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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
It never make sense to me that separate prepros are meaningfully more reliable than AVRs. With comparable features, both are jam-packed and most if not all of the time it is the prepro section that would fail. To minimize the pain due to any sort of failures, I probably will not go the prepro route again and will stick with one year outdated avrs.

By the way, I have only dealt with Outlaw once and so far I am still a happy customer, lucky perhaps.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Over the last week we have noted the multiple assertions about Outlaw Audio not supporting their customers...
To me this is totally opposite of the typical reaction and reputation I have seen over the years from Outlaw Audio. Outlaw Audio is not 1 of the major mass-distributed audio brands but they do care about their customers making sure their products function as originally designed. However in today's AV market with fewer and fewer local audio specialists or available technical support, when a problem does arise it can be more difficult to achieve a prompt response and/or timely fix. Todays AV components typically have few hardware issues but instead the majority are software related. This is compounded by advancing technologies that may not be fully stable and mature.
I am not aware of the specific problem with the Outlaw processor, but for sure the brand will not extend it best support/cooperation to resolve the issue if a heated debate is had. Outlaw audio does have technical support located in the US, and which now is becoming a scarce function with the other audio brands as they outsource it from the Philippines or India. Continuing the debate will only lower the matter to even lower levels.....
My recommendation would be for the user to step back and rethink his approach. Instead of ratcheting up the rhetoric, as we already have enough of this coming out of Washington DC... :) Since the address of Outlaw Audio is known as well as the name of the target executive, why not a draft letter and send by registered mail outlining the problem requesting support while pulling back the emotions...

Thanks for listening...

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
J

JackHart2019

Audioholic Intern
Over the last week we have noted the multiple assertions about Outlaw Audio not supporting their customers...
To me this is totally opposite of the typical reaction and reputation I have seen over the years from Outlaw Audio. Outlaw Audio is not 1 of the major mass-distributed audio brands but they do care about their customers making sure their products function as originally designed. However in today's AV market with fewer and fewer local audio specialists or available technical support, when a problem does arise it can be more difficult to achieve a prompt response and/or timely fix. Todays AV components typically have few hardware issues but instead the majority are software related. This is compounded by advancing technologies that may not be fully stable and mature.
I am not aware of the specific problem with the Outlaw processor, but for sure the brand will not extend it best support/cooperation to resolve the issue if a heated debate is had. Outlaw audio does have technical support located in the US, and which now is becoming a scarce function with the other audio brands as they outsource it from the Philippines or India. Continuing the debate will only lower the matter to even lower levels.....
My recommendation would be for the user to step back and rethink his approach. Instead of ratcheting up the rhetoric, as we already have enough of this coming out of Washington DC... :) Since the address of Outlaw Audio is known as well as the name of the target executive, why not a draft letter and send by registered mail outlining the problem requesting support while pulling back the emotions...

Thanks for listening...

Just my $0.02... ;)
It is true, I do know the names of the four people the internet lists as employees of Outlaw Audio. Thanks to the internet I also have the company's address, just as you suggest. So why have I decided to air some details of this situation in public forums on the internet? I'll be blunt. Because I know how Outlaw responded to all of my previous communications with them. As do they. The rest of you fine folks do not.

So far I've not posted any of that material online, but I have copies of it all, and if I were to characterize the responses Outlaw as directed at me (as opposed to the past week of total avoidance and silence), I'd be putting it mildly if I were to tell you that they have been dismissive, hostile, and insulting; not once, not twice, but repeatedly.

There is no justification for Outlaw's behavior in this matter. Even their posted statement from earlier today is what political people call "a classic non-denial denial." In my opinion no one at Outlaw has any interest in resolving this to my satisfaction. Rather, they seek to insinuate that I am somehow to blame for their crappy service and attitude. They've done so in emails to me, and I imagine they are preparing to do something similar on this forum.

