overrated/underrated Performers

zipper · Feb 18, 2004

It's hard to judge an obscure artist. Would like to hear some of his stuff. What are your opinions of Pat Thrall & Al Dimeola?

Rob Babcock · Feb 19, 2004

I'd hardly call him (cough!) obscure!  Not as well known nowadays as he deserves to be, but got his fans.  I've not heard Thrall a lot, but I like DeMeola.  You could say he's a bit reminiscent of DeMeola.

jeffsg4mac · Feb 19, 2004

Al Dimeola, is one those artist that must be seen live, his recorded stuff just does not capture how awesome he is. Pat Metheny on the other hand, is good both live and recorded.

Wabbit_Swayer · Feb 19, 2004

Underrate:

Victor Wooten. He is the bassist for Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. He more or less made that band huge. If Jaco Pastorius is the Godfather of bass guitar, then Victor perfected it.

Overrate:

Every single new punk pop band is all $hit IMO. No skill in any aspect. Its amazing what a shred of talent, with millions of dollars of promoting, along with a great recording studio can do. like good charlette and american rejects, talk about suicide of sound.

A. Vivaldi · Feb 20, 2004

jeffsg4mac : Vivaldi, I only disagree with one of your overates, Stevie Ray Vaughn. WTF man he was the greatest blues guitarist to yet live. Have you ever seen him play? Much better than Johnny Winter, or Robert Cray or even Buddy Guy. They man was amazing to see play, and that is coming from a Pat Metheny, Al DeMiola, Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton, Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, Earl Klugh, Peter Frampton, Russ Freeman Junkie

There was also some talent in the 70's rock bands, STYX, Journey were very solid musically and lyrically speaking as well as a handful of others. Most of your list I agree with though.

I agree that Stevie Ray was one of the best blues guitarists around, but I don't feel his songwriting and vocal style equaled his guitar playing. I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of the blues (love the music/hate the singing), so it was probably unfair for me to include him on my list. I just think that the blues as a genre is overrated all together.

A. Vivaldi · Feb 20, 2004

zipper : I agree with many of your picks(Stones,Dave Matthews),but Pearl Jam? Not.Stevie Ray?Not.King Crimson?Not.
Personally, I think REO Speedwagon was a little underrated.It appears to me that you like deep complicated music,as do I,but I also like good solid R & R like Pat Travers,Judas Priest,UFO,etc.
I'm also a big fan of Supertramp.Seen them 3 times.How about ELO?

I do like REO, ELO and Supertramp. I have their greatest hits albums. Their ratio of mediocre to good output is high though, but I'd rather listen to them then some on my overrated list.

A. Vivaldi · Feb 20, 2004

Rob Babcock : BTW, though, they are near the top of my most overrated in history, along w/the King of Everrated Musicians, Jimi Hendrix. Also starring: Bob Marley, Madonna, The Rolling Stones, Bob Seger & Dave Mathews.

I'd say Rush is definately underrated, as are XTC, Allan Holdsworth, Joe Satriani & Drivin' N Cryin'.

I almost was going to include Jimi Hendrix on my overrated list but when I thought about how great his first three albums really are I just couldn't. I will say however that those three albums are the only ones a person really needs to have. Forget about all the live stuff and the post-humous crap.

EdR · Feb 20, 2004

jeffsg4mac : Oh come now, the beatles were the most overrated band of them all, They sucked in every way possible, talent wise, music wise, lyric wise, fidelity wise, they sucked man. Their music was crap! There is/was not a talent among them. OK end of rant

OK.. I must preface this by saying, that even in the 60's, I never really cared for the Beatles. However, I used to listen to a radio show called 'Adventures in Good Music' hosted by Carl Haas. It was really excellent, he's both a musician and serious musicologist. Normally he'd be introducing us to obscure 19th century composers, or some such. I do remember him devoting an entire show to the Beatles (he almost never did 'pop' type music), and saying that serious musicologist's will be studying their music for years to come. Considering the source, I have to take that opinion seriously.

