Paradigm Poor Customer Service

[krisg]

*****
Please go to the following thread after reading this one. I have edited this to end it and move on to the conclusion of this situation.

Feel free to read on, but most important read the following thread...

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18195

*****

A few weeks ago I was watching "War Of The Worlds". About half way through the movie I started hearing a clacking sound as the bass level fell off. Shortly there was nothing but a loud clacking sound replacing the bass output. I reminded me of the sound of smacking two billiard balls together. It sounded like the suspension failed allowing the voice coil to bottom out.

Confused... My Paradigm PS-1200 sub was only 2 years old. I purchased it at a reduced price because it was a demo model. The sub input level is set to about half way. The receiver (Denon 3501) volume level was running at approximately -10 to -15 range. The level for the sub in the speaker balance setting was set to zero. Nothing excessive. As a matter of fact, quite mild compared to how I have driven previous speaker systems that I built myself. I wasn't driving it nearly as loud as the salesperson who demoed the unit at Sensuous Sounds in Tampa. My living room is only 14 x 16 and doesn't require an exceptional amount of energy to fill it up. My wife was even confused, she usually pays little attention to these kind of issues. She didn't understand how it could have failed because it wasn't being driven that hard. We were able to make conversation/commentary during the movie without much effort.

I took the unit back to Sensuous Sound and explained the situation. The sales person I spoke with (very nice to me by the way) said not a problem the unit has a five year warranty. The failed component would be identified and replaced by Paradigm. I should have it back in a few weeks. I was actually very satisfied with what the salesman told me and I purchased another pair of Paradigm Titans. If I only knew what was coming next.

A few days later I received a call from their technician. I was told that the woofer voice coil was damaged and that it is not considered a manufacturers defect. They could replace the driver for $180 plus labor and tax. I told him, after letting him know what a lousy design this subwoofer is, no thanks Paradigm has already taken enough of my money. I have Paradigms around the rest of my room. I was little upset that the technician proceeded to tell me that I was basically abusing the unit.

Two problems here. 1) Paradigm not backing their designs. 2) Sensuous Sound not backing the products they sell.

Bottom Line:
This sub sure doesn't live up to it's brochure and casts serious doubt on the quality of their whole line. I for one will never purchase another piece of Paradigm equipment. Additionally, I will discourage others from making the same mistake I have.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

After hearing this story from KrisG,( someone who is a personal friend as well) and my experiences at Cedia 2 years ago, my lousy designed CC370, and all the other stuff we all know about, I will never own another piece of Paradigm stuff again. I will at some point sell everything I have and switch brands. They have left an extremely sour taste with me.

 

[dponeill]

If you had been the only user you might have a valid point. But since the sub was a demo, you have no idea how badly abused it was before you bought it. Just because it failed while you were using it doesn't mean that it didn't sustain the damage before you got it. I think that your beef should be with the dealer and not Paradigm.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

If you had been the only user you might have a valid point. But since the sub was a demo, you have no idea how badly abused it was before you bought it. Just because it failed while you were using it doesn't mean that it didn't sustain the damage before you got it. I think that your beef should be with the dealer and not Paradigm.

That is completely not correct. I have purchased many floor models that were under full manufactures warranty. My mini monitors I bought in florida were a floor model and the rep was in the store the day I bought them. When the salesman saw me hedge a bit because they were a floor model the rep assured me they would be under warranty. If paradigm won't warranty his sub, then the store should. Not to mention he had the sub for 2 years before it failed, it was still under warranty. The fact of the matter is it was a piece of junk, and paradigm won't back what they sell.

Compare that to when I had a pair of Klipsch dual 6 1/2 two-ways, the first models with the tractrix tweeters. I had a woofer go bad on a pair of floor models none the less. I called Klispch and they overnighted me a new woofer no questions asked other than where I bought it and what was the serial numbers. Now that is good customer service.

 

[gene]

The warranty still falls to the manufacturer. The dealer is only serves as the intermediate. The driver should be covered and this is a sad situation for the user, especially since its essentially chump change to the manufacturer to fix and also ensures brand loyalty which they just lost from this person.

