Onkyo Tx-Rz50 vs Denon X3800H

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah if I were married it would be more your way. Not just about $, but just respecting and enjoying each others' interests or providing room for separation if needed....but am happily single at the end and no regrets!

We generally figure out how to split the difference here. It’s a give any take, and definitely not just about money!
Happily single works very nicely too! My brother just turned 46 and is single. Works great for him, and I can’t anything away from him for that.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I hear ya. I do like what @lovinthehd said about respecting and enjoying each other’s interests and still giving each other healthy space. It’s definitely about mutual respect. My wife and I never expect anything from each other, we don’t ever tell each other what to do, we ask. Works well for us and keeps us both happy, but I digress.

It’s a good way to do it. We pretty much do that here!

 

[Rylan]

RSL has been reviewed and tested on audioholics and highly recommended by @gene and other members here for a reason. Your getting a system that's much better then mid level RSL systems punch way above they're price point.

We're only recommending you move up someday because you like it loud and you like dynamics. Which RSL can do but there's no replacement for displacement as us audioholics like to say.

To get that crazy awesome oomph that you sound like your really looking for someday you'll need to get bigger speakers that can move some more air. Until then RSL is more then capable of keeping you happy

I get excited thinking about the crazy awesome oomph that hits you in the chest. That may be the time to build my own home theater room

 

[Rylan]

It’s a good way to do it. We pretty much do that here!

Awesome! Glad to hear that brother. And I also agree, nothing wrong with being happily single!

 

[lovinthehd]

I get excited thinking about the crazy awesome oomph that hits you in the chest. That may be the time to build my own home theater room

A lot of that is the spl level, so if you have capable gear (and not just subs but your speakers, too) and turn it up that loud....oh yeah!

 

[Rylan]

A lot of that is the spl level, so if you have capable gear (and not just subs but your speakers, too) and turn it up that loud....oh yeah!

So Sensitivity plays a big part in that chest slam?

 

[lovinthehd]

So Sensitivity plays a big part in that chest slam?

Not particularly. More about overall spl to generate that kind of body experience. Somewhat the particular range of audio that does that and appropriate speakers/subs that provide that. Sensitivity of speakers more affects amp power needs in general.

 

[PENG]

Great! I will get a second sub. Also, I am going to explore the CG25s as well as do some comparisons. Does moving from a sensitivity of 86 to an 88 make much of a noticeable difference?

It isn't much, but enough to be noticeable. If you convert dB to multiples, you can see that every dB change will result in significant change in the amplifier power requirements in terms of "watts":

If your current power requirement is 100 W, 2 dB higher speaker sensitivity will drop the requirement by 1.5849 times, to 63 W.

Conversely. if sensitivity is 2 dB lower, power requirement will go up to 158.5 W.

Speaker's sensitivity, and distance have a lot more effects on power amplifier output requirements than a lot of AVR owners may expect.

dB	Multiples
0.000​	1.0000​
0.500​	1.1220​
1.000​	1.2589​
1.500​	1.4125​
2.000​	1.5849​
2.500​	1.7783​
3.000​	1.9953​

 

[Davvy]

I just got the RZ-50 a few days ago and I really like it, except for the feet. Instead of a thin piece of glued rubber that is usually found on the plastic feet they put cork material. I really dislike it, just pushing the avr in my cabinet a couple of pieces of cork came off. I'll admit though my cabinet shelve has a rough texture more then normal, but still why cork. I could leave it alone but I won't cause I tend to have to move stuff often. I'll have to scrap off the cork and replace with some self adhesive rubber pads.

 

[Rylan]

It isn't much, but enough to be noticeable. If you convert dB to multiples, you can see that every dB change will result in significant change in the amplifier power requirements in terms of "watts":

If your current power requirement is 100 W, 2 dB higher speaker sensitivity will drop the requirement by 1.5849 times, to 63 W.

Conversely. if sensitivity is 2 dB lower, power requirement will go up to 158.5 W.

Speaker's sensitivity, and distance have a lot more effects on power amplifier output requirements than a lot of AVR owners may expect.

dB	Multiples
0.000​	1.0000​
0.500​	1.1220​
1.000​	1.2589​
1.500​	1.4125​
2.000​	1.5849​
2.500​	1.7783​
3.000​	1.9953​

That really is a significant change in amplifier power in terms of watts. Thank you for the chart. Also the 2 calculators @lovinthehd posted yesterday are helpful too

 

[PENG]

That really is a significant change in amplifier power in terms of watts. Thank you for the chart. Also the 2 calculators @lovinthehd posted yesterday are helpful too

Actually if the second RSL speed is not enough, you still have an option that won't cost you too much.
Rythmik Audio • 12" servo subwoofer FVX12

For $1100 more you will get the missing deep bass range below 20 Hz. Above 20 Hz, two RSL speed subs should be able to give you some chest pounding effects, you are just missing the tactile bass that those small 10 inch subs just cannot provide. Since your two RSL speed subs can be placed symmetrically without any issue, you can just use a Y-connector for them and use the 2nd one for the Rythmik, or other manufacturer's equivalent.

The below 25 hz range is very non directional so you can put the Rythmik where it can do best in the deep bass range and out of the way.

Again, that's only if two RSL can't satisfy you and you can wait until you are ready for that 10-25 Hz range to arrive.

 

[Rylan]

Actually if the second RSL speed is not enough, you still have an option that won't cost you too much.
Rythmik Audio • 12" servo subwoofer FVX12

For $1100 more you will get the missing deep bass range below 20 Hz. Above 20 Hz, two RSL speed subs should be able to give you some chest pounding effects, you are just missing the tactile bass that those small 10 inch subs just cannot provide. Since your two RSL speed subs can be placed symmetrically without any issue, you can just use a Y-connector for them and use the 2nd one for the Rythmik, or other manufacturer's equivalent.

