PC13 Ultra Value

[Hitchslapped]

For the room, it’s clusterF right now. I’m undecided how I want my furniture, I do have the surrounds and rear surrounds where I want them, but that’s it. I have a modem/router/Hue light system on the right side of the tv (that’s where I have coaxial). On the left side on that old trunk, I have PS4 Pro, and 2 Yamaha receivers. One runs 5 speakers outside and the other runs my 7 channel in the living room.

Room is 18x24 with the partial wall leading to the kitchen.

Im pretty sure I am doing a built in on the right side. That’s the wall to the garage and I can put all the receivers, PS4, modem/router etc.I’m there and have room to do the wiring from the garage. That will leave my entire front space open. That will give me room to move the Cantons wider and better place the subs. Im probably going to take the purple couch away. Here are some pics I took before the Cantons came in and we were patching some holes and painting.

 

[Hitchslapped]

Before I did anything tho, I moved stuff around while doing sweeps with no correction and no filtering (pure direct) to find the best spot possible for my subs and speakers before applying anything. The closer you can get it with a little positional eq the better, easier and less invasive the adjustments and corrections are.

That’s what I’m going to do first, until the DSP comes in. Do you think it’s good to do this with the full speakers as well, or just use positioning and listening to get those the best?

 

[ryanosaur]

That’s what I’m going to do first, until the DSP comes in. Do you think it’s good to do this with the full speakers as well, or just use positioning and listening to get those the best?

To this end, the Sub crawl is best for identifying the best performing (acoustically) spots in your room. I always recommend that you keep your mind open when doing this. Don't decide a spot won't work beforehand. Just listen carefully to how the sub performs as you move around the room and mark the places where the bass sounds best.

 

[Pogre]

That’s what I’m going to do first, until the DSP comes in. Do you think it’s good to do this with the full speakers as well, or just use positioning and listening to get those the best?

I don't think I would be able to hear enough differences to dial anything in by ear, tho @ryanosaur's suggestion to do a sub crawl is the best method I know of to find the initial best spot. You can hear where the bass is strongest doing the crawl, but as far as how flat it is, is where the mic and measuring comes in.

 

[Hitchslapped]

I don't think I would be able to hear enough differences to dial anything in by ear, tho @ryanosaur's suggestion to do a sub crawl is the best method I know of to find the initial best spot. You can hear where the bass is strongest doing the crawl, but as far as how flat it is, is where the mic and measuring comes in.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I mean my tower speakers. I will def do a crawl and then REW. should I use REW to help determine position of my towers or just natural positioning and listening until I get the right spot?

 

[ryanosaur]

If you run Audyssey, you can always turn it off. With the App, it gives you a "before" graph that can be helpful. Plus, it takes care of setting you Levels and Distance/Delay.
You can use REW or that Aud App Graph to help you dial in your speaker position; whichever you find easiest to use.

 

[Pogre]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I mean my tower speakers. I will def do a crawl and then REW. should I use REW to help determine position of my towers or just natural positioning and listening until I get the right spot?

Oh! Oops, lol. Well... when it comes to your towers I think distance and proper toe in are more the focus. Not too close to any walls, as close to an equilateral triangle as you can get. Your room won't have as much an impact on fr with the higher frequencies.

I will say the images of your smaller speakers right up against the fireplace is making my ocd flare up, lol. I'm not a big fan of the one image where your tv is close to the kitchen and kinda high up on the wall either.

 

[ryanosaur]

Agree with @Pogre on most of that.
For toe in, I would say start with the speakers angled just enough so each is pointing just outside of your respective ear. You should be able to see, just a bit of, the inside panel of each speaker. If the highs seem to bright/forward, you can angle them so they are aimed a little wider.
Distance from front wall: I see many say twice the diameter of the port is good. I like 18". You can hear it mostly in the bass: does it sound clean, overemphasized, or boomy/muddy.
We all agree you need to move the speakers further apart, I suggested a minimum of 6' and more like 7-8' if possible.

 

[Hitchslapped]

Yeah I’m new to all of

Oh! Oops, lol. Well... when it comes to your towers I think distance and proper toe in are more the focus. Not too close to any walls, as close to an equilateral triangle as you can get. Your room won't have as much an impact on fr with the higher frequencies.

I will say the images of your smaller speakers right up against the fireplace is making my ocd flare up, lol. I'm not a big fan of the one image where your tv is close to the kitchen and kinda high up on the wall either.