I appreciate your two cents, but I've been upfront and crystal clear as to why I posted my initial questions. I never expected it to produce a thread of this length and I never intended to begin a discussion on this forum that would cause Outlaw Audio to issue a statement. That said, I find it curious that are willing to (anonymously) respond to this thread, but continue to absolutely refuse to respond to me directly.

It's just my opinion but it smacks of cowardliness.
 
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B

BriReeves629

Audioholic
There is no justification for Outlaw's behavior in this matter. Even their posted statement from earlier today is what political people call "a classic non-denial denial." In my opinion no one at Outlaw has any interest in resolving this to my satisfaction. Rather, they seek to insinuate that I am somehow to blame for their crappy service and attitude. They've done so in emails to me, and I imagine they are preparing to do something similar on this forum.
I would have to agree with this statement. I also felt that Outlaw’s post was insinuating that the customer was somehow out of line and that they planned to prove that in a future post. Having been a victim of bad service a time or two, it is somewhat of a sore spot for me as well. I realize that you can’t please everyone, a good company will still attempt to do so. Especially in the public eye. I didn’t get that from Outlaw Audio’s response earlier today. Just an observation...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'd be embarassed if I were Outlaw and they couldn't post a cohesive response at this point based on their earlier post....perhaps they have found some internal issue?
 
O

Outlaw_Audio

Audiophyte
We know that those reading this thread have been asking for us to respond, and with apologies for the delay, it follows below. The depth of this conversation requires a somewhat lengthy answer, so our apologies for that, as well.

Great sounding products at affordable prices, along with Customer Service that meets the highest standards, have been core values at Outlaw Audio since our inception over 20 years ago. Indeed, our staying power to thrive in a highly competitive market where others have failed, along with tens of thousands of satisfied customers, and dozens of awards and reviews, is further testament to the quality of our products and service. Both our products and after sales service have been acclaimed by reviewers and customers alike.

However, as the old saying goes, “you can’t please everyone.” It seems that what is being discussed in this thread is one of those situations.

Let’s set the record straight: We have tried to solve this customer’s problem on a number of levels, but unfortunately, he seems unwilling to work with us to solve the problem. The use of an online ticket system has helped our customers contact us regardless of time of day. More importantly, it gives us the details needed so that when we speak to a customer by phone, we already have the information to address the problem and solve it. On numerous occasions we have asked this customer to describe his system settings so that we may suggest something that could solve the issue.

It is worth noting that, as the OP mentioned himself, this is also one of those situations where a “ticket system” provides a written record so that everyone is on the same page. In 99% of our transactions, it is simply an easier way to communicate without the chance of confusion, particularly for those who may not be able to have long phone conversations while at work.

Let’s clear the air by showing the questions we asked. We suspect that many here are long-time home theater enthusiasts, so they will readily understand the reasons we need this information to effectively address any problems. Depending on the answers, the issue might be cured with a simple change in settings or connections. If not, a return may be needed. If the latter is the case we stand by our three-year warranty and will do whatever is needed to repair or replace a unit even when it is towards the end of the warranty period. Since this issue was reported to us prior to the end of the three years, we would, of course, happily honor the warranty. We strongly support our customers and have all the parts needed for any repair, even when something pops up long after the end of the warranty.

Unfortunately, the OP has not to date given us any of the answers to the questions we need to address his concerns.

Here is the text of the ticket in question:
=============================================================================
posted 3/25/19, 1:53 PM