The below 25 hz range is very non directional so you can put the Rythmik where it can do best in the deep bass range and out of the way.

Again, that's only if two RSL can't satisfy you and you can wait until you are ready for that 10-25 Hz range to arrive.

That is a great option. I do want to make sure I’m understanding correctly. So if I purchase two of the RSL speed woofers, and I’m not satisfied, I can add in one rhythmik 12 inch giving me a total of 3 subs which I can connect the Rhythmik with a Y-connector to one of the RSL’s?

 

[PENG]

That is a great option. I do want to make sure I’m understanding correctly. So if I purchase two of the RSL speed woofers, and I’m not satisfied, I can add in one rhythmik 12 inch giving me a total of 3 subs which I can connect the Rhythmik with a Y-connector to one of the RSL’s?

Not quite, you should use a Y to connect the 2 RSL subs because they are identical and equidistance to your ears so there is little need to time aligned them. The 12" Rymthmic is a different sub with different characteristics so it is better to have it on its own sub out so that Audyssey can time aligned it with the RSL subs for best possible results.

I used to recommend SVS all the time but now I find Rymthmik's prices are much better. HSU's are good values too but I like Rymthmik's specs a little more.

 

[Rylan]

Not quite, you should use a Y to connect the 2 RSL subs because they are identical and equidistance to your ears so there is little need to time aligned them. The 12" Rymthmic is a different sub with different characteristics so it is better to have it on its own sub out so that Audyssey can time aligned it with the RSL subs for best possible results.

I used to recommend SVS all the time but now I find Rymthmik's prices are much better. HSU's are good values too but I like Rymthmik's specs a little more.

Thank you for clearing that up. I like the option of getting the 2 RSL subs, then I can purchase and add a Rythmik at anytime in the future. Thank you

 

[lovinthehd]

@PENG What makes the FVX12 from Rythmik a particularly good deal at $1100?

 

[PENG]

@PENG What makes the FVX12 from Rythmik a particularly good deal at $1100?

I have not been in the market for subs so I am not sure if that's a good deal (I hope I didn't say that). When I was searching for one, I did find Rythmik's pricing more friendly, without sacrificing performance.

Take a look of the FVX12's performance, with one port open:
It practically extends to 14 Hz anechoic presumably. I don't think something like the HSU, Outlaw, Monolith can match that at the $1100 mark. So again, not sure if that's a good deal, but a good value for sure imo..

 

[Danzilla31]

I have not been in the market for subs so I am not sure if that's a good deal (I hope I didn't say that). When I was searching for one, I did find Rythmik's pricing more friendly, without sacrificing performance.

Take a look of the FVX12's performance, with one port open:
It practically extends to 14 Hz anechoic presumably. I don't think something like the HSU, Outlaw, Monolith can match that at the $1100 mark. So again, not sure if that's a good deal, but a good value for sure imo..

View attachment 59378

Also when you consider the price increase on SVS and other comoanies I can see why you'd go with the Ruthmik as an option. This sub looks like a great performer. Owning Rythmik myself I must admit I'm a little biased

 

[lovinthehd]

I have not been in the market for subs so I am not sure if that's a good deal (I hope I didn't say that). When I was searching for one, I did find Rythmik's pricing more friendly, without sacrificing performance.

Take a look of the FVX12's performance, with one port open:
It practically extends to 14 Hz anechoic presumably. I don't think something like the HSU, Outlaw, Monolith can match that at the $1100 mark. So again, not sure if that's a good deal, but a good value for sure imo..

View attachment 59378

I guess you just said it "won't cost you too much" now that I look again . What spl can it do 14 at? It does dig deeper with that particular port combo, but.....is it going to be actually useful when combined with the other two after eq? I'd still rather just go with better subs if the RSLs don't cut the mustard rather than adding a third box for a few hz of extension....

 

[Timforhifi]

If it was me I’d look at buying one better sub now and adding a second later if needed. $800 for a pair of rsl 10’s isn’t a bad deal but it’s a real entry level product. Seems like a bad investment that you’ll sell within the first year. Resale isn’t great on rsl speakers and not because of quality, but for their more niche standing.
I saw the Rythmik fvx12 was mentioned at $1100. The monoprice monolith 15 is regularly on sale around $1100 and will destroy that Rythmik. You’d need 4 or maybe 5 speedwoofers to equal the output of one mono 15. In a room that large you need more power.

you should also have much more money in speakers than your avr. Denon 4700 won’t sound any different than a used denon 4500 or a 3700. I know you have a 9ch setup so you’ll need a little higher end avr. Right now your avr costs as much as all your speakers. If those rsl don’t get loud enough right now they’ll only sound worse over time. The in ceiling are ok but I’d look at a different front sound stage at the very least.

you said you’ve spent around $5500 with everything? That’s all 9.1 rsl and denon 4700?

If you’re interested I could build you a much better setup for $5000.

mono 15 $1100
Focal 826 $1400 a pair
Focal chora center $450
Focal chora surrounds $600
You can buy any avr you want under $1500 and meet your $5000 total.

I could build multiple other setups as well with Jbl, wharfedale, revel and more.

 

[PENG]

I guess you just said it "won't cost you too much" now that I look again . What spl can it do 14 at? It does dig deeper with that particular port combo, but.....is it going to be actually useful when combined with the other two after eq? I'd still rather just go with better subs if the RSLs don't cut the mustard rather than adding a third box for a few hz of extension....

Of course, that's why I specifically mentioned "Above 20 Hz, two RSL speed subs should be able to give you some chest pounding effects, you are just missing the tactile bass that those small 10 inch subs just cannot provide."

So I agree, unless he wants to feel the below 20Hz, my comments on the Rythmik sub can be ignored.