Over 20 Dead...........WTF????

[speakerman39]

Yeah, Speakerman, this winter we've had 3 storms here on the Oregon coast with hurricane force winds...topped by one at 145 mph...and 5 more storms with winds >50 mph. That's quite unusual. We've also had record (late) snowfall.

But I'll chime in with my condolences for the folks in the midwest. Weather takes care of the planet in mysterious ways, but one hates to see the large loss of life. How about Burma?! Yeow.

And no, there is no scientific consensus on GW. There is political posturing, but no adequate science. We still don't even have a model to explain the HUGE increase in global temperatures during the Cretaceous period...~90 million years ago, before humans were around to muck up the atmosphere. (The GW was MUCH worse during that event.)

Sounds like you have had some serious weather up your way to deal with. Either way, something is fueling this change. Perhaps, it is a culmination of the "many" things that are creating BIG changes to mother Earth. Only time and emperical research will tell.

 

[Halon451]

Very well spoken halon. Kinda goes with the old saying "sh*t happens". The weather is going to do what it wants so we have no choice but to take it and move on. However, there is no doubt the climate is shifting on a global scale. Nice set-up btw. How do the SVS speakers sound?? They sure look very well made.

The climate on Mars is shifting on a global scale too, but somehow that point fails to make headlines in most discussions on global warming.

I love those little SVS speakers. They present themselves as a larger entity than what their box dimensions measure and they're built like small tanks. A good knuckle rap test on the side confirms this. Very well designed and braced, and they sound remarkable for the price.

 

[speakerman39]

The climate on Mars is shifting on a global scale too, but somehow that point fails to make headlines in most discussions on global warming.

I love those little SVS speakers. They present themselves as a larger entity than what their box dimensions measure and they're built like small tanks. A good knuckle rap test on the side confirms this. Very well designed and braced, and they sound remarkable for the price.

Thanks Halon for the info. Good point about Mars too. Hope you get some rain soon. It is supposed to rain here yet again from Wednesday all the way through the weekend. Never seems to change. A couple of sunny days, then a week of cold, gloomy rain often with severe weather. The same pattern over and over again.

 

[Halon451]

Thanks Halon for the info. Good point about Mars too. Hope you get some rain soon. It is supposed to rain here yet again from Wednesday all the way through the weekend. Never seems to change. A couple of sunny days, then a week of cold, gloomy rain often with severe weather. The same pattern over and over again.

Feel free to shove some of that rain down our way, if you like!

Here's an interesting read, this is one of the graphs from the page, which incidentally is obtained directly from NOAA data, concerning tornado outbreaks, frequency and severity:

This graph clearly depicts a lessening trend since the 1950's (okay for you mathmeticians out there, calculate the definite integral represented between 1950 and present). At my glance it looks like we're not exactly headed for any kind of catastrophic disaster involving tornadoes, just the peaks and dips over several years as to be expected:



Furthermore, here is the link to the NOAA web page:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/severeweather/tornadoes.html

 

[speakerman39]

Feel free to shove some of that rain down our way, if you like!

Here's an interesting read, this is one of the graphs from the page, which incidentally is obtained directly from NOAA data, concerning tornado outbreaks, frequency and severity:

This graph clearly depicts a lessening trend since the 1950's (okay for you mathmeticians out there, calculate the definite integral represented between 1950 and present). At my glance it looks like we're not exactly headed for any kind of catastrophic disaster involving tornadoes, just the peaks and dips over several years as to be expected:



Furthermore, here is the link to the NOAA web page:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/severeweather/tornadoes.html

Looks like 1973 was a rough one. Heck, I was only 6 yrs. old and in the first grade. The weather was the last thing I was worried about. Thanks for the info Halon. BTW, would love to send some of our rain your way. If only I could do a rain dance...........now that would be UGLY!!!!!