We are still waiting for these questions to be answered.
  • Please confirm changing the volume on the Model 975 currently causes the display to show UNLOCK, and you to lose all signal.
  • Does changing the volume on the Model 975 cause the FM tuner to lose signal as well?
  • List your source devices (Oppo, Cable Box, etc.), and exactly how they are connected to your system. If they are connected to multiple pieces of equipment, or are connected in multiple ways please list them and how they are connected.
  • Please confirm dropping signal for extended periods of time occurs with all source devices.
  • How is your TV connected to the Model 975?
  • You have 5 mappable inputs on the Model 975: TV, DISC, GAME, VIDEO, and AUX. Which are you using and for which respective source device? You mention you've configured the inputs and everything was working. Please let us know how the inputs are currently configured.
  • Is there a reason ARC was used originally to send audio to the Model 975? If so, we need to know why so that we can take this into consideration.
  • Once setting the video, for the input used for ARC, to "----", what were your results?
  • What were your results with analog connections for audio? Did you configure one of the mappable inputs for analog for audio?
Once we know more about your situation, and what you are trying to achieve, we can proceed with any further questions.

posted 3/26/19, 9:27 AM

Mr. <REDACTED FOR PRIVACY>, your account is not locked. Please respond with answers to the aforementioned questions.

=============================================================================

Those who are familiar with processors or AVRs will see that some potential issues might be resolved on the spot by simply addressing the questions listed above. Unfortunately, the response from the customer was that he did not even want to take it out of the box and see what the issue is. We can’t solve a problem unless we know what may be causing it, or what can be eliminated as a potential cause.

For those not familiar with Outlaw Audio, we offer a 30-day return policy, no questions asked, from date of delivery. We were one of, if not the first, online home theater companies to do this. However, if this is simply an issue of someone finding out that they no longer want or need something they bought THREE YEARS ago, as the customer told us over the phone, the easiest thing for him to do would simply be to sell it. A mark of the quality of Outlaw products is the high value they return in the resale market.

The bottom line here is quite different that what it appears to be. We’ll do whatever is needed to help a customer with a claimed defective unit. All we ask for is some information from their side so that we can solve the problem. In this case we can’t fix the problem because the customer refuses to help us dial in on what is happening. It’s as simple as that: help us fix things and we’ll do just that.

One more side note is in order. Respect for customers is something demanded of all Outlaw employees. Anything to the contrary is just not true. On the other side of the fence, the OP here has taken to numerous forums using multiple names and accounts, presumably to whip up attention. We wish that he would put that effort into responding to our requests rather than spend time in the forums. If he did that, the problem would have been solved a long time ago.
 
J

JackHart2019

Audioholic Intern
The bottom line here is quite different that what it appears to be. We’ll do whatever is needed to help a customer with a claimed defective unit. All we ask for is some information from their side so that we can solve the problem. In this case we can’t fix the problem because the customer refuses to help us dial in on what is happening. It’s as simple as that: help us fix things and we’ll do just that.
What a joke.

As I've posted before, I've had to resort to posting reviews and condemnations of Outlaw Audio online because NO ONE at Outlaw Audio will respond to me or my partner. They will not return my calls. They will not return my emails, they will not respond on Facebook or Twitter, AND most importantly they have denied me access to the ticketing system where they originally posted this laundry list of questions that I supposedly haven't answered half a dozen times.

It's bad enough that the ownership and management at Outlaw Audio allow and seem to encourage their own employees to arrogantly dismiss legitimate customer complaints.

The fact that they would publicly display that identical dismissive arrogance here is simply shocking.

Outlaw must think we're all really stupid.

Below is a copy of Outlaw's actual response to me on their technical support ticketing system.


"Jim Gordon posted 3/21/19, 8:46 AM

Ok. We're done.
No one here will respond to any further correspondence from you.
Good day."


& my account at Outlaw Audio is STILL denying me access. They unlocked it for a few hours the day they tried to get us to take our negative review down. As soon as I told them I would not tell my partner to delete it, they locked me out again.

This level of dishonesty is just remarkable.
 
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Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
So, Shaun, let's sum this up. Your 975 is not under warranty any longer. You posted a negative review somewhere, which really annoyed Outlaw's management, and you refused to delete it. Most companies interpret that as an act of bad faith. Then you started this thread on a site known to be friendly with Outlaw, using an alias that looks like a real name, not some obviously made-up avatar thing, and you've led this thread in a circuitous path that's sometimes a bit difficult to follow. You've admitted that your attitude towards Outlaw personnel has not always been friendly and accommodating. Outlaw personnel probably did give you some attitude. The bottom line is that you and Outlaw are pissed off at each other.

