Of Experts, Advice, Marketing and $1500

[ousooner2]

Dwaleke -- Any more conclusions on the EMP/Ascend 340 comparison? They're about the same price, with the e55ti being about 40% less at times.

I'd just like to hear your opinions on it as the Ascends get complimented A LOT on here, but not much mention of EMP, although they're +/- 2db, have good off-axis response, large and puurty , etc etc

 

[LitoGeorge]

Awesome to read where this thread has gone. Never heard of those speakers until catching up now.

I've gone with the HSU VTF3 and the Ascend 340/HTM200 compliment for a nice 5.1 setup. I'll be sure to offer an opinion here once its all setup and hopefully it'll sound better than that $500 HTiaB LG system I recently sent back

 

[dwaleke]

Dwaleke -- Any more conclusions on the EMP/Ascend 340 comparison? They're about the same price, with the e55ti being about 40% less at times.

I'd just like to hear your opinions on it as the Ascends get complimented A LOT on here, but not much mention of EMP, although they're +/- 2db, have good off-axis response, large and puurty , etc etc

This is a bit tougher than I thought it was going to be. I have been doing all of my testing with an Onkyo 818 receiver and an Emotiva XPA-5 amplifier. Well I just picked up an Emotiva UMC-200 and believe it or not it may be changing my opinion of the speakers.

Audyssey in the 818 seems to boost the higher frequencies in my room. With the EMP Teks it seems to bring them alive a bit more which is what I believe those speakers need. With the 340s it comes across as over bright.

With the UMC-200 this changes. In fact after doing a/b tests with the EMP Teks and the 818/200 I actually pulled the 340s and HTM-200s out of the boxes and set them up. The difference between the 818 and 200 is quite significant. In fact the first time I plugged in the UMC-200 I immediately thought to myself that it was going back in the box and was going to be sent back. But after using the 200 exclusively for 3 days and then going back to the 818 I actually preferred the sound of the 200.

Most of my testing was with Bluray movies. Although I do have some high quality music tracks along with a 24-bit 96khz 5.1 channel bluray music disc. With the UMC there is quite a bit more headroom before hearing any audible distortion at very high levels with both sets of speakers.

I received an e-mail back from Dave at Ascend. He was surprised that I wanted to return the 340s and asked a few questions. One thing he did mention was that the last time someone sent back a pair of 340s was Feb 2010.

Basically I need to do more testing now that I plan on using the UMC-200 exclusively. I set the 340s back up two days ago and haven't switched back to the EMP Teks yet. Hopefully I'll get some time this weekend.

If someone was looking at either of these speakers I honestly believe they couldn't could wrong with either. Especially the EMP Teks at the Black Friday sale price, but knowing that they sell at that price 2-3 times a year I would not be happy if I paid full price. To be honest a lot of people comment on how beautiful the cabinets are on the EMP Teks and I actually prefer the simple plain look of the 340s. Even my girlfriend mentioned that the EMP Tek cabinets do not match the subwoofers and would prefer the Ascends over the EMP Teks.

 

[ousooner2]

Nice pick up on the xpa-5 and umc-200. Seems like you need a bit more time to compare and really decide the differences between each, what you like and don't like, etc. I don't run any EQ on the e55ti's, but I'd like to try Audyssey at some point if I switch over to Denon just to see what it does. I like the EQ from my MS-8 in my car, but home audio and car audio are different ballgames

Either way, for the amount of love the Ascends get...that's really saying something for the EMP's. Look forward to hearing what you have to say down the road

Which color did you get on the EMP's btw? I personally think the black looks incredible, but of course...just my opinion. Not a fan of that Red Burl.

 

[dwaleke]

I ended up going with the black. Up close they almost look blue though. Overall the finish is pretty nice, but you can see orange peel and swirls in spots.

I'm ok with that though because I'd much rather the money be spent on what's inside than what the box looks like.

