Pre/Pro and Amp opinion

[sokrman14]

best for under $1000

Alrighty, next question, now that I have decided to eventually go the route of separates. What would be the best 2 channel amp, or 2 monoblock combo, for under $1000 that you guys can think of. I have been looking at the outlaw M2200, they run for 625$ for two of them, they are monoblocks. These would be used to just power my fronts for a while until I can get more, and also get a good processor. Anyways, what else is out there to look at that would be in this price range. By the way I would prefer balanced inputs, which although wouldnt be used right away, would like the option for future expansion. The Outlaw M2200 has these inputs.

 

[highfihoney]

.....is it hard to understand why guys who have discovered better sound quality with seperate dedicated components just want to sit on their hands and not post anything?....it's a never ending repetition of posting by those defending their receiver who don't have a clue.....

hi mule, as everybody is aware im a new guy here on audioholics & i happen to be one of the guys who have heard differences in gear for years,the reasons i see that people dont want to post any positive listening experiences that they have had from running different types of gear are obvious to me as im sure they are to many others.

the very second anybody posts that they heard anything they are attacked & confronted with seudo scientific terminology, dbt links & various nonsensical questions, the same people who so adamantly defend that there are no differences to be heard refuse to let us know anything about their own systems or the gear they have tried that has led them to their own set of beliefs & if you ask them anything about their systems you will be responded to with the same answer (its irrelavent) then you will be blasted with another set of questions, no matter what the answer to any of the questions the nay sayers will find a fault & exploit it then beat the issue to death, boy that sounds like fun.

a member here recently posted some pics in a thread of some very skilled craftsmanship he had done on some speakers he made because he was obviously proud of what he had made & rightly so, the more i read the responses the more i couldnt believe what i was reading, instead of congradulating this man on a job well done some found it necessary to pick apart his design & find fault in it, this man didnt ask for advice, all he was doing was sharing something with the group but he ended up having to defend his design, this type of posting is typical.

in my case here on this site in my first post here i tried to explain the differences between a solid state amp & a tube amp to a member who wanted to try a tube system just for fun,the responses from the nay sayers ranged from calling me (golden ear'd) or accusing me of believing in (snake oil cables) & one nay sayer has felt the need on several ocasions including the thread im talking about to reference my (huge) amplifiers while he tells others that no differences will be heard from amps as long as they are working properly.

nobody in their right mind would want to be subjected to ridicule under the guise of smily faces or hit with a barrage of DBT nonsense just because they reported what they heard.

 

[Johnd]

Well stated, highfihoney. Additionally, many do not understand the sound quality tubes offer (they think of the musical group, or some other innocuous, irrelevant thing in the parallel world). Sometimes silence is golden, at other times, words speak the truth. I, for one, love your tubes!

 

[buckyg4]

anyone who says a SS amp is better than a tube amp without spending time listening to both is an idiot. yes this is harsh, but true. i don't want to hear about THD, distortion, etc.. different people like different sounds. i have a tube pre and a ss amp. i change my tubes based on the type of music I listen to because I get a different sound with different types of tubes.

 

[mtrycrafts]

anyone who says a SS amp is better than a tube amp without spending time listening to both is an idiot. yes this is harsh, but true. i don't want to hear about THD, distortion, etc.. different people like different sounds. i have a tube pre and a ss amp. i change my tubes based on the type of music I listen to because I get a different sound with different types of tubes.

You should have spent your $$$ on an EQ, then you would have had as many different sounds at your fingertip limited by imaginations only.

 

[PENG]

Alrighty, next question, now that I have decided to eventually go the route of separates. What would be the best 2 channel amp, or 2 monoblock combo, for under $1000 that you guys can think of. I have been looking at the outlaw M2200, they run for 625$ for two of them, they are monoblocks. These would be used to just power my fronts for a while until I can get more, and also get a good processor. Anyways, what else is out there to look at that would be in this price range. By the way I would prefer balanced inputs, which although wouldnt be used right away, would like the option for future expansion. The Outlaw M2200 has these inputs.