My advice to you is just walk away. I think it's unlikely that you're going to get a positive outcome from this situation. And this thread has turned into a circus, you've even lost my interest, and I'm a 975 owner.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Threads like these can serve as a "Mediator". We've seen it before. Let both sides present their stories. Hopefully we can come to some kind of resolution.

If Outlaw asked me those questions, I would have done my part and just answered those questions. So I don't understand why those questions were not answered.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
The questions seem like a check off list troubleshooting that's found in the back of any manual with gear. To be used before sending or calling into for repair that's standard practice with all audio video gear.
 
B

BriReeves629

Audioholic
Here is the text of the ticket in question:
=============================================================================
posted 3/25/19, 1:53 PM

We are still waiting for these questions to be answered.
  • Please confirm changing the volume on the Model 975 currently causes the display to show UNLOCK, and you to lose all signal.
  • Does changing the volume on the Model 975 cause the FM tuner to lose signal as well?
  • List your source devices (Oppo, Cable Box, etc.), and exactly how they are connected to your system. If they are connected to multiple pieces of equipment, or are connected in multiple ways please list them and how they are connected.
  • Please confirm dropping signal for extended periods of time occurs with all source devices.
  • How is your TV connected to the Model 975?
  • You have 5 mappable inputs on the Model 975: TV, DISC, GAME, VIDEO, and AUX. Which are you using and for which respective source device? You mention you've configured the inputs and everything was working. Please let us know how the inputs are currently configured.
  • Is there a reason ARC was used originally to send audio to the Model 975? If so, we need to know why so that we can take this into consideration.
  • Once setting the video, for the input used for ARC, to "----", what were your results?
  • What were your results with analog connections for audio? Did you configure one of the mappable inputs for analog for audio?
Once we know more about your situation, and what you are trying to achieve, we can proceed with any further questions.
Technology is a wonderful thing and can be a great tool, but sometimes if left to its own device, the written word can be misinterpreted to some. May I ask why this customer was not called at some point? Some times picking up the phone can be the best course of action.

To the OP: It seems that you had packaged the unit up and didn’t give Outlaw the opportunity to first try to troubleshoot the issue. If this is true, I don’t blame Outlaw for this. Any company would ask the same and if you really wanted to keep the component, wouldn’t that be the best outcome? I’ve been on the phone many times with tech support and I ended up realizing that I had done something wrong. I also learned a lot about the device as well. Win-Win!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
J

JackHart2019

Audioholic Intern
So, Shaun, let's sum this up. Your 975 is not under warranty any longer.
My 975 is STILL under warranty. I purchased it 3 years ago, it has a 5 year warranty.

& thank you for your advice, but obviously, your not following along as closely as I've been.
 
J

JackHart2019

Audioholic Intern
Threads like these can serve as a "Mediator". We've seen it before. Let both sides present their stories. Hopefully we can come to some kind of resolution.

If Outlaw asked me those questions, I would have done my part and just answered those questions. So I don't understand why those questions were not answered.
As I have stated repeatedly the only way to respond to this laundry list Outlaw is using to suggest that I am some how not cooperating is by responding on their TICKETING SYSTEM. Which Outlaw Audio has locked me out of.

I don't mind folks siding with Outlaw, but the least folks could do if they want to weigh in, is actually read my posts, not just theirs.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
My 975 is STILL under warranty. I purchased it 3 years ago, it has a 5 year warranty.

& thank you for your advice, but obviously, your not following along as closely as I've been.
From the 975 owner's manual:

This warranty protects the owner of the Outlaw Model 975 Preamp/Processor (the PRODUCT) for three (3) years from the date of purchase.
 