 

[ousooner2]

Hmm. I wonder if you're cabinets are "defective". I've read a few people say they got some orange peel or slight swirl marks, but nothing major. Usually on the back or base of the speaker. If you know anything about car detailing, those swirls can be taken care of pretty easily. Most "swirl removers" that you find in stores will just fill in the swirl and eventually wash away after a few rain storms or washes, but with them being inside that should last pretty darn well. You could even put a coat of wax over them if you wanted

My only complaint would be the white-ish color of the midrange drivers. Just a personal preference though

 

[dwaleke]

The base is definitely no good on mine. Tons of scratches as if someone dragged the bottom across sand paper. Figured there was just no care done to the bottom since well no one will ever see it.

But I don't think they are defective at all. Just how they come.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

e55ti

(3) 6.5" midwoofers
(2) 5.25" midranges
(1) large format 1" silk dome

Pretty close drivers size specs to the Studio 100's. Not sure what the true measurements are, but the 100's say +/- 2db from 44-20kHz, while the e55ti's say +/- 3db from 44-20kHz. Not too shabby for a sub $500/pr at times . Not too shabby at all

Crap, I just noticed you are a Sooner, I am not allowed to talk to you so please forget our conversation...

 

[ousooner2]

The base is definitely no good on mine. Tons of scratches as if someone dragged the bottom across sand paper. Figured there was just no care done to the bottom since well no one will ever see it.

But I don't think they are defective at all. Just how they come.

Mine arent scratched at all...anywhere. You might want to contact EMP

Crap, I just noticed you are a Sooner, I am not allowed to talk to you so please forget our conversation...

Lol. I am a sooner, but only because I graduated from there with my Petroleum Geology degree. Grew up an OSU fan because my brother went there...so not a real die hard fan of OU

 

[LitoGeorge]

I am afraid my original title in this thread is a bit outdated - I spent over twice the budget. In particular, thanks to Ziegl, Hizzaah and FirstReflection especially for driving me over the edge.

Here's what I ended up with:

Onkyo 818
Ascend 340SE Fronts
Ascend 340SEC Centre
Ascend HTM200 Surrounds
HSU VTF3MK4 Sub
12Gauge Monoprice cabling etc etc

First impressions: disappointment.

I hooked up only the sub, fronts and centre and I think I am disappointed in the Ascends. I have not received their stands yet (they are on backorder) and so the stands are on sturdy steel and wood frames, but for the money over a HTiaB, I dont think its worth 6-8x the coin.

To be fair: I did not do any fancy setup. I just stuck em in (having done nice work on the cabling), stuck the ATV3 into the Onkyo and plugged em into my 65ST50 Panny.

Played some songs on FLAC and was a bit dissapointed. The HSU absolutely rocks - but was boomy to begin with. I have not any adjustment there, literally have not had time. Its output is generous though and I love how it shakes my cabinetry.

At 50% output I can talk above the speakers in a regular voice. I am floored with that - I thought 50% would drown me out largely. At 80% its nice and loud, but not party like. At 90% its getting good and at 95% its loud. Period. But, I am amazed that I have to output at that level in order to really enjoy whats going on.

I dont think the soundstage is impressive, there is little clarity (imo), and so far the best money spent is for that HSU.

I hope that I have done something terribly wrong. Sure, its early days - but there is no "I went slackjawed..." according to the reviews I read on the Ascend website, neither from the glowing reports on this forum.

So, any insight is welcome here, and I would love to have it.

 

[brianedm]

I am afraid my original title in this thread is a bit outdated - I spent over twice the budget. In particular, thanks to Ziegl, Hizzaah and FirstReflection especially for driving me over the edge.

Here's what I ended up with:

Onkyo 818
Ascend 340SE Fronts
Ascend 340SEC Centre
Ascend HTM200 Surrounds
HSU VTF3MK4 Sub
12Gauge Monoprice cabling etc etc

First impressions: disappointment.