I also remember him making a sly dig at audiophiles when he played an old Caruso recording (from about 1911) and apologizing for the quality, but saying that those of us who really love music listen through the defects to the genius beneath.

I must also comment on the Doors. There are some performers who have such charisma and stage presence that their performances are transformed, and one is transported into some sort of musical other world. I have had this experience only three times in my life. I had the opportunity to hear Artur Rubenstein in recital (in his 80's no less), Carl Richter conduct the SF symphony in Bach's Mass in B minor, and the Doors perform live.

And yes, I'd rank the Doors with the other two. Whatever their magic was, it didn't quite make it onto the records. Actually, neither did Rubenstein, though his recording are quite good. When he played, he made very audible mistakes, and you simply didn't care. They were genius mistakes.

A. Vivaldi · Feb 20, 2004

hopjohn : Other's worth mention

Underateds
Dire Straits
E.L.O.
Stray Cats
Blues Traveler
Much of Classical music, Brahms, R. Strauss, Liszt and more

Overrateds
Madonna
Michael Jackson; guilty or not
Van Halen; post Roth

I totally agree with you on J. Brahms And R. Strauss. I love Lizst's Hungarian Rhapsodies and Totentanz, but most of his other works are boring. Another overrated guy is Hayden. The works I've heard by him have so far have failed to move me in any way. I love Beethoven and Tchaikovsky but some of their stuff can drag on a bit too long.

A. Vivaldi · Feb 20, 2004

zumbo : David Bowie? Bob Dylan? Tom Petty? Aw, thats going to p!$$ someone off!

My brother hates Bob Dylan, whom I like, (overrated after 1969) but loves Tom Petty. I don't understand. Nobody sounds more like Dylan vocal wise then Tom Petty! Go figure.

A. Vivaldi · Feb 20, 2004

EdR : I must also comment on the Doors. There are some performers who have such charisma and stage presence that their performances are transformed, and one is transported into some sort of musical other world. I have had this experience only three times in my life. I had the opportunity to hear Artur Rubenstein in recital (in his 80's no less), Carl Richter conduct the SF symphony in Bach's Mass in B minor, and the Doors perform live.

And yes, I'd rank the Doors with the other two. Whatever their magic was, it didn't quite make it onto the records. Actually, neither did Rubenstein, though his recording are quite good. When he played, he made very audible mistakes, and you simply didn't care. They were genius mistakes.

Sir, let me just say that I'm honored to share this board with someone who has seen the mighty Rubinstein, the B minor Mass (the greatest piece of music written?) and The Doors live. Isn't it funny how when some musicians are extremely respected, like Hendrix or The Beatles, there's always a few who passionatly hate them? As far as The Doors charisma and presence go, from what I seen I'd say that was all because of the antics of one man... Jim Morrison. He seemed more interested in causing a stir then caring about music, as do the cult like fans who worship him. He reminds me of a 60's version of Madonna. After Jim Morrison died, the remaining Doors actually came out with another album in 1972, which failed miserably at the time and is almost completely forgotten today. It kinda showed that there really were no "The Doors", only Jim Morrison. Some bands survive the loss of their members. As an example, the band Genesis not only survived the loss of their charismatic lead singer (Peter Gabriel) but actually became more famous and prosperous (monetarily wise). This was due to their sheer musical ability, which The Doors somewhat lacked, but none of the members were more lacking then ole Jimmy himself, who was often too stoned to remember his lines or stand up straight to sing, and I much prefer the keyboard work of Ray Manzarek and the contributions of the other members over the overrated Mr. Morrison, but I've only heard their studio output. I wasn't there at the time, but considering that most rock bands suck live, I don't think The Doors would've been a revelation.

EdR · Feb 20, 2004

A. Vivaldi : As far as The Doors charisma and presence go, from what I seen I'd say that was all because of the antics of one man... Jim Morrison. He seemed more interested in causing a stir then caring about music, as do the cult like fans who worship him. He reminds me of a 60's version of Madonna. After Jim Morrison died, the remaining Doors actually came out with another album in 1972, which failed miserably at the time and is almost completely forgotten today.

