Over 20 Dead...........WTF????

[speakerman39]

It seems that tornadoes are rapidly becoming more and more common not only here in West KY but practically all over the US. The news just mentioned a few minutes ago that there have been at least 21 killed due to tornado outbreaks in Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Arkansas. I have a good friend that lives in Florida and she said it has been really bad there too lately. Lots of severe storms and an over abundance of rain. I know here locally, we are already over almost 20" of rainfall than ever before in history here. Is this all due to "global warming" or what? It is actually cold here in the lower 50's. I have never ever seen it that chilly in the middle of MAY in all of my 40 years here. Care to share your thoughts?

 

[MUDSHARK]

I am very saddened by the recent deadly tornado outbreak. As far as Florida goes what part is getting rain. Here in East Central Florida it is dry as a bone with fires starting in both Cocoa and Palm Bay with many road closings and housing in danger. June is a long way off and we really need some rain. I was ashamed to complain with what you people in the mid west and plains are facing.

 

[speakerman39]

I am very saddened by the recent deadly tornado outbreak. As far as Florida goes what part is getting rain. Here in East Central Florida it is dry as a bone with fires starting in both Cocoa and Palm Bay with many road closings and housing in danger. June is a long way off and we really need some rain. I was ashamed to complain with what you people in the mid west and plains are facing.

Hi Mud and thanks for posting. Yes, it is a very sad time due to all the killer tornadoes. As far as Florida goes, I meant that so far this year my friend says there has been a lot more severe weather there. She is from the Sommerfield area. It is close to Bellvue and Ocala. To be honest, it seems like it is all over the place. One storm after another and so on. My thoughts and my prayers go out to all of the victims and their families. May they rest in peace.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

The Earth's weather is a very finely-tuned system. Call it global warming or something else, but it has unquestionably been knocked off balance. It will likely settle into a new stable state eventually, but it may get quite significantly worse before doing so.

 

[Halon451]

It seems that tornadoes are rapidly becoming more and more common not only here in West KY but practically all over the US. The news just mentioned a few minutes ago that there have been at least 21 killed due to tornado outbreaks in Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Arkansas. I have a good friend that lives in Florida and she said it has been really bad there too lately. Lots of severe storms and an over abundance of rain. I know here locally, we are already over almost 20" of rainfall than ever before in history here. Is this all due to "global warming" or what? It is actually cold here in the lower 50's. I have never ever seen it that chilly in the middle of MAY in all of my 40 years here. Care to share your thoughts?

Northern Florida (Jacksonville and points inland to an extent) I believe got a good dousing, but here in Central Florida and everwhere south of here, nada, zip, zilch, even though most of the day yesterday the sky was practically promising rain, and none came. My yard is turning into a tinderbox, despite regular watering.

Yes, the news of those who have fallen victim to the outbreak of storms further north and throughout the midwest is tragic indeed, but I frown at the thought of any of it being caused by "Global Warming". Not to turn this into a heated debate over GW, but global average temperature right now is actually a degree or two cooler than what it was at the beginning of the decade.

Weather is a fickle thing, and at very best we are only capable of "predicting" meteorlogical events within a set margin, not anywhere near 100% accurate. Things happen, and unfortunately weather on the scale that we are seeing in the midwest is a culmination of otherwise normal events by themselves, combined to create atmospheric turmoil. They don't call it tornado alley for nothing ya know.

No matter where anyone stands on the GW issue, the fact of the matter is that severe weather is going to happen, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. These days however, b/c GW has reached such a crescendo in the media, anytime a lightning bolt hits the ground somewhere, people are screaming it's because of Global Warming, which is ridiculous if you actually step back and think about it, logically.

Just my 1/50th of a dollar.

 

[rnatalli]

The Earth's weather is a very finely-tuned system. Call it global warming or something else, but it has unquestionably been knocked off balance. It will likely settle into a new stable state eventually, but it may get quite significantly worse before doing so.

That's basically it and we're to blame. If we keep it up, it'll only get worst. Although oil and other natural resources may run out soon enough.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

No matter where anyone stands on the GW issue, the fact of the matter is that severe weather is going to happen, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. These days however, b/c GW has reached such a crescendo in the media, anytime a lightning bolt hits the ground somewhere, people are screaming it's because of Global Warming, which is ridiculous if you actually step back and think about it, logically.

