobe or your Web browser, type in "16". That Marantz rep obviously did not know what they were talking about.

As I stated above go to Auto Setup, then click on Parameter Check. There you can check the EQ curves. Audyssey absolutely EQs the sub, that rep was clueless.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

There are several settings to choose from and here's what they do:

Audyssey: EQs all speakers (including sub) to flat but introducing slight high end roll off. Can use dynamic EQ with this.
Audyssey Flat: EQs all speakers (including sub) to flat. Basically this is "Audyssey" setting minus the high end roll off. Can use dynamic EQ with this.
Bypass L/R: EQs all speakers except L/R (including sub) introducing slight high end roll off. I don't recall about dynamic EQ.
Off: Turns Audyssey off, no EQ is applied to any speakers. Can not use DEQ.
Manual: Can copy another setting, put it in here and tweak it. Can not use DEQ.

So, are you trying to EQ the sub manually? The question would be "why"? Audyssey can do this better than you or I can, and it applies the sub EQ under the first three settings above. It does not show you the curve or let you edit it, but there is no reason to do so for the average listener.

*When I say flat, I mean that's the target it shoots for. It obviously does not achieve this in any example I've seen, but it's closer to flat.

 

[darien87]

So, are you trying to EQ the sub manually? The question would be "why"? Audyssey can do this better than you or I can, and it applies the sub EQ under the first three settings above. It does not show you the curve or let you edit it, but there is no reason to do so for the average listener.

My reason for doing this is that when I plotted my curve with the Rives test disc I noticed a few points below the crossover frequency of 80hz that were down quite a bit. I was trying to pump those up a bit to get them closer to flat.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

My reason for doing this is that when I plotted my curve with the Rives test disc I noticed a few points below the crossover frequency of 80hz that were down quite a bit. I was trying to pump those up a bit to get them closer to flat.

Audyssey will do this in a better way than you or I manually could. Further, if it's a room mode, then there is no point pumping energy into nulls. Here is my sub graph with/without Audyssey and no smoothing. It looks better and sounds better. I'd just let Audyssey do its work.

 

[j_garcia]

Not to mention that cutting peaks is OK, but boosting big dips usually does not result in better sound. At least that's what I recall the manual for the Behringer Feedback Destroyer said in regards to performing manual tweaks.

Found a good example from Wayne with a lot more info:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/68920-behringer-feedback-destroyer.html

 

[fuzz092888]

A big reason Behringer and I'm guessing Wayne advise not to is because if you don't know your equipment or what you're doing when you boost, you could seriously damage something in addition to a deterioration in sound quality. More often than not, the dip is a room artifact and simply boosting in order to get a flat FR will cause it to sound extremely odd/too loud because of the reflected sound that the measurement isn't taking into account if you're gating, the driver may be overdriven, and odds are you'll run into a distortion spike where you boosted.

If you run REW's auto cal it shows you the before/after and it can choose the desired SPL target. Which helps give you a good idea what's safe to boost and cut if you've never done it before and are interested in getting into it. Personally, I've found that I did a better job than Audyssey with my dual opposed, but it took a lot of work, a lot of research, and a lot of trial and error.

Not to mention that cutting peaks is OK, but boosting big dips usually does not result in better sound. At least that's what I recall the manual for the Behringer Feedback Destroyer said in regards to performing manual tweaks.

Found a good example from Wayne with a lot more info:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/68920-behringer-feedback-destroyer.html

 

[darien87]

I actually have the Behringer Feedback Destroyer but I never got around to setting it up and I HATED the nasty turn on thump I got with it every time it turned on. Maybe I'll put it back in the system and give it a shot.

 

[fuzz092888]

Received my Carnegie CSB1's today, a lot of people wanted to know what I thou...

I actually have the Behringer Feedback Destroyer but I never got around to setting it up and I HATED the nasty turn on thump I got with it every time it turned on. Maybe I'll put it back in the system and give it a shot.