I hooked up only the sub, fronts and centre and I think I am disappointed in the Ascends. I have not received their stands yet (they are on backorder) and so the stands are on sturdy steel and wood frames, but for the money over a HTiaB, I dont think its worth 6-8x the coin.

To be fair: I did not do any fancy setup. I just stuck em in (having done nice work on the cabling), stuck the ATV3 into the Onkyo and plugged em into my 65ST50 Panny.

Played some songs on FLAC and was a bit dissapointed. The HSU absolutely rocks - but was boomy to begin with. I have not any adjustment there, literally have not had time. Its output is generous though and I love how it shakes my cabinetry.

At 50% output I can talk above the speakers in a regular voice. I am floored with that - I thought 50% would drown me out largely. At 80% its nice and loud, but not party like. At 90% its getting good and at 95% its loud. Period. But, I am amazed that I have to output at that level in order to really enjoy whats going on.

I dont think the soundstage is impressive, there is little clarity (imo), and so far the best money spent is for that HSU.

I hope that I have done something terribly wrong. Sure, its early days - but there is no "I went slackjawed..." according to the reviews I read on the Ascend website, neither from the glowing reports on this forum.

So, any insight is welcome here, and I would love to have it.

Run audyssey. You'll probably be surprised by the difference it makes.

 

[dwaleke]

I am afraid my original title in this thread is a bit outdated - I spent over twice the budget. In particular, thanks to Ziegl, Hizzaah and FirstReflection especially for driving me over the edge.

Here's what I ended up with:

Onkyo 818
Ascend 340SE Fronts
Ascend 340SEC Centre
Ascend HTM200 Surrounds
HSU VTF3MK4 Sub
12Gauge Monoprice cabling etc etc

First impressions: disappointment.

I hooked up only the sub, fronts and centre and I think I am disappointed in the Ascends. I have not received their stands yet (they are on backorder) and so the stands are on sturdy steel and wood frames, but for the money over a HTiaB, I dont think its worth 6-8x the coin.

To be fair: I did not do any fancy setup. I just stuck em in (having done nice work on the cabling), stuck the ATV3 into the Onkyo and plugged em into my 65ST50 Panny.

Played some songs on FLAC and was a bit dissapointed. The HSU absolutely rocks - but was boomy to begin with. I have not any adjustment there, literally have not had time. Its output is generous though and I love how it shakes my cabinetry.

At 50% output I can talk above the speakers in a regular voice. I am floored with that - I thought 50% would drown me out largely. At 80% its nice and loud, but not party like. At 90% its getting good and at 95% its loud. Period. But, I am amazed that I have to output at that level in order to really enjoy whats going on.

I dont think the soundstage is impressive, there is little clarity (imo), and so far the best money spent is for that HSU.

I hope that I have done something terribly wrong. Sure, its early days - but there is no "I went slackjawed..." according to the reviews I read on the Ascend website, neither from the glowing reports on this forum.

So, any insight is welcome here, and I would love to have it.

I have a very similar setup to you although I am driving my Ascends with an Emotiva XPA-5 amplifier. Actually I switched from the Onkyo 818 to a Emotiva UMC-200 and I am glad I did. If I would have kept the Onkyo I probably would have sent back the Ascends. I don't know how to describe it, but the Onkyo made everything sound really bright with the Ascends. Mostly with the Audyssey calibration, but with the Audyssey EQ turned off as well.

As you can see from earlier in the thread I was comparing the Ascends to EMP Tek Impression series speakers. The Onkyo/EMPTek combo actually sounds really good. Although when listening to music at very high levels you can hear distortion from the tweeters. That didn't happen with the Ascends.

As for volume levels I'd run Audyssey and let it set speaker levels to reference and proper distances for the speakers. That alone makes a pretty big difference. It's possible the Onkyo 818 doesn't have enough power to drive all your Ascends although I don't think that is the case. Unfortunately I never tested driving the speakers directly with the 818. I always had the Emotiva XPA-5 in the mix to ensure that the speakers always had enough power.

