Outfitting a house with speakers in every room- any tips or advice?

[ListeningHard]

So, my brother is building a house and wants to put in-wall speakers all over the place, but he doesn't know anything about purchasing speakers. The guys who will be doing the electrical work and cutting the drywall have recommended this setup for him:

Speakercraft Aim7 $400 per pair - kitchen, master bedroom, office, garage, rear surround
Speakercraft Aim5 $300 per pair - laundry room and all bed rooms that are not one the zone system
Speakercraft OE6One $550 per pair - patio - weatherproof
Speakercraft in room 10" Subwoofer $600
Speakercraft Cinemastick soundbar speaker for front Channels $800

Total speaker cost: $5150.00 including surround sound speakers

He showed these recommendations to me and I thought that it would be prudent to ask some of you fine gentlemen and ladies for your thoughts on this brand (Speakercraft) and this setup.

This particular shopping list is a little out of his price range, so his plan B was going to ultimate electronics and picking up whatever they reccomend. I think that he can do better than that. Any thoughts?

What I am looking for is
1. Some reputable sites that with good reviews/information (I checked consumer reports and their section on speakers is pretty pathetic.)
2. Any tips from people who have attempted something like this in the past.
3. Specific Speaker recommendations for:

2.0 In wall speakers $200-350
2.0 In ceiling speakers $200-350
5.1 system under $1500
2.0 Weatherproof outside speakers $400-550

Thanks everyone for reading my post!

 

[fragzem]

If I were doing my whole house, I'd be looking to spend $10,000 or more.. I mean, I ain't gonna wanna be taking these things out, making a bigger hole for a replacement that may or may not fit.. blah blah

$5000 seems too cheap to me to do all those rooms... but maybe thats just me. There's guys on this forum whose 2 front speakers cost double that entire home setup. $5000 for allll those rooms sounds "too good to be true" to me. But like I said, maybe it's me!

What I would do in this circumstance? Get an amazing 5.1 or 7.1 setup for the living room - have the contractor run the speaker wire and cut the holes for the speakers in all the other rooms, cover those holes with some kinda grills/grates - and slowly as I have the money, start installing speakers in them.

Also, seems like you've forgotten the Dining Room? Where's the romance in a dining room without a little classical music piped in the background?

 

[digicidal]

Also, seems like you've forgotten the Dining Room? Where's the romance in a dining room without a little classical music piped in the background?

It's after you sweep all the crap off the table and throw her down... oh wait, what???

I've heard a mixed bag as far as the Speakercraft speakers are concerned, but they're definitely not the worst by any estimation. However, has he ever taken the time to actually listen to an all in-wall/in-ceiling setup? I've listened to several at friends and clients houses - several of them with homes costing millions (well before the collapse at least)... so I know they bought whatever the most expensive thing they could find was... and they still couldn't come close to a pair of decent $1000/pr standmounts and a good amp.

Not saying that they sounded like crap - many of their setups sounded quite amazing (especially compared to the bose in-ceilings you find in many restaurants and retail stores). However, I know at least two of them spent more than $5K just on amplification - which appears to be missing from that shopping list. If $5K is a little too pricey for him, then I would recommend rethinking the installs (although running the wires everywhere would be a great idea... just don't cut all the holes until the complete system is determined).

With tons of speakers everywhere - careful planning needs to be made in regards to impedence and placement... not just price of drivers. Has he given thought to where in those rooms he's actually going to be LISTENING to what's playing? Or is he looking for just a 'party house' vibe where as long as the song is identifiable - everything is OK?

If the latter is the case, he still needs to give careful consideration to how much he can spend on amplification, controls, and rack placement (and potentially cooling of said rack). In my admittedly limited experience with whole-house and pro-audio installs (bars, etc..) the speakers themselves are the CHEAPEST part of the equation.. not the most expensive.

 

[highfigh]

I agree that the SpeakerCraft aren't necessarily the best- have him listen to speakers- they make far more difference than amplifiers and the other electronics.

A few things that need to be known before making recommendations:

How long are the speaker runs? The amplifier should be located in a central part of the house because signal loss can be a problem on long runs.

How will the equipment be controlled from each location? I wouldn't recommend the AVAD amplifiers in the junction box- not great sounding and limiting as far as number of sources for each zone.

How loud will the music be playing? That determines the speakers and power/channel needed. Low sensitivity speakers and low power amplifiers will never provide the SPL, sound quality or durability/reliability desired.

If the TV will be in a larger room and realistic sound quality is wanted, a "sound stick" probably won't do the job well. Some of the newer in-wall speakers are less obvious than before and have a small edge that doesn't call attention to itself the way the 1" white border does. However, they can be more expensive. Will he want a subwoofer?