Balanced inputs are not that critical for short runs of cables. The M2200 apparently would switch from class AB to class G mode, at above 80 watts output. This design supposedly has not audible downsides but.......

Adcom amps sound great and their prices are also hard to beat. If you can stretch slightly above the $1K mark, the Earthquake Cinenova amps have impressive specs.

 

[Nick250]

hi mule, as everybody is aware im a new guy here on audioholics & i happen to be one of the guys who have heard differences in gear for years,the reasons i see that people dont want to post any positive listening experiences that they have had from running different types of gear are obvious to me as im sure they are to many others.

the very second anybody posts that they heard anything they are attacked & confronted with seudo scientific terminology, dbt links & various nonsensical questions, the same people who so adamantly defend that there are no differences to be heard refuse to let us know anything about their own systems or the gear they have tried that has led them to their own set of beliefs & if you ask them anything about their systems you will be responded to with the same answer (its irrelavent) then you will be blasted with another set of questions, no matter what the answer to any of the questions the nay sayers will find a fault & exploit it then beat the issue to death, boy that sounds like fun.

a member here recently posted some pics in a thread of some very skilled craftsmanship he had done on some speakers he made because he was obviously proud of what he had made & rightly so, the more i read the responses the more i couldnt believe what i was reading, instead of congradulating this man on a job well done some found it necessary to pick apart his design & find fault in it, this man didnt ask for advice, all he was doing was sharing something with the group but he ended up having to defend his design, this type of posting is typical.

in my case here on this site in my first post here i tried to explain the differences between a solid state amp & a tube amp to a member who wanted to try a tube system just for fun,the responses from the nay sayers ranged from calling me (golden ear'd) or accusing me of believing in (snake oil cables) & one nay sayer has felt the need on several ocasions including the thread im talking about to reference my (huge) amplifiers while he tells others that no differences will be heard from amps as long as they are working properly.

nobody in their right mind would want to be subjected to ridicule under the guise of smily faces or hit with a barrage of DBT nonsense just because they reported what they heard.

Who is attacking who in the above post? Sure Mtry gets on his high-horse about DBT and Mule pontificates about high horse power amps (not to mention Lincoln Towncars, not my cup of tea but thats ok, I dont have to drive his Towncar and he does not have to drive my TSX). Do I think Mtry gets annoying? Sometimes I do and then I just ignor the post. As for Mule, he is eloquent, but he does have his heels dug in on his point of view just as much as Mtry does.

Difference of opinion makes a horse race.

IMHO, YMMV, yadda, yadda

 

[mulester7]

Attempting to get the maximum performance out of your system for the money you can afford to spend (or less) is the fun part. My goal is always to improve/upgrade with high-performance, reasonable-cost components. It is great fun trying to find them.

.....Eirepaul, I couldn't agree more, but that's where I draw a line between the two sides of my listening theater....I want my audio side to be ALL it can be, period, letting the video side take care of itself, with my DVD player doing a grand job of upconverting, and cable TV being more than adequate, with both of them cabled directly to my monitor....I could never base a receiver purchase on switching options, or one feature pertaining to video.....

 

[MacManNM]

Well here it is. I bought a yammie 2500 off of ubid, hooked it up and liked it. Then I got my new towers (with subs) built and it sounded even better. I decided to hook up a couple of amps I had laying around to see if it sounded any better. I had my trusty old Proton D1200 (100w/ch 8ohms) and my ProtonAA1150 (50w/ch 8ohms). I used the 1200 on the mains, the 1150 on the rears, and I let the yammie power the center.

Let me tell you all, there was a HUGE difference in sound quality, even at low levels. The entire system was more dynamic, and detailed. The dialog was cleaned up a lot. Everything was cleaner and much better. Now, the 2500 has some really good pre-outs, and the amp is no slouch. The amp's that I am running are rated less than the amps in the yammie, yet they sound better. This tells me 2 things.
1. Those amps are pretty darn good.
2. The instantaneous load on a receiver is much more than people say it is, and the all channels driven thing isn’t as much of a fallacy as we are lead to believe.