All I can say, is that while I liked the Door's music, I was hardly a 'passionate fan', even then- they happened to be playing in my town, and I was looking for something to do on a date.  While I was expecting 'good', and, if memory serves, it was after the famous pants dropping episode, perhaps something amusing to talk about, but I was hardly expecting musical satori.

 While it was 'Jimmy', there were no antics that night.  It was simply one of the greatest performances I've ever seen, and I still remember the feeling over 30 years later, and no... I don't even own a Doors CD at the moment.  

I mean...like... I was there,  Dude.  I have no idea if this was the norm for the Doors performances, or if they'd gotten into some exceptionally good 'stuff' that night- (and no.. I hadn't, never touched the stuff, so the only 'high' for me was the music).

EdR · Feb 20, 2004

I have to add one more underated band to the mix.

The Clash.  

While I agree with Gene about Niverna, I don't tar the entire genre.  To me, the 80's alternative scene was musically very exciting.  And while I hardly noticed the departure of Mr. Colbain (sp?), I've heard some excellent cuts from Ms. Love and Hole.

While not exactly garage grunge, tracks to check out if you get a chance:

Add it up - Violent Femmes
Punk Rock Girl - Dead Milkmen
and darn near anything by the Smiths

Some excellent music.

Shinerman · Feb 20, 2004

Wow, just found this thread.  

A. Vivaldi,

I am glad you cleared that up about SRV.  I was getting ready to track you down and do bad things.

Seriously though,  yes his songs were little cheesy at times but that's not why you listened to SRV.  You listened to here him play.  His singing and song writing were secondary.  You can't say that about to many musicians.  SRV was the best Blues guitarists ever IMHO.

"To me, he's one of the greatest blues singers there ever was. I'm very sad because I wish he were here. But his music will never die. He's one of the greatest blues musicians that ever picked up a guitar." "

John Lee Hooker

Not bad.  

Shinerman

Rip Van Woofer · Feb 20, 2004

I am shocked that Lawrence Welk has not been mentioned. His little-known and unjustly neglected masterpiece, the two LP "Play That Funky Accordion, White Boy" (aka "the Beige Album&quot

was the apotheosis of the disco era!

EdR · Feb 20, 2004

And leave us not forget the great Frankie Yankovic, King of the Polka.

zumbo · Feb 20, 2004

Elvis $u(ked!

Yeap! I said it!

Y'all scared?

Shinerman · Feb 20, 2004

Fine, I admit it.   Yanni is incredible.  One of the most underated musicians of our ti.......... Oh man, I almost got through that without laughing.   TRUST ME, I AM LAUGHING, REALLY!

Shinerman

A. Vivaldi · Feb 20, 2004

EdR : 

While I agree with Gene about Niverna, I don't tar the entire genre. To me, the 80's alternative scene was musically very exciting. And while I hardly noticed the departure of Mr. Colbain

I also agree that the grunge bands were overrated, but compared to the truly awful hair metal bands that preceded them and were subsequently wiped off the face of the earth by them, they were a God send. (I'm currently waiting for another genre to wipe out the current crop of Hip Hop/Pop/Rap crap that's been plaguing the music scene for far to long) Towards the very end, Nirvana actually started to get pretty good. What a shame. Dave Grohl certainly went on to bigger and better things didn't he?

A. Vivaldi · Feb 20, 2004

zumbo : Elvis $u(ked!

Yeap! I said it!

Y'all scared?

I've never understood all the hoopla over Elvis. "The King Of Rock"

More like the king of country. Except for a couple of songs from his early period, nothing he did is what I would call rock. There's nothing wrong with not caring much for rock, but don't go around trying to fool people. The man never wrote any of his own songs, and at best was only an average guitar player, and he didn't even play much of the time. He allowed himself to be manipulated and used by others, participating in making some truly awful albums and movies that no self-respecting, true musician would ever do. I think the whole Elvis legacy is absolute horse manure. Those are my thoughts on the worlds most overrated performer.

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