I have one or a similar behringer get unit as well, but the sub amp is stacked under it so as long as I remember to turn it on before the amp and turn the amp off first everything is kosher.

I really prefer miniDSP's UI, but the behringer get still has some feathered that the other is missing.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Not to mention that cutting peaks is OK, but boosting big dips usually does not result in better sound.

Absolutely agree!

 

[darien87]

I'm a bit baffled by this. It sounds like you're having some trouble running/understanding Audyssey and you're taking it out on Marantz.

So just confirmed that even when trying to tweak the manual curve of each speaker, the unit shows you all speakers EXCEPT the sub and the lowest EQ point is 63hz. So like I said and the Marantz rep confirmed, there is NO WAY to manually EQ the sub. Also it doesn't show you the EQ curve for the sub after calibrating Audyssey like it does the other speakers so there is no way to know what the hell the unit is doing with the sub.

Next time, make sure you know what you're talking about before you go telling someone they don't know what they're doing.

 

[darien87]

I have one or a similar behringer get unit as well, but the sub amp is stacked under it so as long as I remember to turn it on before the amp and turn the amp off first everything is kosher.

Yeah, I could just manually turn it on and off and not have the thump but that's kind of a pain. I had the Behringer connected to the switched inputs on my Belkin power center to turn it on and off with my system but with the auto-off amp on my Rythmik sub, the turn on thump is enough to turn the sub on and sometimes the pop is pretty loud.

 

[sawzalot]

Yeah, I could just manually turn it on and off and not have the thump but that's kind of a pain. I had the Behringer connected to the switched inputs on my Belkin power center to turn it on and off with my system but with the auto-off amp on my Rythmik sub, the turn on thump is enough to turn the sub on and sometimes the pop is pretty loud.

Same thump here with my Behringer and DCX setup, sometimes it really unnerves me but other times I just let it go I mean what the heck could go wrong,.........Better yet lets not answer that.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

So just confirmed that even when trying to tweak the manual curve of each speaker, the unit shows you all speakers EXCEPT the sub and the lowest EQ point is 63hz. So like I said and the Marantz rep confirmed, there is NO WAY to manually EQ the sub. Also it doesn't show you the EQ curve for the sub after calibrating Audyssey like it does the other speakers so there is no way to know what the hell the unit is doing with the sub.

Next time, make sure you know what you're talking about before you go telling someone they don't know what they're doing.

I'm done with trying to help you. I have said in almost everyone of my posts that there is no way to see the curve for the subwoofer and there is no way to manually tweak it. You asked the Marantz rep if the sub could be EQ'd, they replied no, which is incorrect. You did not indicate in your post that you asked the rep if the sub could be manually EQ'd. Audyssey applies EQ on the sub on almost every one of the "audyssey", "audyssey flat", etc.. settings. What Audyssey is doing in the bass regions is far beyond most people's grasps, so it is both a protection of proprietary software to not show you what it is doing, as well as the fact that there's no point letting someone interfere with it by adding EQ in a way they think is best.

If you want a parametric EQ, then get a parametric EQ. Good luck.

 

[darien87]

I'm done with trying to help you.

......... Yay! ..................

 

[sawzalot]

Have any Carnegie Owners added the No Rez to the tower speakers yet, I would like to know just how much better you feel they sound now. I have not had the time to to do any mods yet but they sure sound good without the lo rez added. I will try to get er done this week after work, I have limited time to use the spare room set up for the operation as we have company coming in this weekend so I will go for it.

 

[fuzz092888]

Given that it's a TL design, I would assume it would benefit a little more from proper stuffing than a typical ported or sealed design. If the speaker is understuffed, stuffing it properly may raise the tuning point to where it's supposed to be and tighten the bass and midrange up. IIRC anyways.

Have any Carnegie Owners added the No Rez to the tower speakers yet, I would like to know just how much better you feel they sound now. I have not had the time to to do any mods yet but they sure sound good without the lo rez added. I will try to get er done this week after work, I have limited time to use the spare room set up for the operation as we have company coming in this weekend so I will go for it.