 

[mulester7]

Who is attacking who in the above post? Sure Mtry gets on his high-horse about DBT and Mule pontificates about high horse power amps (not to mention Lincoln Towncars, not my cup of tea but thats ok, I dont have to drive his Towncar and he does not have to drive my TSX). Do I think Mtry gets annoying? Sometimes I do, and then I just ignore the post. As for Mule, he is eloquent, but he does have his heels dug in on his point of view just as much as Mtry does.

.....Nick, I think HiFiHoney's post was right on, just because someone chooses to have a ton of dedicated watts for the sound quality and "voice" doesn't mean you have to crank it wide open and suffer an explosion, and ya' need to ditch that high-fallutin' Toyota log wagon for a GOOD ride.....(chortle)......

 

[Johnd]

Who is attacking who in the above post?

Yes, Nick, I don't think highfihoney was specifically attacking or defending any post in this thread. He was making some valid points that many miss when posting. While argumentation tends to bring out different viewpoints, and that is welcome, some posts argue minutia, or miss the point entirely and go off on tangents (such as, critiquing a job well-done by a novice, rather than simply admiring it for what it is). Also, some posts are more opinion and conjecture, rather than well-reasoned advice. Which is fine, so long as one is clear about that, and so states in their post. Highfihoney's points were well received by me. Cheers!

 

[MacManNM]

hi mule, as everybody is aware im a new guy here on audioholics & i happen to be one of the guys who have heard differences in gear for years,the reasons i see that people dont want to post any positive listening experiences that they have had from running different types of gear are obvious to me as im sure they are to many others.

the very second anybody posts that they heard anything they are attacked & confronted with seudo scientific terminology, dbt links & various nonsensical questions, the same people who so adamantly defend that there are no differences to be heard refuse to let us know anything about their own systems or the gear they have tried that has led them to their own set of beliefs & if you ask them anything about their systems you will be responded to with the same answer (its irrelavent) then you will be blasted with another set of questions, no matter what the answer to any of the questions the nay sayers will find a fault & exploit it then beat the issue to death, boy that sounds like fun.

a member here recently posted some pics in a thread of some very skilled craftsmanship he had done on some speakers he made because he was obviously proud of what he had made & rightly so, the more i read the responses the more i couldnt believe what i was reading, instead of congradulating this man on a job well done some found it necessary to pick apart his design & find fault in it, this man didnt ask for advice, all he was doing was sharing something with the group but he ended up having to defend his design, this type of posting is typical.

in my case here on this site in my first post here i tried to explain the differences between a solid state amp & a tube amp to a member who wanted to try a tube system just for fun,the responses from the nay sayers ranged from calling me (golden ear'd) or accusing me of believing in (snake oil cables) & one nay sayer has felt the need on several ocasions including the thread im talking about to reference my (huge) amplifiers while he tells others that no differences will be heard from amps as long as they are working properly.

nobody in their right mind would want to be subjected to ridicule under the guise of smily faces or hit with a barrage of DBT nonsense just because they reported what they heard.

Yeah that can get annoying.

 

[Nick250]

Yes, Nick, I don't think highfihoney was specifically attacking or defending any post in this thread. He was making some valid points that many miss when posting. While argumentation tends to bring out different viewpoints, and that is welcome, some posts argue minutia, or miss the point entirely and go off on tangents (such as, critiquing a job well-done by a novice, rather than simply admiring it for what it is). Also, some posts are more opinion and conjecture, rather than well-reasoned advice. Which is fine, so long as one is clear about that, and so states in their post. Highfihoney's points were well received by me. Cheers!

John, after carefully reading your comments I am in agreement with your points. You are the voice of reason. I think we could use your skills in the mideast.