What are the room sizes? This is very important when selecting speakers.

"Define 5.1 system". Is this a receiver/dvd or BD player and any other equipment? A 5.1 receiver with Zone 2 output will never be able to drive a large number of speakers.

 

[AVRat]

The SCs are decent quality, especially since they're the granddad of in-structures. You could easily step the Aim7 Twos down to the 5 Ones w/o sacrificing much quality. An alternative to the 7s: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108ERS310/Infinity-ERS-310.html?tp=193&tab=features_and_specs
The areas designated for the 5s don't seem as critical so I'm sure something like these would suffice: http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-RC60i-Ceiling-Speakers/dp/B00005T3BD

For the Outdoors: http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-KHO-7-Outdoor-Loudspeaker-White/dp/B0011YR8UE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1295020765&sr=1-5

Does the 5.1 setup need to be in-wall/ceilings for the front three?

It would help to know the cubic volume of the room to properly size a better sub.

 

[Jim85IROC]

If it was me, now that we're in a wireless world, I'd forget about the in-walls, and put something separate in each room. With things like a Squeezebox or Sonos and some small shelf systems or even powered speakers, a "whole house" system seems so limiting and out dated.

For less money, something like a squeezebox in every room can give you the same music all over the house, or something different in every room, and in both cases, you have full control from whatever room you're in.

Speakers can be very small and virtually hidden from view (think a 2.1 system) so there's really very little use for inwalls or in-ceiling speakers and their associated drawbacks.

 

[digicidal]

I'm not saying this is the case with this particular person (OP's brother) but usually the people that want something like this are not actually all that interested in SQ at all - for the most part it's considered as much as part of a current "fully appointed home" as having a remote control (or touchscreens now) to manage your powered blinds, thermostat, fireplaces, waterfalls, sunroofs, pool lights, spa jets, and on....

I've yet to meet any real audiophiles that are willing to make the compromises involved in being restricted to in-wall/in-ceiling installs... unless you mean custom in-wall enclosures that house custom built driver-arrays specifically designed for dedicated theatre use. Or as a completely ancillary system for background music for parties.

 

[ListeningHard]

Responses to questions

Ok guys, I can't thank you enough for all of the feedback! These posts have really shaken my brother up and they are getting him to consider other options. He has been persuaded to focus on the 5.1, kitchen/dining room, and patio for now and will install/purchase the rest later when he has the money.

To answer a few of the questions posed:

His living room (where he wants to put in the 5.1) is 2187 cubic feet, but it is open in back with a kitchen/dining area behind it for a total of 5670 cubic feet.

He has multiple cat 5 or 6 wires as well as audio cords going to each room. (he also has redundancy in case of an issue later on)

He is planning on having the main floor and downstairs be on one zone (I think that is what it is called.) That includes the kitchen/dining room, entertainment room, living room (5.1), patio, laundry room. He wants them to be able to uses different sources. As for the upstairs there are control panels in each bedroom. I am not exactly sure on the details, but he has discussed them with a friend (the pro who wants him to use speakercraft.)

I don't think he had any idea about the necessity for an amp nor the cost of a whole house audio system so cheers for the heads-up on those issues.

His budget for the much alluded to nebulous 5.1 system is being upped from 1.5k to +3k and I am glad to have learned that I we should avoid in-wall/in-ceiling speakers for that system.

This weekend we are going to try and get out and listen to some speakers. Are there any other specific models or vendors you guys recommend for:

5.1 system (I guess it could be 7.1 if that is 'better') $3,000 Also, is the cinema-stick a good idea for this setup?
2.0 Weatherproof outside speakers $400-550
2.0 In wall speakers for the kitchen/dining room $400-450

Lastly, I would like to add that my brother is a recent college grad with humble tastes when it comes to speakers. We aren't audiophiles (yet) but we are music nuts! Up until now we have gotten by with logitech Z-2300's and sennheiser hd-600's, but he is looking for a significant upgrade...

Once again thank you all so much for your patience and expertise. I am confident that your responses have helped us out immeasurably!

This is also a response to my mirror post at:
avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19831006#post19831006

 

[digicidal]

Cinema-stick? Not in my experience... but you could listen to a couple and see what you think. If he's got an open-back area he might want to look into using in-ceiling speakers for the rear surrounds if having stand-mounts would be a traffic problem or wall mounted surrounds is problematic because of the layout (I have a similar layout and am trying to figure out how to deal with surround placement).

That's alot of air to move - so I'd look at spending a good chunk of that budget on a good sub - and you'll get more by going ID vs B&M (Internet direct vs Brick&Mortar store). However, as far as suggestions for speakers - you've really got to go hear more. Hit up a few stores (Best Buy, Ultimate Electronics, and if you have any some custom HiFi stores too). Don't be afraid to listen to models that are out of your price range at first. Chances are if you find something you really like - even if it's $8K - someone on here can suggest something that is 80% of the same sound for 20% of the price.