Yeah, I’m new to all of this stuff, so when I first put those bookshelf’s up, it was a disaster. I have 3 kids, all gamers, so I threw up a second tv in the living room, so they weren’t always in their rooms playing. Have another PS4 Pro back there, so as it is ghetto looking, I care more about convenience and ease of use then overall aesthetics. My WAF is not an issue, so I could do whatever I want with no concerns there. I’d rather have the best gaming, HT Experience, music, instead of worrying what some others might think that come over and visit.

 

[Hitchslapped]

Agree with @Pogre on most of that.
For toe in, I would say start with the speakers angled just enough so each is pointing just outside of your respective ear. You should be able to see, just a bit of, the inside panel of each speaker. If the highs seem to bright/forward, you can angle them so they are aimed a little wider.
Distance from front wall: I see many say twice the diameter of the port is good. I like 18". You can hear it mostly in the bass: does it sound clean, overemphasized, or boomy/muddy.
We all agree you need to move the speakers further apart, I suggested a minimum of 6' and more like 7-8' if possible.

I’m going to rearrange today and take your advice. I’d say the bass from just the towers (running 2 channel) seems boomy muddy to me.

 

[Hitchslapped]

If you run Audyssey, you can always turn it off. With the App, it gives you a "before" graph that can be helpful. Plus, it takes care of setting you Levels and Distance/Delay.
You can use REW or that Aud App Graph to help you dial in your speaker position; whichever you find easiest to use.

I have YPAO. Going to run that first, go from there.

 

[Pogre]

You should be able to see, just a bit of, the inside panel of each speaker.

Yup. This is exactly how I have mine toed in right now too. They're not pointing directly at me at MLP and I can see a bit of the inside panels of my speakers from where I sit.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yup. This is exactly how I have mine toed in right now too. They're not pointing directly at me at MLP and I can see a bit of the inside panels of my speakers from where I sit.

I’ve always liked and used this advice. It’s a good starting point and can be easily dialed with a little critical listening. A few years ago I actually stared using a laser level. Held to the inside or outside edge, and pointed at the LP area you can see where your hitting. I even made a jig once for the top of my towers to rest the laser level on to see exactly where my tweeters were hitting. NERD!!!!!
Yes I also used to aim my surrounds that way too.

 

[Pogre]

I’ve always liked and used this advice. It’s a good starting point and can be easily dialed with a little critical listening. A few years ago I actually stared using a laser level. Held to the inside or outside edge, and pointed at the LP area you can see where your hitting. I even made a jig once for the top of my towers to rest the laser level on to see exactly where my tweeters were hitting. NERD!!!!!
Yes I also used to aim my surrounds that way too.

Yeah I know. Thanks to you I now own a laser pointer too... lol.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah I know. Thanks to you I now own a laser pointer too... lol.

Lol! Glad I could contribute to your slight insanity brother.

 

[CajunLB]

Don't think he's got 3' to work with. Unless the Subs go to the Inside

Why insult the man ? I’m sure he has more than 3” to work with.

 

[ryanosaur]

As OP has mentioned, Towers on the front wall are sounding boomy... I will continue to recommend getting those subs away from the front!

@Hitchslapped along with the previously mentioned considerations of spacing your speakers and the standoff distance from the front wall, please keep in mind that nearness to the sidewalls will also have a similar effect as having the speakers too close to the front.
Again, just using my situation as an example only, my room is 11'w, I have the mains ~6' apart on center, and 32" away from the side walls. My situation is especially unique as the speaker cabinets are very deep, and the terminus on the top back is only ~24" from the side walls.
I find in my room that the bass begins ramp up significantly if I push them much further out to the side. I had to take the compromise position of having them a little closer thsn I would like in order to prevent that boomy/muddy sound from getting them too close to the corners of the room. Along with that, my Subs are not on the front wall.
I only share this to help assure you that there are always options for setting up your system that lie outside of the normal recommendations.

I hope you are having fun playing around!

 

[mazersteven]

Just a Suggestion.

Place one Sub under the Window and one Opposite on Wall. See if that works

The Art of Subwoofer Placement | SVS

Tips on where to place a subwoofer for best performance possible.

www.svsound.com

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I’m going to rearrange today and take your advice. I’d say the bass from just the towers (running 2 channel) seems boomy muddy to me.

You might want to make sure the towers have a 40 to 80hz crossover instead of setup as full. Then run the Sub with LFE without mains. This may reduce the bass boom.

 

[Hitchslapped]

You might want to make sure the towers have a 40 to 80hz crossover instead of setup as full. Then run the Sub with LFE without mains. This may reduce the bass boom.

I did do this, thanks