Global warming is not something that one can have a "stand" on (any more than, for example, gravity.) It is neither political nor a matter of belief, but simply a fact. The cause of it can be debated, but the fact itself cannot.

 

[Halon451]

That's basically it and we're to blame.

Are you still driving a car these days? Using electricity in the house there?

 

[rnatalli]

Are you still driving a car these days? Using electricity in the house there?

Of course, but my next car will be a hybrid and may not need one at all if I start working on the Harvard campus again. They're implementing a program up this way where you can pay a few bucks more (literally like $6/month) to receive wind power instead of the usual power. For $6/month, it's worth switching to help be green

 

[Halon451]

Global warming is not something that one can have a "stand" on (any more than, for example, gravity.) It is neither political nor a matter of belief, but simply a fact. The cause of it can be debated, but the fact itself cannot.

I agree, but there's no need to dissect my statement to get the meaning behind it, which I presumed was clear enough. Global warming/cooling indeed is a fact, as science has proven that the earth has gone through many periods of heating and cooling, and in my opinion the cause of it is hardly even worth debating, when you look at the hard data, and set aside the soapbox presentations.

I am all for a better way to produce electricity, improve our efficiencies and minimize the impact on our environment, but I'm not easily led to jumping on the latest bandwagon of anything with such strong political motives as GW when the actual science speaks for itself. Politics should never have gotten involved in this issue, and it should have been left to the hands of competent climatologists and scientists who have spent their lives devoted to the understanding of humankind's impact on nature - many of whom, who aren't in someone's back pocket, are now outspoken on the issue of GW and it's resident cause, which they claim is not us.

Time and time again, Nature has proven to be the much stronger of the two, and this will always be the case. When it has been proven beyond any doubt that a single volcanic eruption releases more CO2 than all of mankind's contributions put together, where is the basis for argument here?

CO2, incidentally - is not a pollutant. CO2 is as essential to life on earth as is the oxygen that we breathe. Without it, plant life would cease to exist, and without plant life, we cease to exist.

Sheesh... I said I didn't want to start a GW debate, it's just too easy to get drawn into. No flame wars guys, let's keep it civil if we can. Let's hear some good points if this is the way this thing is going to go.

 

[rnatalli]

CO2, incidentally - is not a pollutant. CO2 is as essential to life on earth as is the oxygen that we breathe. Without it, plant life would cease to exist, and without plant life, we cease to exist.

Although this is true, it's important to remember that there is such a thing as too much of something and also to remember there is less plant life to go around these days.

 

[Halon451]

The Earth's weather is a very finely-tuned system.

It's not actually - it's chaos. And by default, unpredictable and sometimes savage. A finely tuned system would be one that yields predictable results in a set pattern of events. And to reiterate my earlier point, bad things will happen with weather, based entirely on the randomness of these events that have nothing to do with anything other than their relation to one another at a given time. Chaos.

 

[Tomorrow]

Yeah, Speakerman, this winter we've had 3 storms here on the Oregon coast with hurricane force winds...topped by one at 145 mph...and 5 more storms with winds >50 mph. That's quite unusual. We've also had record (late) snowfall.

But I'll chime in with my condolences for the folks in the midwest. Weather takes care of the planet in mysterious ways, but one hates to see the large loss of life. How about Burma?! Yeow.

And no, there is no scientific consensus on GW. There is political posturing, but no adequate science. We still don't even have a model to explain the HUGE increase in global temperatures during the Cretaceous period...~90 million years ago, before humans were around to muck up the atmosphere. (The GW was MUCH worse during that event.)

 

[Joe Schmoe]

It's not actually - it's chaos. And by default, unpredictable and sometimes savage. A finely tuned system would be one that yields predictable results in a set pattern of events. And to reiterate my earlier point, bad things will happen with weather, based entirely on the randomness of these events that have nothing to do with anything other than their relation to one another at a given time. Chaos.

A chaotic system is very finely tuned (we mathematicians refer to it as "sensitive dependence on initial conditions", which has become more popularly known as "the butterfly effect".) This is why a very small change (perhaps one degree in average temperature) can have such huge, widespread effects.

