Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[Steve81]

I can't claim to be in the market for speakers at the moment, but given my location in the DC area, I'd be a little curious (and be in danger of losing my audio enthusiast card if I didn't) to hear some of what Philharmonic has to offer. I've actually gotten a chance to hear some of Dennis' work before, ie the Salk Songtower (courtesy of Swerd a couple years back) and thought highly enough of them.

Edit

I'd actually be interested to hear them compared with the bookshelf speakers I've got in my bedroom. They're an interesting piece I got from a startup that didn't make it about six or seven years ago. They were called Alegria Audio Emmas, though I doubt you could find much reference to them these days. Basically they paired a HiVi Ribbon tweeter with an Adire XBL2 6.5" woofer blended with a 4th order XO in a ported enclosure. I think they're a fantastic music speaker, even if they're perhaps not the most accurate speakers on the planet. I didn't bring them to compare with the aforementioned Salks, although I'd daresay they have far more in common sonically than they do with the Klipsch speakers in my basement.

http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=233
http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/Extremis6.8Datasheet.pdf

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I can't claim to be in the market for speakers at the moment, but given my location in the DC area, I'd be a little curious (and be in danger of losing my audio enthusiast card if I didn't) to hear some of what Philharmonic has to offer. I've actually gotten a chance to hear some of Dennis' work before, ie the Salk Songtower (courtesy of Swerd a couple years back) and thought highly enough of them.

Edit

I'd actually be interested to hear them compared with the bookshelf speakers I've got in my bedroom. They're an interesting piece I got from a startup that didn't make it about six or seven years ago. They were called Alegria Audio Emmas, though I doubt you could find much reference to them these days. Basically they paired a HiVi Ribbon tweeter with an Adire XBL2 6.5" woofer blended with a 4th order XO in a ported enclosure. I think they're a fantastic music speaker, even if they're perhaps not the most accurate speakers on the planet. I didn't bring them to compare with the aforementioned Salks, although I'd daresay they have far more in common sonically than they do with the Klipsch speakers in my basement.

Product information:RT1.3 Isodynamic Tweeter
http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/Extremis6.8Datasheet.pdf

Hi Steve Thanks for posting something relevant to the subject matter. This thread veered off into a region of time-space that I'm not familiar with. I am familiar with the drivers in your Alegria monitors, however. I've worked with them both, and they certainly have some admirable attributes. I think it would be a real challenge to get them to mate successfully, and I would be very interested in hearing what the designer was able accomplish. Please feel free to stop my the Wehawken Rd studios most any time. And if you can make it, please bring the Allegria's. I have a remote-controlled A-B volume compensated switching preamp that would let you compare them with most anything intantaneously. I wouldn't try and sell you any speakers. I would just enjoy meeting you and hearing some interesting speakers. Cheers, Dennis

 

[Steve81]

Thanks for the invite Dennis. Fortunately, it's all of a half hour drive, so it's a fairly manageable trek. I imagine I can scrape up some time in the next few weekends to make a visit (though I've got a busy schedule as the father of an active 11 month old, as you might expect). I won't claim to be a particularly acute or picky listener, but I think the designer (Tim Forman) did a pretty darned good job making a speaker that's very enjoyable to listen to.

Here's the sales bit along with a few specs courtesy of the wayback machine

I created Emma because I wanted a speaker that was capable of delivering all the music without the need for a subwoofer and still be relatively small. Emma uses a very special 6 inch mid-woofer utilizing the extraordinary XBL^2 motor giving it an amazing 1 inch peak to peak stroke! Emma is only 17 inches tall, 11 1/2 inches deep, and 9 inches wide yet delivers an amazing 36Hz to 20kHz +/-3db. You won't need to use a subwoofer for the vast majority of music out there with Emma unless you're seeking the subterranean depths.

Impedance is 8 ohms nominal but the reality is the impedance never goes below 8 ohms and has no exaggerated peaks or dips across the frequency range making it an easy load for nearly ANY amplifier, tube or solid state. To get the most out of Emma, use an amplifier with a stout power supply. That doesn't mean hundreds of watts, but something that can handle the transients Emma will deliver without buckling.

It does this at the same time it keeps distortion low. Up to 4 times lower than typical 6" mid-woofers. Sensitivity is 86db per watt at one meter. Because of the XBL^2 motor design this sensitivity is maintained across a wider bandwidth than any other driver made. (See What's so great about XBL^2?)

The 3" planar tweeter picks up where the woofer leaves off and continues smoothly up to 20,000Hz while maintaining excellent off-axis performance. Planar tweeters have a unique clear and sparkling sound and combined with the 6" mid-woofer will create a huge, 3-dimensional soundstage.

On the back, a tuned, high-tech flared port tube helps deliver Emma's deep, powerful bass while keeping air velocity under control. No cheap binding posts here, rather very high quality European-style safety posts that accept banana plugs, spades, pins or bare wire.