 

[FirstReflection]

Hi, George.

Well, of course I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed. But, this might sound a little weird, I'm also kinda glad. The reason I'm kinda glad is because all too often, folks plug everything in, get "satisfactory" results, and then never give it a second thought. In a case like yours, at least you're aware that something ain't right! And now we can make sure everything is not simply functional, but also optimized. That's a great thing

To begin, every product you listed there is a great, high value component. Simply put, the gear is not "to blame". But that doesn't mean there isn't something wrong!

If anything. This just illustrates why I always harp on about the room being a full 50% of any system. It's a bit like buying great new tires, putting them in the trunk of your car, and then wondering why your car doesn't drive better That's an exaggeration, of course. But it's to illustrate my point that great gear, all by itself, does not equal a great audio system. The gear must be used properly. And as much as we might want it to be, a surround sound system is not "plug 'n play".

So...there are three things to consider right away. We might be facing a problem with any one, two, or all 3 of them:

1) Placement/Room Acoustics/Setup

We need some pictures I'm often amazed at how "creative" some folks are when it comes to where they think the various speakers are supposed to be placed

We need to see you setup so we can suggest any corrections that might be necessary. Without knowing your exact situation, I will simply point you to the THX Speaker Placement Guidelines, as your basic starting point. Please be sure to read the full descriptions in addition to just using the diagrams as a guide.

Once we know all of the speakers are properly placed, we can turn our attention to the room acoustics. In a case like yours, where you don't plan to stay in this room for a long time, it doesn't really make sense to go to great lengths or expense to fully treat your room with acoustic panels. But there might be some really obvious problems that you can treat in more "natural" ways, such as rugs, or curtains, or shelves.

After that's all addressed, we need to go step by step through the setup. This includes wiring, then using Audyssey, and then selecting the correct listening modes for each input and type of content.

2) Source Quality

One of the "problems" with having a very accurate and transparent audio system is that it lays the quality of your recordings bare! Garbage in, garbage out, as they say. Often, people are not prepared for hearing what their favourite recordings ACTUALLY sound like!

3) User Expectation

Humans don't like change. And we tend to come to think of whatever we're used to as being "right". As much as I do believe the ultimate goal for any home theatre is to make its owner happy, I don't subscribe to the notion that we should throw education and accuracy out the window if we don't like it right away. There's an adjustment period. Lots of people don't like the look of an accurate, properly calibrated TV when they first see one. They think it looks too dull, too dim, and not vibrant or as high in contrast as they want.

In audio, an accurate surround sound system is often met with a similar reaction. It doesn't sound like a car stereo, or what they were used to with their TV speakers, or their old sound system.

I talked a lot about how these Ascend speakers are like going from DVD to Blu-ray. A $600 HTiB might be like VHS in this analogy. You double the price, get the Pioneer speakers, a $350 sub, and a $300 Receiever, and it's like going from VHS to DVD. BIG improvement. "Twice as good"? Maybe. Probably. Yes.

Then you double the price again. Ascend SE speakers, $550 sub, $500 Receiever. And it's like going from DVD to Blu-ray. You've gone even farther, to an even more capable (and expensive) subwoofer and Receiver. But is it "twice as good" again? Unfortunately, no. Much like going from DVD to Blu-ray, it's just not the same HUGE jump as going from VHS to DVD. But that doesn't mean it's not "worth it". It's just diminishing returns is all.

