dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
Also Sheep I'd like to point out that despite you suggesting I didn't read what you were saying about the older driver, I actually did note this in my response by quoting what SVS themselves had to say about the NEW driver.
Just saying it's a new driver means very little to me when you can't show any sort of tests to explain how the new driver has helped. Has it added 1% less THD, 1Hz more extension, 1dB more output efficiency?
D'ya know what I mean?

By the way, the Leafs got Perrault, so the cup will be in Toronto. :( (At least the one in the HHOF)

Anyway it was you I believe that first steered me away from both the Martin Logan Depth and the Seismic 12, so my thanks. I am very, very happy with the Servo 15v2. :)
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
SVS is only telling you so much about the new driver. It is as good as the old Ultra driver. They just don't want to say it because then people would be buying the Plus series and not the ultra.

If I had all the money in the world I would own many subwoofers, including any good ID subs.

I think you guys need to really play around with test tones and see just what frequencies are still audible. Even around 30 hertz it gets hard to actually hear the note.

Last time I checked, the +/-3dB rating for the Servo-15 was 19Hz, not 12hz.



Signle driver plus with dB12.2 driver, 18Hz. Audible difference? Hell no, but since you seem to think it is, I will say so for the sake of arguement.



SheepStar
 
B

BabelFish

Full Audioholic
if I was a dog and my name was ID.. All I would hear is:

"blah, blah! blah ID... blah blah ID. blah, ID blah. blah blah ID..."

What is ID? :)
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
if I was a dog and my name was ID.. All I would hear is:

"blah, blah! blah ID... blah blah ID. blah, ID blah. blah blah ID..."

What is ID? :)
ID = Internet Direct ie: av123,hsu and svs:D lol
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
SVS is only telling you so much about the new driver. It is as good as the old Ultra driver. They just don't want to say it because then people would be buying the Plus series and not the ultra.
Okay we'll just take that subjective opinion as biblical word shall we?
I think you guys need to really play around with test tones and see just what frequencies are still audible. Even around 30 hertz it gets hard to actually hear the note.
The AV Talk tests use test tones. I know what feeling a note instead of hearing it is like, because that's the kind of sub I own. Do you own a sub that hits below 20Hz?
Last time I checked, the +/-3dB rating for the Servo-15 was 19Hz, not 12hz.
Signle driver plus with dB12.2 driver, 18Hz. Audible difference? Hell no, but since you seem to think it is, I will say so for the sake of arguement.
Je suis tres confused. Where is it I said anything of the sort? What I said was that the THD on the SVS will be more noticeable than that of the Servo 15v2. I am claiming that THD over over 10% will produce noticeable artifacts. You are the one disagreeing on that point, going against Mullen's tests that you produce graphs from.
Also what I said was that the Servo15 has usable extension down to 12Hz, not what the +/-3dB reading is, which is 18.3Hz > 150 Hz on AV Talk and 17.5Hz > 94.4Hz for the Plus.
What amazes me is that you write off the lower end THD as being so irrelevant when you're not even listening to one yourself.

Plus THD -


Servo 15 THD -


It sure looks to me like the Servo has more controlled output and goes just as deep. The non-servo controlled SVS has substantially more THD at higher output levels, which is what you do not want for your extended rumblings like the tank scene in Saving Private Ryan and/or passages of meandering double bass solos.

Is the THD still low compared to other subs? Hell yes. Sticking under 10% at higher outputs is a lot harder than most people realise. Just look at the Pioneer sub they tested as a joke.

Pioneer THD -



But compare the SVS Subs tested and the Paradigm Sig Servo to some of the other more high end subs as well and you'll see that they're doing some pretty damn good things.

The US$3500 M&K MX350 MkII THD -


The US$3000 B&W ASW850 THD -


The US$6000 Focal-JMLab Utopia Sub Be THD -


The Servo bests them all.
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
One should also keep in mind that when it comes to HT the fidelity is far less than SACD and DVD-Audio music. The tank from SPR may sound good at 768 Kbps DTS, but when it comes out with a PCM, TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio track, that's when the advantage of a quick sub with low distortion will become even more apparent.

The quality of the HT tracks on Blu-ray blows the DD 448 Kbps DVD tracks out of the water.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Okay we'll just take that subjective opinion as biblical word shall we?
I heard that From Eric, who works for SVS.