 

[krisg]

If you had been the only user you might have a valid point. But since the sub was a demo, you have no idea how badly abused it was before you bought it. Just because it failed while you were using it doesn't mean that it didn't sustain the damage before you got it. I think that your beef should be with the dealer and not Paradigm.

Buy at own risk. I was informed of a full warrant after expressing your mentioned concern. Comtrast... My dad once owned a used pair of Klipsch speakers. After owning them for about 8 years the tweeter failed. Klipsch replaced the tweeter free of charge saying it should have never failed.

There are many better units for the same price as paradigm. I was stupid enough to fall for their advertising and thinking I was getting a good deal on the demo unit. Sensuous Sound is a high end store. Things don't get abused as you speak, at least that weas my impression.

I guess I should expand my statement. I will sway anyone from buying Pradigm equipment and any other equipment from Sensuous Sound.

 

[Sheep]

You all know its because you hate Canadians....admit it!

That is unfortunate. However, I have never had any problems regarding warrenty where I buy sound equipment. I had a sub replaced without even showing the recipt.

SheepStar

 

[krisg]

You all know its because you hate Canadians....admit it!

That is unfortunate. However, I have never had any problems regarding warrenty where I buy sound equipment. I had a sub replaced without even showing the recipt.

SheepStar

Are you talking about Paradigm equipment?

 

[Sheep]

Are you talking about Paradigm equipment?

No this was an Energy subwoofer.

SheepStar

 

[gene]

I was stupid enough to fall for their advertising and thinking I was getting a good deal on the demo unit. Sensuous Sound is a high end store. Things don't get abused as you speak, at least that weas my impression.

When I attended USF, I went to Sensous Sounds on a few occasions. Personally the only thing I bought from them were CD's b/c of their excellent prices. They pushed Paradigm products a lot over there so I am really surprised that Paradigm wasn't more accomodating especially given their huge marketing budget.

Though I guess it isn't too shocking since we have heard other similar stories about Paradigm as evident in this thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10873&highlight=paradigm+customer

 

[krisg]

No this was an Energy subwoofer.

SheepStar

There ya go. I also once had a pair of JBL L40s. I blew the tweeter. They replaced it under warranty no questions.

I've been spoiled by good customer support. Paradigm has a different idea of customer support.

I mentioned to the technician at Sensuous Sound that Paradigm cut corners on quality to maximize profit. That's why the sub failed. And repairing my sub would cut into their bottom line and that is what seems most important to them.

All I can say is they got what they wanted - max prophet. Unfortunately they lost me and many others. Because I am the audio guy for most of my friends and family Paradigm have lost many recommendations.

 

[jmanlp]

Did you try to talk to anybody else at Paradigm to get a better explanation of why this wouldn't be covered under warranty? I just cant see a company in the mid-high end audio field not backing up their product, I mean its not like you abused it, and even if you did abuse it, don't a lot of companies give you a driver replacement for free if it's in the warranty period? I must be Klipsch spoiled also, love my Klipsches...

 

[MacManNM]

You might also want to call Paradigm and tell them the amp in the sub is bad too. If you weren't playing it at loud levels, then there is something wrong with it. Maybe passing some DC or something. I am supprised they never asked you about this.

 

[j_garcia]

War of the Worlds, the DTS track in particular, is definitely one that could damage a sub. Just because you don't think you were pushing doesn't mean the sub wasn't operating outside it's capability.

I have never had any problems with Paradigm and their warranty, but it was also always handled by my dealer in the rare case that I even had an issue. A friend did something stupid and fried his tweeters. His speakers were out of warranty and Paradigm still replaced them free of charge.

Just because YOU had a bad experience with Paradigm and you are mad about it doesn't mean you can make assumptions about the rest of their gear. It does sound like you abused the sub, even if it was accidental, and that doesn't mean that Paradigm did something wrong.

If the amp failed and damaged the driver, that may be something else entirely, but I would think they would have found that while they were looking at it.

 

[WmAx]

You should refer Paradigm(call corporate office, don't deal with the tech support people) to this website, and this thread in particular. Tell them of your situation, give them your name, your screename here, and give them the URL. Often companies will be willing to correct a problem that they otherwise would not if they realize it is causing them substantial potential damage(s). In this case, it appears that they have alrady lost a substantial number of sales by refusing to replace a driver(that probably costs them an actual $30-$60) in a faulty subwoofer system.