But, just like going from DVD to Blu-ray, once you're used to Blu-ray, that's when it's really hard to go back to DVD! You look at DVD the first time, and it looks great! You look at Blu-ray, and you go, "yeah, it's a bit better. Not really that much though". But then you get used to Blu-ray and try to go back. Now, all of a sudden, DVD don't look so hot anymore

So there could be a number of factors at play here. But first and foremost, we've gotta make sure your placement, room acoustics, and setup are correct. Once we know that they are, you'll need to adjust to the new sound quality, which will take a bit of time. And you'll notice just how much the quality changes from recording to recording! You'll be hearing your recordings as they really are. Possibly for the very first time

Then you should go back and compare your "new" ears to the old sound you were used to. Be prepared for a shock

But I can promise you, your selection of gear is not the problem. That said, they're only half of the system. So don't panic just yet

 

[FirstReflection]

I'll also toss in this link to a great tutorial on using Audyssey:

Tutorial: AV Receivers and Amps Auto EQ Set up - YouTube

Some of the sound quality issues I've read in this thread sound an awful lot like microphone placement problems - ie. having the mic too close to the back of the seat, or otherwise mispositioning the mic during the Audyssey setup

 

[jostenmeat]

I have multiple friends with Ascends. The latest has some 340s after my suggestion. I don't think they sound very good in his basement PJ setup right now. Many of the below could* have been avoided, but some can no longer be at this point with decisions made.

1. The speakers are too close together.
2. They are much too close to the front wall.
3. They pretty much have zero toe in.
4. He has yet to run Audyssey XT on his Denon.
5. The center is WAY too low (this will be addressed at some point).

When I was last watching something there, I was in the left seat of 3 available HT seats (additional stool seating in the back), and it pretty much felt like I was only hearing the left speaker in a 7.1 rig (completed by a HSU sub). Seriously, it was as if the left speaker was shouting at me the whole time, to the point where I never really heard much of the other six.

The other friend with Ascends has the more lowly 170SE, just as stereo, but they image better, and are clearer too; understand this is only a ridiculously unreliable subjective opinion, but still they're the impressions I have so far been left with.

One tiny nit to pick: I think the difference between DVD to BD is WAY MORE THAN DOUBLE, haha. After all you're getting about 6x the resolution! Forget the (huge) audio difference. Also as a side note, there is a greater % difference in horizontal lines of rez between BD/DVD than with DVD/VHS! Doesn't tell the whole story, but still!

 

[LitoGeorge]

Gentlemen, thank you for fine contributions. I am digesting what has been said, and feel that I should mount my surrounds and finalise their in wall /ceiling cabling before I run the Audyssey again.

For reference, I ran the Audyssey on the front 4 speakers only at ear level (couch, seated, supported independently, and as quiet as possible) and there was an improvement.

Prior to this, I noticed that my speakers were set to 6ohms on the Onkyo and only 4/6 ohms were selectable which seemed odd.

I'll be back to contribute properly and work a solution as it certainly seems that despite my poor experiences so far with the Ascends, that you stand firmly behind their quality.

Tx, George

 

[jostenmeat]

Gentlemen, thank you for fine contributions. I am digesting what has been said, and feel that I should mount my surrounds and finalise their in wall /ceiling cabling before I run the Audyssey again.

For reference, I ran the Audyssey on the front 4 speakers only at ear level (couch, seated, supported independently, and as quiet as possible) and there was an improvement.

Prior to this, I noticed that my speakers were set to 6ohms on the Onkyo and only 4/6 ohms were selectable which seemed odd.

I'll be back to contribute properly and work a solution as it certainly seems that despite my poor experiences so far with the Ascends, that you stand firmly behind their quality.

Tx, George

Just leave it at 6 ohms, for most potential use of your amps. However, with my own much older Onkyo, the 4 ohm setting DRAMATICALLY reduces operating temp, and as I've never used its amp section, this was a welcome thing for me.

Absolutely find the best positions before running Audyssey. The EQ is the very very very last thing you do; you finalize seating positions, speaker positions, room treatment positions, even coffee table positions and everything else before EQ is finalized. Ear level is the WTG. A mic stand/boom is the WTG, I might advise throwing a thick blanket over leather seats to feebly attempt some human HF absorption, etc, I didn't watch the attached vid above.