 

[Halon451]

Looks like 1973 was a rough one. Heck, I was only 6 yrs. old and in the first grade. The weather was the last thing I was worried about. Thanks for the info Halon. BTW, would love to send some of our rain your way. If only I could do a rain dance...........now that would be UGLY!!!!!

I think the big spike on the graph indicates 1974 actually. My dad who was a cop at the time remembers it better than I do, he was very busy that evening. We were living in northern Alabama then (we moved to Florida when I was still quite young), and the old man still shudders when he remembers that outbreak, which is regarded as the worst in US history, and plainly evident by the graph.

Check this link out for the info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Outbreak

EDIT: I think, in response to your original post, a lot of people are easily persuaded to believe that these current events is indicative of a greater global climate shift taking place, but the reality of it is that it is a relative perception - when in earlier days, and especially in more rural areas, things like this often went unreported outside of their local regions - with today's close-knit telecommunications technology, word can spread instantly through a hundred different resources; and the media hype only fuels speculation as to the cause - to the average observer it may appear that s**t has lately hit the proverbial fan, when in actuality it's just the same old weather patterns we've always seen, we're just being made more aware of it these days.

 

[speakerman39]

I think the big spike on the graph indicates 1974 actually. My dad who was a cop at the time remembers it better than I do, he was very busy that evening. We were living in northern Alabama then (we moved to Florida when I was still quite young), and the old man still shudders when he remembers that outbreak, which is regarded as the worst in US history, and plainly evident by the graph.

Check this link out for the info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Outbreak

EDIT: I think, in response to your original post, a lot of people are easily persuaded to believe that these current events is indicative of a greater global climate shift taking place, but the reality of it is that it is a relative perception - when in earlier days, and especially in more rural areas, things like this often went unreported outside of their local regions - with today's close-knit telecommunications technology, word can spread instantly through a hundred different resources; and the media hype only fuels speculation as to the cause - to the average observer it may appear that s**t has lately hit the proverbial fan, when in actuality it's just the same old weather patterns we've always seen, we're just being made more aware of it these days.

Very interesting. I don't remember that day but an F-5 touched down not too far from where I live. Thanks for the link.

 

[MUDSHARK]

North America has the vast majority of the world's tornadoes due to the lack of an East/West mountain range (Alps, Himalayas, for instance) to block the warm moist tropical moisture of the gulf from the cold polar fronts moving southward. The warm moist air makes the fronts unstable thereby kicking off squall lines in advance of the frontal boundary. Hence, the tornado outbreaks move northward as the spring advances into summer. Unless global warming affected only the lower latitudes it should not increase or decrease the effect of the colliding air masses of different temperature and hence pressure. The smaller tornadoes spawned by tropical systems such as hurricanes are a totally different weather event not related to the squall line generated fearsome tornadoes of the mainland U.S.

 

[speakerman39]

North America has the vast majority of the world's tornadoes due to the lack of an East/West mountain range (Alps, Himalayas, for instance) to block the warm moist tropical moisture of the gulf from the cold polar fronts moving southward. The warm moist air makes the fronts unstable thereby kicking off squall lines in advance of the frontal boundary. Hence, the tornado outbreaks move northward as the spring advances into summer. Unless global warming affected only the lower latitudes it should not increase or decrease the effect of the colliding air masses of different temperature and hence pressure. The smaller tornadoes spawned by tropical systems such as hurricanes are a totally different weather event not related to the squall line generated fearsome tornadoes of the mainland U.S.

Interesting stuff. Never knew this but it does make sense. Thanks for the info.

 

[Audioholics]

Looks like 1973 was a rough one.

I was born that year. Explains everything... lol

 

[mike c]

i can't imagine living somewhere where the weather can take your life ...

 

[rnatalli]

I certainly don't put much stock into what the media and politicians say, but when well-established scientists speak up, I give them my ear.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

i can't imagine living somewhere where the weather can take your life ...

These days, that is getting to be more and more places. Besides, if it isn't the weather, it might be an earthquake, volcano, or tsunami.