The AV Talk tests use test tones. I know what feeling a note instead of hearing it is like, because that's the kind of sub I own. Do you own a sub that hits below 20Hz?
My sub (Velodyne DPS-12) in the movies setting reaches down to 25Hz around -3dB. I also have it placed near-field so more then just sub sonic bass vibrates my couch.

Je suis tres confused. Where is it I said anything of the sort? What I said was that the THD on the SVS will be more noticeable than that of the Servo 15v2. I am claiming that THD over over 10% will produce noticeable artifacts. You are the one disagreeing on that point, going against Mullen's tests that you produce graphs from.
Also what I said was that the Servo15 has usable extension down to 12Hz, not what the +/-3dB reading is, which is 18.3Hz > 150 Hz on AV Talk and 17.5Hz > 94.4Hz for the Plus.
What amazes me is that you write off the lower end THD as being so irrelevant when you're not even listening to one yourself.
I prefer sticking with +/-3dB when considering a subwoofers performance. If you don't, then Definitive Technology's subwoofers would also be considered "good" :D.

You can claim 10% THD makes a difference, but you're really just regurgitating what Ed Mullen said. Until you ACTUALLY do a controlled test with a subwoofer at 10% and the same subwoofer at more or less, you can't say for sure there is a difference. From speaking with WmAx (who's opinion I trust over pretty much anyone else regarding sound), I came to the conclusion that THD down that low isn't noticeable.

What do you mean by this "What amazes me is that you write off the lower end THD as being so irrelevant when you're not even listening to one yourself"?

I have heard subwoofers with high THD numbers (I own one), and I've heard subwoofer with low THD (I wish I owned one). Yeah, they can sound different, but the THD numbers on my sub are in the 30% region above 35Hz (when being pushed). Neither the SVS or Paradigm subwoofers mentioned have this characteristic, making the difference in audible performance come from something else.

Also, something I would like to throw in the mix, is the use of a Servo. They are great for lowering THD, but only if the driver used has a lot of THD to begin with. Throwing a servo on a linear driver (JL W7, TC Sounds LMS-5400, etc) would only hog up extra power. Thats why servo subs have high amp ratings. Most of it goes into the servo so it can correct the drivers flaws.

As far as fast subs, they're called midranges and tweeters. ;)

SheepStar
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Don't know if it was mentioned yet, but Ed Mullen also works for SVS now...

If you want to hear SPR for real, see if you can find the DTS demo disc that has The Alamo scene on it, that is 1509K.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
Yall are still cracking me up. I will sale you my old Sony HTIB sub for a buck if you will quit comparing the SVS and Servo.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
X subwoofer owner:
"I have X subwoofer, all youse with Y and Z subwoofers should die"

Y subwoofer owner:
"My Y subwoofer is 10,000 times better than your X subwoofer, it will eat it for breakfast"

Z subwoofer owner:
"my Z subwoofer can cook my breakfast"

actual conversation from AVS forum I try to avoid ... :D (sarcastic of course)

well, I own X Y Z subwoofers and all youse should just ...
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
.....well, I own X Y Z subwoofers and all youse should just ...
Actually, I though you owned a few other letters of the alphabet, too.

(What's one more sub in your house?)
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
the wife is asking me if I wanted the SB12 plus for my birthday ... hahaha, I can't believe I'm hesitating.
 
B

BabelFish

Full Audioholic
the wife is asking me if I wanted the SB12 plus for my birthday ... hahaha, I can't believe I'm hesitating.
how many amps do you own? how do you power all of them? do you have a dedicated breaker for them?
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
the wife is asking me if I wanted the SB12 plus for my birthday ... hahaha, I can't believe I'm hesitating.

You know, eventually there won't be enough room in your signature to show all your subs :p
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
Babelfish

no I don't have a dedicated breaker, but it does help that we have 220v here, and most my amps and subwoofers are class d.

were you asking about my amps or subwoofers?
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
Major, I figure I got about 5 more subs before I need to resize the sig :)
 
Last edited:
B

BabelFish

Full Audioholic
were you asking about my amps or subwoofers?
Sorry that should have read, "how many subs do you own?" (I was writing on my phone in the car... :) Wasn't paying attention...)
 
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