But in the end, you very well might not like the speakers! Thankfully they have a guarantee. While you still have them during the "trial period" it might be a good idea to see if you can bring in some competitors to compare with. We'd all be interested.

 

[FirstReflection]

Hi, George.

Yes, I most definitely stand behind the Ascends' quality. And to be honest, I AM surprised that you are so disappointed by them. Even if there are placement and room acoustic issues, their clarity and accuracy are usually quite evident - even if it's just a situation of being right in front of just one speaker and playing it in mono. The speakers themselves are about as neutral and transparent to what is being fed into them as is possible at their price point.

That said, I would, of course, never suggest that you should keep products with which you are unhappy! And Ascend will take them back and refund your money if it comes to that. But there would be an even greater challenge after returning them if we don't figure out what is causing your dissatisfaction first. The challenge would be in recommending any alternatives because if you don't like the sound of the Ascend speakers, I'd only be guessing as to what sort of sound you're actually after.

To be clear, there are plenty of people who just straight up prefer a different reproduction of sound. Folks who do not want accurate sound reproduction, and instead, prefer something that lives up to their expectations, rather than just "telling it like it is". And that's perfectly fine! The goal is to be happy with what you buy, ultimately. And it's the same with folks who just straight up don't like an industry standards-calibrated television image.

But my approach is to always start with a neutral, accurate reproduction - unless a person is coming in with a very clear and experienced understanding of what they want, with the full acceptance that it isn't necessarily accurate, but simply pleasing to their ears. But there needs to be a "base line". A "frame of reference". And we need to make sure that you're starting from a place of neutral, transparent, accurate reproduction. I know that the gear you've purchased performs in that way. And proper placement will simply create a situation where you're hearing your recordings for what they are. Now, if you don't like that, if you don't enjoy it, then we need to make some changes! And that's ok. I would definitely suggest that taking a bit of time to adjust and get used to the sound quality is in order. But at the end of it all, you need to be satisfied. And there are plenty of people who've said, "I've heard or seen accurate. I don't like it. I prefer [insert difference here] instead. And that's what's going to make me happy." I've no problem with that. But I do have an issue with never having heard or seen accurate as the starting point. And, of course, we can only get to that starting point if everything is set up and calibrated properly.

So, let's get it all sorted. Let's get you to accurate, calibrated reproduction. The gear you've purchased can certainly give you that base line. Once you're at that point, and you've had a little bit of time to adjust and get used to it, if you still don't like it...that's unfortunate, since it means the hassle of changing things, or possibly returning items purchased...but it's totally ok. You'll be able to describe what you didn't like, and what changes you would like to hear. And from those desires, we'll be able to recommend products that might better suit your tastes. But we need that starting point, that frame of reference.

Hopefully that makes sense. I see people all the time with those crappy Beats headphones, listening to the horribly distorted, monstrously inaccurate reproduction of modern, dynamically compressed music. And they love it! They think that's "good" sound, and they come to think of it as "right" and they way things "should" sound. If those folks were to hear a setup consisting of the gear you've purchased - all properly set up and calibrated - they'd think something was majorly wrong! They'd think the bass was too quiet, the overall sound too "thin" and lacking "energy" because of the lack of distortion. They'd think voices were too "forward", and that everything sounded "flat" because it wasn't being EQ'd way up at the top and bottom to give the sense of dynamics to music that has none. They'd be hearing their recordings as they actually are, and they'd sound terrible! So accuracy isn't always pleasing. When things aren't distorted, when you turn up the volume, they don't sound "louder", they just sound "closer". When you listen to modern, dynamically compressed music files, they sound "flat" and "lifeless" because they ARE. They have no contrast, no emotion, no sense of rise and fall, give and take, harmony and dissonance. It's all just a robotic "flat line" of empty nothingness. It's crap. Garbage in, garbage out.

