Pioneer 94 txh - 7.1 set up - I am royally pissed

[RedCharles]

I'm pretty frustrated right now. I bought a 94txh on craigslist and a Jamo 5.1 for 150 bucks. A good deal. I'm gonna sell the Jamo speakers. Don't have a use for them.

The receiver was made in Nov 2007. 140 watts. MCACC. 7.1 etc. etc. Listed weight is 41 pounds, actual weight is 37. The first rat to be smelled.

I've got six speakers(4 SM45, 2 BS22). No center channel. Dual sub. This is a computer set up. The room is approx 15x12 and because of the low and angular ceilings is only 1200 cubic feet.

So I get it all set up. Add some speakers. Move some stuff around. Tweak some settings. I look through my games. I look through my movies. There is hardly any material that is 7.1. I know that people complained about the dearth of 7.1 stuff out there, but I always thought they were exaggerating.

And so I thought to myself. I'll play Skyrim. The 94txh will upmix the 5.1 to 7.1 and it will be more immersive. But THE UPMIXING COULD NOT BE MORE STUPID. It just sends 99 percent of the sound to the rears and calls it a day. What a bunch bullshit.

I am pissed. Royally pissed. I have had my eye on this receiver for months. I thought that it would solve my problems, but at this point I am really considering going back to a 4.2 sound card/phono/Sony DA2 set up I had before. And hell, I liked the sound of that set up more anyway. The treble is too hot on the 94txh and it won't play as loud at the da2.

I ran the DA2 at a 109 DB and it wasn't a problem. I hadn't even reached max volume. The 94txh won't touch 109db. And here I thought that going from the 100 watts of the DA2 to 140 watts of the 94txh would yield more DB at the very least.

My entry level Pioneer atmos receiver upmixes well. It's got like 80 watts and 7.2 channels. I'm running it in 5.2.2. The front height speakers are located above the TV, at a 45 degree angle, near the ceiling. And when upmixing DTS 5.1 or Dolby 5.1, the sound stage is raised. It works. And for old stuff like Miami Vice BR, I upmix the stereo to extended stereo, very cool. I'm very happy with that receiver. Hell, I should probably experiment. Bring it up to my office and see what it can do.

I expected the 94txh to work on a similar level. For it to make my gaming more immersive. And it didn't. Did I make it mistake? Or is this the way it is?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

What listening mode is it on? Why not add a center channel?

 

[RedCharles]

SB CH Processing, and I have three choices. On, OFF, Auto.

THX processing is no better.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ok. I see why you’re saying. Lol. I’m a casual gamer but I’ve always used a center so to me I’d put one under the monitor and use direct or pro logic II X. I assume SB comin home! Processing in your post is surround back? I guess I’d try auto on that and pliix or direct Or multichannel etc. Multichannel is what popped up on my older Onkyo (circa 2008?) when gaming, or using BD. I set the player to pcm.

 

[RedCharles]

Right, but correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't PL II and all that stuff for upmixing stereo sources to 5.1?

What does multi channel do? I had multi channel on my DA2, but that was all phono. The sound card was the brains behind the 5.1 in that set up. I'm running HDMI pcm right now.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Right, but correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't PL II and all that stuff for upmixing stereo sources to 5.1?

What does multi channel do? I had multi channel on my DA2, but that was all phono. The sound card was the brains behind the 5.1 in that set up. I'm running HDMI pcm right now.

On my Onkyo, “multichannel” came on the display when it received a 5.1 or 7.1ch track from my bd player. Plii is used for upmixing 2.1 to 5.1. PLIIx can take 2.1 or 5.1 and upmix to 7.1 with rear surrounds. PLIIZ upmixes the same but instead utilizes height speakers(not discrete like atmos) above the mains.

I have a pioneer in my bedroom and it works fine for normal BD and satellite stuff, but using it with my PC is kinda weird. Can’t look now but whatever “straight” or “multichannel”(check the manual) type of mode is available would be worth a try. Problem is, I’m not sure how well they’ll work without a CC. Also, did you level match all speakers, and tell the AVR which ones are in use?

 

[lovinthehd]

On my Onkyo, “multichannel” came on the display when it received a 5.1 or 7.1ch track from my bd player. Plii is used for upmixing 2.1 to 5.1. PLIIx can take 2.1 or 5.1 and upmix to 7.1 with rear surrounds. PLIIZ upmixes the same but instead utilizes height speakers(not discrete like atmos) above the mains.

I have a pioneer in my bedroom and it works fine for normal BD and satellite stuff, but using it with my PC is kinda weird. Can’t look now but whatever “straight” or “multichannel”(check the manual) type of mode is available would be worth a try. Problem is, I’m not sure how well they’ll work without a CC. Also, did you level match all speakers, and tell the AVR which ones are in use?

Technically there is no 2.1 so the upmixers like Dolby PLII x or DTS' Neural X work with 2.0 and upmix to available speaker setups, 3.1, 5.1 7.1 etc (think 2.1 is just a stereo mode thing). The newer ones add in the ceiling stuff like Dolby Surround and DTSX. Some avrs have Audyssey DSX upmixers, too (think there's even a THX one). If your avr is receiving multich (LPCM) that may limit your options with applying another soundmode.

 

[everettT]

109db? Very confused. That was a great unit in its day. No issues driving virtually most speakers to their levels. Clearly your confused abouts watts.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Technically there is no 2.1 so the upmixers like Dolby PLII x or DTS' Neural X work with 2.0 and upmix to available speaker setups, 3.1, 5.1 7.1 etc (think 2.1 is just a stereo mode thing). The newer ones add in the ceiling stuff like Dolby Surround and DTSX. Some avrs have Audyssey DSX upmixers, too (think there's even a THX one). If your avr is receiving multich (LPCM) that may limit your options with applying another soundmode.

