Question for you vinyl people out there.

[WookieGR]

I just got back into the wax after a few decades away. This go around I have much better to play with than I did before.

Something that strikes me hard is the fact that no matter how I clean the record there is always a persistent campfire in the background. Of course, records can have a range of quality but some of the very best I have are like honey to the ears but in the silent spots and in between tracks there's that damn crackling.

I can't imagine people with 100k tied up in audio gear still deal with that.

I've tried the cleaning kit provided by Fluance which is dry and also a wet kit with velvet brush found here: Big Fudge

Is there a problem with my cartridge? Is this normal? I thought vinyl had the ability to be silent. I can't believe you need to use an $800 cleaning machine before listening to anything.

I've also heard some death defyinging remarkable vinyl rips from 45's that are damn near high res digital.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not all vinyl is created/pressed equally. Sometimes its damage at time of pressing, or just poor quality vinyl, and you're not going to clean that away. Just ran across this, might be useful to you https://thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf

A large 45 is better than a 33 1/3 record, don't have to squeeze the grooves as much and you get the better speed, particularly useful compared to inner groove speed on a 33 1/3.....of course you get less content per side that way, tho....and not a ton of choice in that format either.

Mostly these days I don't even bother playing mine....I'm not that nostalgaic but once in a while....

 

[SithZedi]

Agree with above. I have started slowly buying some newly issued half speed vinyl to replace well worn out originals from the 70s. At least to my ears, there is a difference for the better but a needle is still managed friction..

Abbey Road engineer explains why half speed mastering produces great vinyl – SuperDeluxeEdition

superdeluxeedition.com

 

[Verdinut]

Agree with above. I have started slowly buying some newly issued half speed vinyl to replace well worn out originals from the 70s. At least to my ears, there is a difference for the better but a needle is still managed friction..

Abbey Road engineer explains why half speed mastering produces great vinyl – SuperDeluxeEdition

superdeluxeedition.com

If it's half speed vinyl, you mean 16 2/3 rpm, I may be wrong but I would presume that the high frequencies are more limited to a certain extent than with the 33 1/3 speed disc. The recording must be EQd to compensate for it. IMO, there is a similarity as with the 3¾ ips compared with the 7½ speed tape.

 

[WookieGR]

If it's half speed vinyl, you mean 16 2/3 rpm, I may be wrong but I would presume that the high frequencies are more limited to a certain extent than with the 33 1/3 speed disc. The recording must be EQd to compensate for it. IMO, there is a similarity as with the 3¾ ips compared with the 7½ speed tape.

I think it means the mastering process all the way to the pressing takes twice as long.

 

[Mikado463]

Cleanliness is next to godliness when it comes to LP playback and yes it does take patience and persistence to get the snap, crackle and pops to a minimum. Last year I invested in a ultrasonic RCM and I'm very pleased.

Home | Degritter

Take timeto experience

degritter.com

Yes I know it's not cheap but with aprox 1500 LP's in my collection it along with my VPI 16.5 manages to keep the noise issues to a minimum

 

[Verdinut]

I think it means the mastering process all the way to the pressing takes twice as long.

The original mastering shouldn't take more time. Basically, for a new recording the mastering is the same as for a CD. Then the recording goes through a DA converter for the vinyl pressing. That vinyl making process (which they call mastering) has nothing to do with the original mastering of the recording.

 

[TLS Guy]

I just got back into the wax after a few decades away. This go around I have much better to play with than I did before.

Something that strikes me hard is the fact that no matter how I clean the record there is always a persistent campfire in the background. Of course, records can have a range of quality but some of the very best I have are like honey to the ears but in the silent spots and in between tracks there's that damn crackling.

I can't imagine people with 100k tied up in audio gear still deal with that.

I've tried the cleaning kit provided by Fluance which is dry and also a wet kit with velvet brush found here: Big Fudge

Is there a problem with my cartridge? Is this normal? I thought vinyl had the ability to be silent. I can't believe you need to use an $800 cleaning machine before listening to anything.

I've also heard some death defyinging remarkable vinyl rips from 45's that are damn near high res digital.