It would be possible to get a good receiver with one or two extra zone outputs and a couple of cheap amps to power the kitchen/patio area too. I won't recommend much in here - much more experienced people will I'm sure however.

I think your brother is on the right track - I just wish I had been there when my house was built so I could do the same thing. Just having all of the wires pulled and extras at that... will make for relatively pain-free upgrades and expansion as time goes on.

 

[FirstReflection]

I've personally found SpeakerCraft products to be decidedly, "meh".

They are not the worst, they are not the best. They are a popular brand among custom installers because they offer high profit margins. You can spend the same amount of money and gleen better performance.

For in-walls and in-ceilings, I'm most partial to the offerings from RBH. You can't expect top-level performance from any in-ceiling speaker, but RBH absolutely nails the mid-range in everything they make and that is, by far, the most important frequency range to get right.

Paradigm makes some good in-walls, but many of their models are over-priced IMO.

Given the price range though, I'm going to actually give my highest recommendation (in this particular case) to Aperion Audio. In fact, Aperion would be a good option for purchasing all of the speakers.

Anyone here on the boards who knows me will know that my favorite subwoofer company is HSU, so that would be my recommendation for subwoofers It's not that I necessarily think that every HSU subwoofer is the absolute best in its given price range. It's just that HSU is the only subwoofer manufacturer who has never been the source of a big headache for me and their subwoofers' performances are always at or near the top for their price range. HSU is easy to deal with and they have their products in stock and ready to ship, so that's a big part of it for me.

So, give aperionaudio.com a good look. I think you'll like the pricing and performance. And a 5 speaker package for the living room from Aperion would be a pretty good choice as well if you want to make your entire speaker purchase from one company. Personally, for the subwoofers, I'll point you to hsuresearch.com .

Oh, and be sure to decouple your subwoofers (whatever you choose). Decoupling makes a noticeable difference by greatly reducing room resonance, allowing your subwoofers to sound as "tight", clean and distortion free as they are able. The biggest reason to decouple though is to reduce the structural shaking that you get if you just put your subwoofers on the floor directly. Not only do you reduce the annoying rattles and such, but you GREATLY cut down on bass "bleeding" into other rooms in the house. Decoupling is not a panacea for all bass problems, but it's a very worthwhile improvement for a relatively very low cost. Personally, I wish that a decoupling device were simply included with every subwoofer out there! But since they aren't, my favorite decoupling devices are the Auralex GRAMMA, Great GRAMMA and SubDude. You can find them all at Amazon, or at the Auralex authorized dealer, sweetwater.com. Just choose the model that will be large enough to fit your subwoofers. If your chosen subwoofers have "feet", then make sure that they will fit onto the decoupling platform. The SubDude ($50) is 15" x 15", the GRAMMA (also $50) is 15" x 23" and the Great GRAMMA ($100) is 19" x 30". If you happen to choose really big subwoofers, remember that for the same $100 as the Great GRAMMA, you can get two GRAMMA risers to make a 30" x 23" platform

Hope that helps!

 

[Bass Bum]

I'm doing something similar in a house I am having built right now. In the family room I am doing a 5.1 setup using in-ceiling speakers. At this point, my plan is to use DefTech DI-8R in-ceiling speakers which I can get for cost. The display will be a wall mount display. The subwoofer will be free-standing.

I am perfectly aware that a setup such of this is not ideal when it comes to sound/imaging. However, a primary concern for this room is a very clean and uncluttered look. I don't want a bunch of speakers sitting around openly visible to the world, and neither does my GF.

A few of the other rooms will be wired for sound. This is strictly ambient (background) music so no subwoofer will be used in these rooms. Again, a very clean and "invisible" look is what is desirable here.

The final room will be the HT room. This room will be 13 x 18.6 x 8 and will be wired for 9.2 (probably end up wiring for 11.2 based off of DTS's new format). This room will have free standing LCRs and wall mounted surrounds with two free standing subwoofers.

The builder will be running all of the wiring (I don't have a choice there) and I will be doing all of the install after we close.

 

[AVRat]

1 Zone ==> Sub-zones from 1 Source. A single source can also be fed to multiple Zones. You cannot play multiple sources to sub-zones.

The MAIN ZONE is usually the HT setup with no sub-zones, since most receiver/processors aren't set up for this type functionality. How the zones are set up depends on how they'll be utilized, how many sources you'll have, and how much independency you want.

For a small area like the laundry, maybe master bath, there are also single-stereo type in-ceilings to help cut costs.