J

JackHart2019

Audioholic Intern
No wonder companies like Outlaw Audio get away with this kind of s h i t.
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
I've known the owners of Outlaw Audio for many, many years and one in particular for over 30 years. I can tell you that these people are intensely dedicated to customer service and would never act in any manner that would alienate a customer. The company's exemplary customer service record should speak for itself.

I spoke with one of the Outlaw owners a little while ago and the story told by Mr. "Hart" is not an accurate one.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
No wonder companies like Outlaw Audio get away with this kind of s h i t.
Not at all. I wasn't entirely thrilled with Outlaw myself, once I figured out the 975 had an output voltage weakness. And Outlaw's posts have had little more clarity than yours, but my advice still stands. This isn't like you're arguing with Samsung or even Yamaha who might just suck it up to please an unhappy customer, Outlaw is a niche company by comparison. And now you've set up a situation where one of you has to fold for the other to win. I doubt it will be Outlaw at this point.
 
J

JackHart2019

Audioholic Intern
Any other posts you can share?
Yes, here's the email I received from Outlaw Audio's managing partner after "Jim Gordon" locked me out of their "support system."

Jon H posted 3/22/19, 1:01 PM

Dear Mr. Conrad,

I have been monitoring your case, and we never like when an interaction is a negative one. I should start by saying, as one of the founders of Outlaw Audio, that our long record of legendary service has been hard earned. And a large part of our excellent reputation in the industry has been because of employees like Ben and Jim, both of whom I have known and worked with daily since the first day they were hired. I’ve also had a chance to review your support ticket and talk with both Ben and Jim about your case. They brought me up to speed on your equipment list and what we think is your configuration. From what I can see in the back and forth of your support ticket, you seem to be avoiding some of the specific questions that they have asked you. In my 20 years since co-founding the company, I can count on one hand the number of customers that could not be satisfied by our support representatives. In every case, the customers have been unwilling to follow a reasonable diagnostic procedure meant to, by process of elimination, identify problems caused by complex interdependent devices all connected through our processors. Neither Ben nor Jim work from a script. In fact both of them have been involved for many years in the development of many of our new products. You were lucky to be working with them as they are the most experienced members of our team.

It has been brought to my attention that you have created aliases on social media. These have been used to defame and libel Outlaw Audio around this support case. In addition, your partner is now posting defamatory and libelous content on at least one additional web site.

Our goal is to help our customers. Ultimately, we need your co-operation to do so. Refusing to answer our questions, and continually copying and pasting previous correspondence to two different Outlaw representatives does not help anyone. When asked to answer some simple setup questions, you ignored the question and cut and pasted previous replies. You mention not understanding one of the questions, which is not a problem if true, but not once did you convey this to Ben. It was not even conveyed until the 18th correspondence. To make things easier, Jim will compile the questions all together and respond to the thread. The thread will be unlocked, and any questions that are not understood need to be clearly responded to as such. Note that support tickets are locked when a situation requires that I intervene or review the situation.

At this point, we would like to deescalate the situation. Kindly answer the questions that were posed to you originally, remove the libelous content that you (and your partner) have posted on social media, and other sites, and work with us to solve your problem. If you are unwilling to do this, we will pursue a legal action against you and your partner for your libelous content that has been posed.


For those of you who are still following along you will notice that the point of this communication on Outlaw's part was to threaten me with legal action if I didn't some how make my partner take down her negative review.

Never, not once has Outlaw claimed that my 975 was not under warranty when I returned it for repairs over Christmas, or subsequently. Even here they insist that they will continue to service the unit if I'd take the negative review down.

My partner, against my advice, relented and took down her negative review. But Outlaw still refuses to speak to either of us or offer either of us an actual avenue for answering these "questions."

Oh, and by the way, I'd be happy to sell it to anyone on this thread who wants it - for cheap - but I'm not in the habit of selling things that DON'T WORK.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Well, Shaun, you have a lot of passion about this. I admit to being curious about what that "libelous content" was. Can you send it in a PM?
 
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