 

[Halon451]

These days, that is getting to be more and more places. Besides, if it isn't the weather, it might be an earthquake, volcano, or tsunami.

It's not Joe, it's just increased media attention. These things have been going on for millions of years and in varying cycles of intensities. The earth is only a relatively stable place - between plate tectonics, volcanic activity, ocean currents, and a host of other meteorlogical phenomenon, every place in the world is guaranteed a date with natural disaster at some point.

Anyone can look at the scientific hard data - it's there for anyone to grab as long as they're minds are open enough to accept it.

 

[rnatalli]

Also, to those paying a slightly higher charge on your electric rate for "green" power...there's not a magical switch somewhere to direct that wind power to your home. You are still using the same power as everyone else. You are only helping to fund the windfarm, not necessarily using it's output. This is some that we at the power company will tell you if you ask...but it's not made very clear sometimes. Ruins the whole image of it if people don't think they are getting "green" power that they paid for but only subsidizing the costs. Just a heads up for everyone b/c it was mentioned by rnatalli earlier in the thread.

I understand that is the case, but there's a larger picture. Several reports indicate that 20% of US power needs will be wind powered by 2030. That's the same percentage of nuclear power in the US today. So yes it's all tied into the same grid, but more wind power means less coal burning. I think the calculation in the government report made it equivalent to taking something like 100 million cars off the road. 20% is pretty significant.

 

[rnatalli]

It's not Joe, it's just increased media attention. These things have been going on for millions of years and in varying cycles of intensities. The earth is only a relatively stable place - between plate tectonics, volcanic activity, ocean currents, and a host of other meteorlogical phenomenon, every place in the world is guaranteed a date with natural disaster at some point.

Anyone can look at the scientific hard data - it's there for anyone to grab as long as they're minds are open enough to accept it.

Although this is to an extent true, there's no arguing humans have played a role. Scientists are better at interpreting hard data than I so I defer to their judgment and it seems the majority agree humans have had a significant impact.

 

[trnqk7]

I haven't seen that report-what I do know is that wind power is "nice" but unreliable in most areas of the country. Wind farms are unpredictable as to when you actually have the needed wind to power the turbine for generation-so it does nothing to help cover excess demand during peak usage. The "dirtiest" power plants only come online during peak operating times. Also, wind farms take up a huge amount of space, especially here in Missouri...thousands of acres, all for a few megawatts (which is nothing really). The information I have seen points to many new nuclear plants being in the works for the near future and that wind power is mostly a marketing tool for us (I work for a power company-actually, a distribution cooperative) to have a good image.

I'm not saying wind power is bad-just that it is nowhere near the answer.

 

[rnatalli]

I haven't seen that report-what I do know is that wind power is "nice" but unreliable in most areas of the country. Wind farms are unpredictable as to when you actually have the needed wind to power the turbine for generation-so it does nothing to help cover excess demand during peak usage. The "dirtiest" power plants only come online during peak operating times. Also, wind farms take up a huge amount of space, especially here in Missouri...thousands of acres, all for a few megawatts (which is nothing really). The information I have seen points to many new nuclear plants being in the works for the near future and that wind power is mostly a marketing tool for us (I work for a power company-actually, a distribution cooperative) to have a good image.

I'm not saying wind power is bad-just that it is nowhere near the answer.

Some Googling will cough up the reports as they aren't new. I was reading something this morning about it. To make 20% of the power needed, I think the number came something like 75k windmills. No small challenge. And I agree with you that it is in no way going to be enough. However, combined with solar, hydro, and nuclear, things can get clean fast. I'm not a huge fan of wind as it's a lot of hardware with moving parts.

 

[trnqk7]

You hit the nail on the head with nuclear. It is the cleanest mass energy source that we know of and can be harnessed by us right now.

 

[speakerman39]

I was born that year. Explains everything... lol

LOL........could be true Clint.