Quick Facts:
Finishes - Clear coat natural cherry or gloss black oak
Mid-Woofer – 6” long throw XBL^2
Tweeter – 3” planar with 8 neodymium magnets
Frequency Response – 36 Hz to 20 kHz +/- 3db
Nominal Impedance – 8 ohms
Sensitivity – 86db per watt at one meter
Crossover - 4th order at 3 kHz
Dimensions – 17”H x 9.5”W x 11.5”D
Net Weight – 20 pounds per speaker
Shipping Weight – 30 pounds per speaker
Minimum Recommended Power – 20 watts per channel
Price - $699 per pair plus shipping

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Thanks for the invite Dennis. Fortunately, it's all of a half hour drive, so it's a fairly manageable trek. I imagine I can scrape up some time in the next few weekends to make a visit (though I've got a busy schedule as the father of an active 11 month old, as you might expect). I won't claim to be a particularly acute or picky listener, but I think the designer (Tim Forman) did a pretty darned good job making a speaker that's very enjoyable to listen to.

Here's the sales bit along with a few specs courtesy of the wayback machine

Hi I hope we can get together some time--just let me know when and I'll try and make time (and room--lots of stuff under construction). Thanks for the info. He was forced to cross the woofer pretty high--3 kHz--so I would be interested to hear whether that caused any problems.

 

[Steve81]

Hi Dennis,

PM sent.

 

[Steve81]

For those that might be interested, I did get to visit Dennis / Philharmonic Audio today. Dennis is of course a scholar and a gentleman, and I hope he had as much fun as I did. He's certainly building some impressive speakers in Bethesda.

The A/B comparison was interesting (long story short, while I'd again say my speakers have some similarities in sonic signature, the Phils are in a different class, which isn't terribly surprising all things considered), I got to see some interesting pieces, and I got to see a measurement of my speakers to confirm some of what we were hearing. It was a pretty cool experience.

 

[KEW]

For those that might be interested, I did get to visit Dennis / Philharmonic Audio today. Dennis is of course a scholar and a gentleman, and I hope he had as much fun as I did. He's certainly building some impressive speakers in Bethesda.

The A/B comparison was interesting (long story short, while I'd again say my speakers have some similarities in sonic signature, the Phils are in a different class, which isn't terribly surprising all things considered), I got to see some interesting pieces, and I got to see a measurement of my speakers to confirm some of what we were hearing. It was a pretty cool experience.

How about a pic of your new speakers?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

For those that might be interested, I did get to visit Dennis / Philharmonic Audio today. Dennis is of course a scholar and a gentleman, and I hope he had as much fun as I did. He's certainly building some impressive speakers in Bethesda.

The A/B comparison was interesting (long story short, while I'd again say my speakers have some similarities in sonic signature, the Phils are in a different class, which isn't terribly surprising all things considered), I got to see some interesting pieces, and I got to see a measurement of my speakers to confirm some of what we were hearing. It was a pretty cool experience.

Hi I certainly enjoyed meeting Stephen and listening to his speakers. They use a very high quality woofer from Adire Audio and a planar tweeter from Hi Vi. We listened to a wide variety of program material and flipped back and foth between his monitors and the Philharmonics via my magic A-B volume- compensated, remote-controlled switching preamp. The results depended entirely on the complexity of the program material and the amount of natural ambience in the recording, and, of course, on the amount of bass content below 45 Hz or so. I forget who designed Stephen's monitors, but it's gratifying to see that he and I arrived at the same basic voicing, and that the overall results are more natural than those of many commercial speakers. The Adire woofer is fairly large, and it has to extend a little further up in the treble than is optimal in order to mate with the planar tweeter. But this only proved an issue on complex orchestral material. I would show you the measurements I took of the monitor, but I messed up and switched to a different speaker before I saved the plot. Doh.

 

[Steve81]

How about a pic of your new speakers?

Ahh, I didn't go there to buy, just to listen, satisfy a little curiosity, and have some fun, all of which I managed to accomplish.

Heck, I just appreciated the opportunity to be able to talk about this stuff to someone in person. Getting to listen to some top shelf speakers was just icing on the cake

I can take some shots of the old speakers in the morning though if you want

 

[cpp]

I'm just waiting for Dennis to offer another cabinet design something I can bring in without the wife making a major deal over the design.

 

[KEW]

Ahh, I didn't go there to buy, just to listen, satisfy a little curiosity, and have some fun, all of which I managed to accomplish.

Heck, I just appreciated the opportunity to be able to talk about this stuff to someone in person. Getting to listen to some top shelf speakers was just icing on the cake

I can take some shots of the old speakers in the morning though if you want

Yeah, I forgot Dennis invited you over until I started reading his post! I'd love such an opportunity!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I'm just waiting for Dennis to offer another cabinet design something I can bring in without the wife making a major deal over the design.