Regars, Nick

 

[jcsprankle]

.....Eirepaul, I couldn't agree more, but that's where I draw a line between the two sides of my listening theater....I want my audio side to be ALL it can be, period, letting the video side take care of itself, with my DVD player doing a grand job of upconverting, and cable TV being more than adequate, with both of them cabled directly to my monitor....I could never base a receiver purchase on switching options, or one feature pertaining to video.....

This is where different requirements come in, which is why this is such a fascinating hobby. In my case, for example, video switching is important for me because my TV (last on the upgrade list) has too few inputs for my sources. I have my Playstation2 connected through my VCR because I don't have a free input on my TV and my receiver doesn't handle video. Therefore, I'm planning to get a receiver that can handle that. It's a compromise I'm willing to make.

The beauty, as mentioend before, is that I can upgrade to external power at any time using amps and the receivers pre-amp outputs. Beautiful...

 

[eirepaul]

.....Eirepaul, I couldn't agree more, but that's where I draw a line between the two sides of my listening theater....I want my audio side to be ALL it can be, period, letting the video side take care of itself, with my DVD player doing a grand job of upconverting, and cable TV being more than adequate, with both of them cabled directly to my monitor....I could never base a receiver purchase on switching options, or one feature pertaining to video.....

I am gradually building my system with the same frame of mind. I listen to music 80%, movies 20%. I mostly use my monitor for watching digital cable or for displaying DVD-Audio content. I thought about upgrading to HDTV for the upcoming World Cup soccer tournament, but I'm really pretty satisfied with my current TV. It has an excellent picture with digital cable. I'm going to let HDTV and the various displays mature a bit longer. I spent the money on a better subwoofer, and next upgrade will be the front LR and center.

 

[Pyrrho]

How about factors such as clarity, crispness, detail, etc. Would that get any better with better quality amps? If so, should the outlaw amps be better than the marantz amps?

Unless you are driving your Marantz to clipping, no. If you want greater clarity, etc., I suggest you invest your money in better speakers or in room treatments.

 

[MacManNM]

Unless you are driving your Marantz to clipping, no. If you want greater clarity, etc., I suggest you invest your money in better speakers or in room treatments.

You are so wrong it's not even funny.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

You should have spent your $$$ on an EQ, then you would have had as many different sounds at your fingertip limited by imaginations only.

EQ and amplification. You should hear my truck.

 

[Nick250]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrho
Unless you are driving your Marantz to clipping, no. If you want greater clarity, etc., I suggest you invest your money in better speakers or in room treatments.



McMannm wrote: "You are so wrong it's not even funny."
__________________


I happen to agree with Pyrrho. As I have said in the past, IME what one hears in their listening room is about 90% speaker chioce and room acoustecs. If I really wanted a really significent improvement in sound that is where I would start. YMMV.

Regards, Nick

 

[MacManNM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrrho
Unless you are driving your Marantz to clipping, no. If you want greater clarity, etc., I suggest you invest your money in better speakers or in room treatments.



You are so wrong it's not even funny.
__________________
John

I happen to agree with Pyrrho. As I have said in the past, IME what one hears in their listening room is about 90% speaker chioce and room acoustecs. If I really wanted a really significent improvement in sound that is where I would start. YMMV.

Regards, Nick

I used to think along those lines too. I had a good sounding system. My Yamaha 2500 powering all 5 of my speakers. I didn't go out and buy amps, I had them laying around. I never really push the 2500 too hard, so I didn't think I would hear a huge difference when I hooked up the amps. But I did. I am running amps that are of less power than my receiver (100w/ch for mains, 50w/ch rear). I have my LFE set to crossover at 60Hz, and all speakers set to small. The receiver is running the center chan only. Again, I state that I hear a lot more detail in everything now, even at low levels when I'm not pushing the amps hard. I don't think that going with a better amp is going to improve the sound, but I do believe that using these seperates with this receiver has opened up the sound, and improved the overall sound quality.