 

[Halon451]

A chaotic system is very finely tuned (we mathematicians refer to it as "sensitive dependence on initial conditions", which has become more popularly known as "the butterfly effect".) This is why a very small change (perhaps one degree in average temperature) can have such huge, widespread effects.

Well, I'm no mathmetician, so I'll defer to your expertise on that one, but I have heard the butterfly effect. I've never disagreed with the impact of average global temperature on weather patterns, this much is duly proven by science. Butterfly effect? Eh, again, not a mathemetician, but I'd have to say it doesn't look like it's the right shoe. A one degree change in global average temperature is an enormous event, not merely a butterfly flapping it's wings halfway around the world (from whence the concept got its name), therefore it's impact is felt instantaneoulsy on a global scale, big or small. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[trnqk7]

Also, to those paying a slightly higher charge on your electric rate for "green" power...there's not a magical switch somewhere to direct that wind power to your home. You are still using the same power as everyone else. You are only helping to fund the windfarm, not necessarily using it's output. This is some that we at the power company will tell you if you ask...but it's not made very clear sometimes. Ruins the whole image of it if people don't think they are getting "green" power that they paid for but only subsidizing the costs. Just a heads up for everyone b/c it was mentioned by rnatalli earlier in the thread.

 

[Halon451]

Also, to those paying a slightly higher charge on your electric rate for "green" power...there's not a magical switch somewhere to direct that wind power to your home. You are still using the same power as everyone else. You are only helping to fund the windfarm, not necessarily using it's output. This is some that we at the power company will tell you if you ask...but it's not made very clear sometimes. Ruins the whole image of it if people don't think they are getting "green" power that they paid for but only subsidizing the costs. Just a heads up for everyone b/c it was mentioned by rnatalli earlier in the thread.

Absolutely correct. The coal-fired plants are not reducing their outputs just because a windfarm or solar array adds a few measly megawatts to the grid, and once the generators are synchronized to the grid (no matter from where), it's like adding your own brand of water to a running river while someone downstream is scooping it into a bucket, thinking they are getting only the stuff you delivered.

 

[speakerman39]

Northern Florida (Jacksonville and points inland to an extent) I believe got a good dousing, but here in Central Florida and everwhere south of here, nada, zip, zilch, even though most of the day yesterday the sky was practically promising rain, and none came. My yard is turning into a tinderbox, despite regular watering.

Yes, the news of those who have fallen victim to the outbreak of storms further north and throughout the midwest is tragic indeed, but I frown at the thought of any of it being caused by "Global Warming". Not to turn this into a heated debate over GW, but global average temperature right now is actually a degree or two cooler than what it was at the beginning of the decade.

Weather is a fickle thing, and at very best we are only capable of "predicting" meteorlogical events within a set margin, not anywhere near 100% accurate. Things happen, and unfortunately weather on the scale that we are seeing in the midwest is a culmination of otherwise normal events by themselves, combined to create atmospheric turmoil. They don't call it tornado alley for nothing ya know.

No matter where anyone stands on the GW issue, the fact of the matter is that severe weather is going to happen, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. These days however, b/c GW has reached such a crescendo in the media, anytime a lightning bolt hits the ground somewhere, people are screaming it's because of Global Warming, which is ridiculous if you actually step back and think about it, logically.

Just my 1/50th of a dollar.

Very well spoken halon. Kinda goes with the old saying "sh*t happens". The weather is going to do what it wants so we have no choice but to take it and move on. However, there is no doubt the climate is shifting on a global scale. Nice set-up btw. How do the SVS speakers sound?? They sure look very well made.

 

[speakerman39]

A chaotic system is very finely tuned (we mathematicians refer to it as "sensitive dependence on initial conditions", which has become more popularly known as "the butterfly effect".) This is why a very small change (perhaps one degree in average temperature) can have such huge, widespread effects.

And to think I got an A in Calculus I. but prayed to God himself for a "WITHDRAWAL PASS" in Calculus II. This is why I have a degree in Sociology/Criminal Justice and NOT mathematics......LOL!!!!!

 

[speakerman39]

Although this is true, it's important to remember that there is such a thing as too much of something and also to remember there is less plant life to go around these days.

But, what about all of the POT plants out there.....??????? Just kidding. Good point regarding the shrinking of the rain-forests world wide.