Well, I have the cabinet design (transmission line tower, open-back midrange) and all of the drivers are selected, but I can't go any further until Del catches up with the backlog of Phil 3 cabinets. Then he'll build a prototype cabinet and I'll get this thing going.

 

[M S]

Well, I have the cabinet design (transmission line tower, open-back midrange) and all of the drivers are selected, but I can't go any further until Del catches up with the backlog of Phil 3 cabinets. Then he'll build a prototype cabinet and I'll get this thing going.

Dennis,
Nice to see the lite version taking shape. I see you are committed to TL.....can you give a brief explanation (not too technical) of why you use TL rather than anything else?

I copied this from your site, is that the bottom line reason, or are there other benefits?
That’s simply not true because an ML-TL will have a lower tuning frequency, due to its ¼-wavelength resonance, compared to a more cubic-shaped bass reflex box of the same volume and port size.

Thanks,
Marvin

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Dennis,
Nice to see the lite version taking shape. I see you are committed to TL.....can you give a brief explanation (not too technical) of why you use TL rather than anything else?

I copied this from your site, is that the bottom line reason, or are there other benefits?
That’s simply not true because an ML-TL will have a lower tuning frequency, due to its ¼-wavelength resonance, compared to a more cubic-shaped bass reflex box of the same volume and port size.

Thanks,
Marvin

My experience has been that a transmission line tuning can provide deeper bass, and allow placement closer to a rear wall, than a conventional bass reflex tuning. But this requires drivers that are suited to a transmission line application. Fortunately, Scan Speak, Seas, and Peerless produce a number of drivers with appropriate parameters, and I'm also fortunate enough to have the assistance of Paul Kittinger, who has mastered the mathematical models developed by Martin King, and can provide cabinet designs that perform exactly as predicted.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Most of you aren't old enough to remember Bud Fried and his transmission line, series-crossover speakers. He developed quite a cult following, and also started a more upscale company (IMF) that was responsible for getting the famous Quad electrostatic speaker established in the USA. I recently was fortunate enough to get involved in the design of a new Fried speaker for Jim Salk, whose company has been awarded rights to develop products under the Fried and IMF names. The first design--an MTM tower using the same tweeter that was originally devloped for bud Fried,the Hiquphon 0W2 3/4" dome tweeter, and a very high quality 7" woofer from Peerless. Like Fried's original speakers, the new one uses a transmission line cabinet and a series crossover. Many people continue to believe that series crossovers provide tighter integration than the more common parallel topology. I won't take a position on that. But I can say that they are a feaking nightmare to design. Hopefully I got it right and people will like what they hear at the Rocky Mountain Audio Show next week. And if they don't, there's always Philharmonic Audio. Here's an announcement:

http://mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=158128

 

[speakerman19422]

I have built many Fried speaker kits,. The C6 and O6 t-lines are very musical.

 

[macddmac]

Most of you aren't old enough to remember Bud Fried and his transmission line, series-crossover speakers. He developed quite a cult following, and also started a more upscale company (IMF) that was responsible for getting the famous Quad electrostatic speaker established in the USA. I recently was fortunate enough to get involved in the design of a new Fried speaker for Jim Salk, whose company has been awarded rights to develop products under the Fried and IMF names. The first design--an MTM tower using the same tweeter that was originally devloped for bud Fried,the Hiquphon 0W2 3/4" dome tweeter, and a very high quality 7" woofer from Peerless. Like Fried's original speakers, the new one uses a transmission line cabinet and a series crossover. Many people continue to believe that series crossovers provide tighter integration than the more common parallel topology. I won't take a position on that. But I can say that they are a feaking nightmare to design. Hopefully I got it right and people will like what they hear at the Rocky Mountain Audio Show next week. And if they don't, there's always Philharmonic Audio. Here's an announcement:

http://mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=158128

I can't wait to see and hear them next week!
Cheers, Mac

 

[speakerman19422]

I live fairly closed to where Bud had once lived.
I purchased my first kit from him back in 79.

I have compared his parallel designs to the series designs. in my many upgrades.

Fried implemented his first series crossover designs in later C2 and O2 models.
'

 

[GranteedEV]

Most of you aren't old enough to remember Bud Fried and his transmission line

You know us all too well

Many people continue to believe that series crossovers provide tighter integration than the more common parallel topology. I won't take a position on that. But I can say that they are a feaking nightmare to design.

I can only imagine. Everything you do to work on the woofer, you're also affecting the tweeter. The woofer's own VC inductance and DCR might affect the tweeter too.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

You know us all too well



I can only imagine. Everything you do to work on the woofer, you're also affecting the tweeter. The woofer's own VC inductance and DCR might affect the tweeter too.

Exactly. And you really have to do it by trial and error and intuition, because the optimizers on design software programs tend to spin off into outer space when all of those interactions start popping.