BUT, if that's what you want to listen to, if that's the music you enjoy, and you want it to sound "pleasing", then you're not going to like hearing it for what it actually is! Ugly things are easier to look at when you don't have your glasses on But being able to experience accurate sound and picture reproduction is one of the great pleasures in life, too. Being able to evaluate recordings requires seeing and hearing them for what they really are. And, unfortunately, a lot of modern stuff is really, really bad. But there is also great quality stuff. And many movies are chief among them, where there are artists who really care about quality. And seeing and hearing their work reproduced accurately can be amazing, and emotional, and wonderful.

So, tough to say how this will play out. But so long as we position, set up, and calibrate the gear that you've purchased properly, you'll be hearing accurate sound reproduction. The gear itself is a nice, transparent conduit for your content.

 

[LitoGeorge]

Sustained some neck damage recently, and so took time away from the forum to finish hanging ceiling/walls in the garage, mount the rear HTM 200 speakers, get the electronics mostly hooked up downstairs (home theatre room) and attend to pressing home matters. Oh, and that pesky thing called work.

Attached are pictures of my basement (most of it anyway). There are two doors interleading out from the basement. One leads to a washroom and then onto a utility room, and one leads to my office. Lastly, there are open stairs which lead to the middle floor and that has a glass door which I rarely close. Reno's are ongoing daily, and so its a mess. I make no apologies, this wasnt ready for a magazine spread.

Pics of TV/AV equipment:

:

Pic of rear speakers/position:



Artists rendition of basement layout (mostly):




Experiences:

With all speakers mainly in place, (the rear HTM's are going to have to be there for the time being, despite not being optimal for audio precision - I get that) I ran the full Audyssey XT32. I found the best movie reproduction being THX2 Plus Movie setting.

Movies:

Played Tron through a PS3 (Blu Ray) and it was magnificent. Heavy Bass that I felt in my entire body, the walls shook. Epic stuff. I felt exhausted after that movie despite having seen it before, and I think its entirely due to the sound output. I had her cranked to 82.5% maximum which the Onkyo 818 says is THX Reference levels. Loved how the base would move around the room with the transport moving around the screen. I could not only see the transporter move right to left to right, but feel the base epicentre make the same pattern. I am still in awe of that experience.

Played Buck (Buck Brannaman, Horse Whisperer guy, Blu Ray) and its more of a documentary. Noted the HSU only worked when there was wind blowing, and the fronts almost never worked. The centre channel did the heavy lifting on this movie as it was dialogue centric really. Didnt feel blown away by the audio, but if you like old school values stuff (and animals), I recommend a viewing. We loaned it from the library.

Played Prometheus Blu Ray 3D and once again - blown away the audio. And visual reproduction, mind. Superb experience, it makes my walls vibrate loudly. I have some screws to tighten in the framework for sure.


Music:

I only have CD's to play right now (apart from Apple TV online radio, etc). And what an utter disappointment.

CD's:

1) Bass heavy Black Eyed Peas - and think it sounded the same as the $500 LG HTiaB I tried before. (albeit with clearer and higher volume).

2) Depeche Mode (electronica pop): same experience.

3) Compilation of pop rock: Wheezer, Linkin Park et al: same experience.


AirPlay music: (FLAC lossless files):

a) DeadMau5 (bass heavy electronic music): wicked awesome. Heavy hitting, clear, no distortion up to 100% of Onkyo 818 output.

b) Fleetwood Mac: awful. Just like the CD's above

c) Awolnation: as above with CD's

d) Clarence Tom Ashley (Greenback Dollar) - folksy music: mediocre as above with CD's

e) Rihanna - as above.


What gives? It seems that I appreciate several things in music. I appreciate hard hitting clean bass on electronic music. At the same time, I truly revel in clarity and seperation of notes when it comes to voices and instruments. I love listening for the pick of the guitar strings in traditional instrumental music, and I love to hear the nuances of voice. When someone changes tone/ key/ has a cold/ is screaming versus singing - I like to hear the clarity of what is going on.