-Chris

 

[MacManNM]

War of the Worlds, the DTS track in particular, is definitely one that could damage a sub. Just because you don't think you were pushing doesn't mean the sub wasn't operating outside it's capability.

I have never had any problems with Paradigm and their warranty, but it was also always handled by my dealer in the rare case that I even had an issue. A friend did something stupid and fried his tweeters. His speakers were out of warranty and Paradigm still replaced them free of charge.

Just because YOU had a bad experience with Paradigm and you are mad about it doesn't mean you can make assumptions about the rest of their gear. It does sound like you abused the sub, even if it was accidental, and that doesn't mean that Paradigm did something wrong.

If the amp failed and damaged the driver, that may be something else entirely, but I would think they would have found that while they were looking at it.

When Buck and I went to SVS, we saw Drivers that were totally destroyed. As a MFGR, SVS was out to make their customers happy, they replaced the broken units no questions asked. As far as abuse, it shouldn't matter, one should be able to beat the hell out of their equipment and it should take the beating, if it is well designed.

 

[Sheep]

When Buck and I went to SVS, we saw Drivers that were totally destroyed. As a MFGR, SVS was out to make their customers happy, they replaced the broken units no questions asked. As far as abuse, it shouldn't matter, one should be able to beat the hell out of their equipment and it should take the beating, if it is well designed.

I disagree.

I abused a subwoofer, and I didn't expect a free driver. Besides, it doesn't take very long to learn you subwoofers limits. And once you know, you should not go past them.

If all companys warrented stuff that was user error they would go broke.

"how did it break?"

"Oh I was playing a 10Hz sinewave and then it broke...."

"Sorry we don't cover that. If you want that coverage, you need to purchase are Idiot user extended warrenty. This warrenty will allow you to take a piss on are equipment and we will still replace it, free of charge."

"Oh, how much is it?"

"50 ho-gillion dollars"

"hello...?"

SheepStar

 

[MacManNM]

I disagree.

I abused a subwoofer, and I didn't expect a free driver. Besides, it doesn't take very long to learn you subwoofers limits. And once you know, you should not go past them.

If all companys warrented stuff that was user error they would go broke.

"how did it break?"

"Oh I was playing a 10Hz sinewave and then it broke...."

"Sorry we don't cover that. If you want that coverage, you need to purchase are Idiot user extended warrenty. This warrenty will allow you to take a piss on are equipment and we will still replace it, free of charge."

"Oh, how much is it?"

"50 ho-gillion dollars"

"hello...?"

SheepStar

No, a warranty is a warranty, real companies back up their products. If a sub won't play a 10Hz sinewave, then they should have built a filter into it. If it is one self contained unit (like a sub) then there is no excuse for this, now if it was a pair of regular loudspeakers, and someone pumped in more than they could take then that is a different story. This replacement cost is built into the cost of the sub, as Chris said, that driver cost them ~$30 (prob more like 10-15), there is no reason for them not to replace it.

 

[Sheep]

No, a warranty is a warranty, real companies back up their products. If a sub won't play a 10Hz sinewave, then they should have built a filter into it. If it is one self contained unit (like a sub) then there is no excuse for this, now if it was a pair of regular loudspeakers, and someone pumped in more than they could take then that is a different story. This replacement cost is built into the cost of the sub, as Chris said, that driver cost them ~$30 (prob more like 10-15), there is no reason for them not to replace it.

It depends on the warrenty.

Limited warrenty's will cover the product under certain circumstances. As a matter of fact, All warrentys have guidelines. Go outside them, warrenty void.

Its pretty simple. If you can't take care of a product, you shouldn't own it.

SheepStar

 

[eirepaul]

It depends on the warrenty.

Limited warrenty's will cover the product under certain circumstances. As a matter of fact, All warrentys have guidelines. Go outside them, warrenty void.

Its pretty simple. If you can't take care of a product, you shouldn't own it.

SheepStar

You are being pretty unreasonable about this. Paradigm should have provided better customer service than they showed here.