Lol. Yep. I think it’s just a bad habit of typing 2.1. I did mean mean 2.0. For lpcm in my case, I haven’t had any problems with sound modes but then again I never used any of the thx modes(tried, no buy) and pliix didn’t work great for me either. I’m not sure exactly where OP’s settings are so I was wingin it.

 

[RedCharles]

109db? Very confused. That was a great unit in its day. No issues driving virtually most speakers to their levels. Clearly your confused abouts watts.

A 140 watt receiver should be able to blast more sound out the same speakers than a 100 watt receiver. Am I wrong?

The 92 is quieter that DA2. I can reach max volume on the 92 before saying uncle. I have not gone even near max volume on the DA2.

 

[Leemix]

A 140 watt receiver should be able to blast more sound out the same speakers than a 100 watt receiver. Am I wrong?

The 92 is quieter that DA2. I can reach max volume on the 92 before saying uncle. I have not gone even near max volume on the DA2.

The extra loudness might just be noise, distortion for example.

(Blasting away at those levels is seriously cruel to your ears so might be an idea to dial it down quite a bit if you want to keep them past 30)

 

[Leemix]

Did you do a full factory reset on it before setting up? there might be a max volume limit set. Not familiar with pioneer so dont know where that setting might be in the menu.

Edit: pro logic 2x (or z) might be the right sound mode for upmixing. It probably creates a phantom center if none are set.

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[RedCharles]

The extra loudness might just be noise, distortion for example.

(Blasting away at those levels is seriously cruel to your ears so might be an idea to dial it down quite a bit if you want to keep them past 30)

So what you're saying is that speakers can only get to a certain volume, and the receiver either provides enough juice or it doesn't.

 

[RedCharles]

Did you do a full factory reset on it before setting up? there might be a max volume limit set. Not familiar with pioneer so dont know where that setting might be in the menu.

Edit: pro logic 2x (or z) might be the right sound mode for upmixing. It probably creates a phantom center if none are set.

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No, I had not thought of that. I will check it out.

 

[Leemix]

So what you're saying is that speakers can only get to a certain volume, and the receiver either provides enough juice or it doesn't.

If the speakers or receiver struggle it might cause distortion which can make it sound louder then a clean signal. This might not be the cause but its a posibility. Check if a volume restriction is active also. If we take the watt numbers at face value the dB difference between 100w and 140w isnt much at all depending on the efficiency of the speakers connected.


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[lovinthehd]

Back to the weights first, assuming you're looking it up are you sure you're not comparing a gross weight (including packing) vs the net weight of the unit alone? Sounds like a typical difference between the two.

As to power differences, the difference between 100 and 140 watts is a whopping 1.5 dB. (takes a doubling of power to gain 3dB spl). If there's a huge difference it may not be the amp itself but rather it's input level/sensitivity. If using the same source it somewhat points to the amp input sensitivity level, if a different source, its output level. You might be able to adjust input level on the Pioneer. If the units have dissimilar volume readings that could be part of it. Calibration of the 94 after reset would be a good move, tho.

A 140 watt receiver should be able to blast more sound out the same speakers than a 100 watt receiver. Am I wrong?

The 92 is quieter that DA2. I can reach max volume on the 92 before saying uncle. I have not gone even near max volume on the DA2.

 

[everettT]

A 140 watt receiver should be able to blast more sound out the same speakers than a 100 watt receiver. Am I wrong?

The 92 is quieter that DA2. I can reach max volume on the 92 before saying uncle. I have not gone even near max volume on the DA2.

My point is it only takes a few watts to get loud. I owned that unit and it was as good as it got back then. Either your unit is defective or...

 

[RedCharles]

Ok. I figured it out. I set the playback in windows for 7.1, and I thought that Windows would send a 5.1 or 7.1 signal depending on the source. It doesn't. If I configure Windows to 7.1, it finds the rear speakers and sends the 5.1 mix there (Windows 7). And PLIIx won't kick in because the receiver thinks it's receiving a true 7.1 signal. However, once I set windows to 5.1, PLIIx kicks in and 94txh upmixes.

I got Doom (2016) to work in 7.1 today. I'm not sure why it didn't work yesterday.

I haven't fiddled with the volume settings or reset the receiver.

As far as weight goes, I'm just reading the stats off crutchfield and pioneer.com and the scale in my bathroom.

Tomorrow, I'm going to see if I can cure the treble by using my sound card to connect to the phono inputs on the 94.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ok. I figured it out. I set the playback in windows for 7.1, and I thought that Windows would send a 5.1 or 7.1 signal depending on the source. It doesn't. If I configure Windows to 7.1, it finds the rear speakers and sends the 5.1 mix there (Windows 7). And PLIIx won't kick in because the receiver thinks it's receiving a true 7.1 signal. However, once I set windows to 5.1, PLIIx kicks in and 94txh upmixes.

I got Doom (2016) to work in 7.1 today. I'm not sure why it didn't work yesterday.

I haven't fiddled with the volume settings or reset the receiver.

As far as weight goes, I'm just reading the stats off crutchfield and pioneer.com and the scale in my bathroom.

Tomorrow, I'm going to see if I can cure the treble by using my sound card to connect to the phono inputs on the 94.

The weight per the manual is 37.5 lbs without packaging.

Glad you figured it out. Why do you want to run the output thru the RIAA eq of the phono input?

 

[everettT]

The weight per the manual is 37.5 lbs without packaging.

Glad you figured it out. Why do you want to run the output thru the RIAA eq of the phono input?

I assume he means rca, but you never know