The biggest issue with the vinyl LPs is that they are intolerant of even the most trivial abuse by their owners. The worst news about this is that once an LP becomes noisy it is difficult to improve matters, and very often impossible. It is possible to care for vinyl. I built up a large vinyl collection from 1954 to the 1980s or so when the CD took over. I have very few of these LPs that can be considered in any way noisy. Most play as quiet as a CD. So it is appropriate to review care.

The most important thing is to NEVER touch the playing surface.

Next, as soon as you remove a disc from its jacket, play it and return it to the jacket right after play.

Keep the jacket and inner sleeve in good condition.

When placing the record in its sleeve, make sure the sleeve opening is a 90 degrees to the jacket opening.

In this way it is very unlikely dust will accumulate on the disc.

If it should then you can treat with a good recommended record brush. A word of warning, most are harmful. I use the Hunt EDA brush. If you use a brush, apply it lightly to the disc, and make sure you have it orientated correctly, and as the record rotates pull it to the outside of the disc and not the inside.

Now, the best device for keeping your discs in good condition is the Cecil E Watts Dust Bug. Cecil Watts was a brilliant engineer, who used an electron microscope to study vinyl discs for playing deformation and fouling. His bristles and brush was carefully designed to remove dirt from the deepest parts of the groove. Do not use the antistatic fluid though.

These units quite often come up on eBay.

That is one of my Dust Bugs. I never play a disc without the Dust Bug.

If all else fails then you can try a cleaning machine. However you need a high end one and not a cheap one. Most will make matters worse.

This project system is about the cheapest I could recommend. However there is no cleaning machine that will return a noisy LP to pristine condition.

 

[SithZedi]

The original mastering shouldn't take more time. Basically, for a new recording the mastering is the same as for a CD. Then the recording goes through a DA converter for the vinyl pressing. That vinyl making process (which they call mastering) has nothing to do with the original mastering of the recording.

Here is a "brief" summary of the process. The final product is played at 33 rpm just like a regular LP.

“If you think of the music from speakers, the soundwaves, it’s recorded on an LP as a wavy groove. So the size and shape of the groove is directly correspondent to what the music is doing at that point. So let’s say, for example, we have some bass… you have a very slow lateral movement of groove. It goes a long way, but it travels quite slowly. Mid-range would be a guitar or a snare drum, or some vocal. Much, much faster… but still not too fast. High frequency information, like a tambourine or a high-hat – or anything that’s high end – moves really fast. So let’s say with a tambourine, you might have a 12kHz component in there. That’s 12,000 air cycles a second. The only way you can cut that into a record is to have the recording stylus vibrate at 12,000 times a second, otherwise if it didn’t do that, it wouldn’t get it on the disc and you couldn’t play it back – it wouldn’t be there! That’s actually quite difficult… to persuade this tiny chisel [to cut] into a disc, and it’s buzzing around – it gets really hot and quite stressed. So if you can slow the whole thing down, and reduce the music by a factor of two and the speed of the cutting lathe that’s cutting the disc, all of that difficult-to-cut high-frequency information becomes mid-range – much easier to get on! The system’s not getting pushed to its limits, it’s not getting stressed. Everything has got twice as long to record that intricate groove."

 

[WookieGR]

I should have mentioned, my issue is new and sealed records first play are noisy. Cleaning a brand new, never played record with excessive pops is my problem.

 

[TLS Guy]

I should have mentioned, my issue is new and sealed records first play are noisy. Cleaning a brand new, never played record with excessive pops is my problem.

In that case they are poor quality pressings, made with substandard vinyl most likely. If that is the case there is nothing you can do.

Some cartridges do exacerbate the problem, because of a rise in HF response. Poor speakers are also a problem. Funnily enough excessive LP back ground noise and sharp staccato pops are often a good tip off to poor speakers. Over the years the sound of LP imperfections, have been a good tip off to me that things are not right. A peaked tweeter response will play havoc with LP reproduction.

At the end of the LPs hey day, some companies released dbx II encoded discs. I am lucky enough to have a small but significant collection of them and a dbx II decoder. Those discs are dead quiet, and in fact their dynamic range exceeds CD.

 

[Mikado463]

In that case they are poor quality pressings, made with substandard vinyl most likely. If that is the case there is nothing you can do.

Agreed and while I also have had a few I still perform an initial cleaning to remove any mold release compound that might still be present. That combined with all my records are kept in achievable sleeves.