I've largely been disappointed with music on this system despite trying several different inputs of music. Perhaps I need to try this SACD? Its something I read about today on Audioholics, and yet have never heard personally before. I've also tried every single music setting output that the Onkyo has to offer, and none impress. Except for the DeadMau5 example above, nothing else makes me even smile. It largely depresses me.

What to do?

After reading Dwaleke's comments, I feel as if I have the same experience: the Ascends sound "small" to me. And I have a tiny room by all measures. The HSU just kicks out epic bass, and I am thrilled with it. It fits well under my ill placed electrical mains box, and does its job admirably. I am thinking that perhaps I need to get rid of the Onkyo 818 and shell out for an Emotiva Pre/Pro and Amp combo. It will cost me a further $400 if I buy today, and another $600 tomorrow, because I see the promo ends.

I bought B Stock Ascends, so they cant go back. My bad for wanting to try and save a buck, but this system was over double my budget anyway.

I feel that the HTM 200 SE's at the rear dont do that much and therefore they feel like a waste. It could be with placement or the fact that Audyssey doesnt let them have much volume, but when there are surround effects, they are weak. In fact, I got better effect with the LG HTiaB I had before!!!! (yech!)

Ok folks, there you have it. I'm looking forward to feedback and again, thanks to some seriously fine contributions from you forum members. First Reflection, here's a special public thanks too for your continued support.

George

 

[dwaleke]

You may not need an Emo pro/amp combo. I'd recommend trying a different receiver. I recommend Yamaha or Denon. I've had the Aventage A820 and the Denon 1713 and both were pretty good receivers. With that small of a room you should have no problem driving the Ascends to very loud levels with just a receiver alone.

No matter what I did I could never get the Onkyo 818 to sound good with my Ascend speakers. Try running with Audyssey calibration off (Movie/Music/Off) and do some listening tests. I'd also turn off the Dynamic EQ and dynamic volume. Listen to quite a few things for a while with these settings and see how you like them. With making any changes you really need to listen for a while to make sure your ears adjust.

You can also email Dave at Ascend. He has been helping me with my setup. A couple things he mentioned were to place the speakers so the fronts slightly hang off the front of the stands they are on. This way you won't have unnecessary reflections of the top of the surface. He also recommended adjusting the phase on my subwoofers. He suspected that they may be canceling out the 340s. Sure enough they were. With an SPL meter I was able to measure a few DB difference before and after. My subs were set a 0 phase and turning to 180 produced the largest amount of output.

Here's the procedure Dave sent me (I used an SPL meter so it was a bit easier for me):

"You will need to get a disc with some specific tones. The best method is to play a tone that both the subwoofer and the speakers will play when you have the the crossover engaged. 80Hz would be perfect since both the speakers and the subwoofer will reproducing it equally if you are using an 80Hz crossover. Start with the left channel... Completely disconnect the right speaker and the right subwoofer. You should then reverse the polarity at the back of the left speaker (connect the speaker wires such that positive is now going to the negative input and negative is going to positive). Play the 80Hz tone and sit in your listening position. Adjust the phase on the back of the subwoofer such that the 80Hz tone sounds as low in volume as possible. When you find that proper phase setting on the sub, the speaker and subwoofer are now 180 degs out-of-phase with each other. Correct the speaker wire polarity at the back of the speaker (reverse it again so that positive to positive, negative to negative) and now the speaker and subwoofer are in perfect phase. Repeat the process for the right speaker and subwoofer...."

After all this I set the crossover on the 340s to 60hz, but anything between 60-80 is what Dave recommended.


If you have time today maybe go purchase another brand receiver from a store that has 30 day return policy. Test your system with something else and if there is an improvement in overall sound then you may have come to the same conclusion I did. The 818 and the Ascends just are not a good combination.