 

[Eppie]

I should have mentioned, my issue is new and sealed records first play are noisy. Cleaning a brand new, never played record with excessive pops is my problem.

Records can arrive dirty from the factory unfortunately. Some Youtubers recommend cleaning new records right out of the package. The Project cleaner TLS Guy pictured is great because of the vacuum arm. Quite expensive though. Note that wetting a record brush does not really count. You need a stand alone cleaner to really do the job right. I can't justify $1000 for the Project VC-E but Spin-Clean has some affordable units which require drying with a lint free micro fibre towel.

 

[WookieGR]

Records can arrive dirty from the factory unfortunately. Some Youtubers recommend cleaning new records right out of the package. The Project cleaner TLS Guy pictured is great because of the vacuum arm. Quite expensive though. Note that wetting a record brush does not really count. You need a stand alone cleaner to really do the job right. I can't justify $1000 for the Project VC-E but Spin-Clean has some affordable units which require drying with a lint free micro fibre towel.

I'm thinking about getting this one: https://amzn.to/3x4y1Vp

I haven't decided if the whole record thing is worth it or not. I don't have a bunch of records and I don't plan on buying too many more.

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, just what records did you get that are particularly noisy? The spin-clean is okay, but don't expect miracles.

 

[Eppie]

I'm thinking about getting this one: https://amzn.to/3x4y1Vp

I haven't decided if the whole record thing is worth it or not. I don't have a bunch of records and I don't plan on buying too many more.

I was thinking of picking one of those up as well. Not up to TLS Guy's standards but I don't play vinyl often enough to justify an ultrasonic unit or the Project. Far superior to a simple brush, though, and Spin-Clean has been around long enough to reveal whether it harms the album or not. Plenty of positive reviews on-line.

EDIT: As mentioned by others, it won't fix a bad pressing, but will remove the majority of dust and dirt.

 

[WookieGR]

Curious, just what records did you get that are particularly noisy? The spin-clean is okay, but don't expect miracles.

I think the noise is worse on the colored vinyls. Vinyl in particular, if it isn't pure, could have contaminants in it or even label adhesives that never quit got removed in the recycling process. I have a virgin, clear vinyl of the new Jimi Hendrix, Are You Experienced to try out to test that theory. I'm afraid to open it.

My gut tells me records like "Walmart Exclusives" with smokey or multi colored vinyl schemes are worse off than something like a limited run 180gm from a boutique presser. I still have lots to learn and experiment with.

 

[WookieGR]

In that case they are poor quality pressings, made with substandard vinyl most likely. If that is the case there is nothing you can do.

Some cartridges do exacerbate the problem, because of a rise in HF response. Poor speakers are also a problem. Funnily enough excessive LP back ground noise and sharp staccato pops are often a good tip off to poor speakers. Over the years the sound of LP imperfections, have been a good tip off to me that things are not right. A peaked tweeter response will play havoc with LP reproduction.

At the end of the LPs hey day, some companies released dbx II encoded discs. I am lucky enough to have a small but significant collection of them and a dbx II decoder. Those discs are dead quiet, and in fact their dynamic range exceeds CD.

Well.... I just got the Philharmonic Audio BMR Towers. I would love to hear Dennis Murphy's thoughts on the theory that poor speakers cause records to pop.

 

[WookieGR]

I was thinking of picking one of those up as well. Not up to TLS Guy's standards but I don't play vinyl often enough to justify an ultrasonic unit or the Project. Far superior to a simple brush, though, and Spin-Clean has been around long enough to reveal whether it harms the album or not. Plenty of positive reviews on-line.

EDIT: As mentioned by others, it won't fix a bad pressing, but will remove the majority of dust and dirt.

I just bought it. It's the cost of two records and I've spent way too much on some records so there's no excuse not to try this cleaner. I will definitely report my success or failures. Maybe I can do a 10 part video series on it and lose more subscribers

 

[Mikado463]

I just bought it. It's the cost of two records and I've spent way too much on some records so there's no excuse not to try this cleaner. I will definitely report my success or failures. Maybe I can do a 10 part video series on it and lose more subscribers

for the money it's not bad but as I said earlier, cleanliness is next godliness, change the water (distilled) often !