New speakers, music mainly: Snell, Jamo, Boston Acoustics, Aperion?

[venessian]

The Snell K7 replaced the K5, and has better quality Seas drivers.
The Boston has better drivers than the K5, and sound more realistic.
The Boston will be a little bit more lively sounding, and has more bass
impact. To me they are worth the origional price of $1400 a pair.

I have listened to a high end Jamo, and they are pretty good. I have
not listened to Ascends - the only Ascend speakers that interest me,
are the Sierra's. Based on the company reviews and history - I do
have respect for them.

http://www.snellacoustics.com/K7Lit_31508.pdf
Snell Acoustics | Homepage

Interesting, thanks. Those K7 are beauties, very similar to the K5.

Were Snell able to reduce the driver from 6.5" on the K5 to 5.25" on the K7 because they switched to SEAS? Thanks for those links.

I don't understand why companies like Snell, BA, don't get more love on these forums and in the press. I just read your K7 acquisition thread on the other forum, very well-written, cogent, clear, and yet not one person replied. I don't get it.

I'm back to when you first posted a reply to me: between the Snell and the BA I guess.

One thing: I have let my receiver options creep up to the Marantz. A fellow just now replied on the other forum to a series of questions I had posed re: receivers, and he actually compared a SR5003, SR5004 and Denon 1712 in his home and ended up keeping the 1712. Very similar listening to my wife and I: never real high volume, 86 db speakers. He loves the 1712.

I write this only because the SR5005 at 100W costs $141 more than the 1712 at 90W. If the Denon 1712 were able to drive the Snell or BA VS260, that might swing it to the BA, since the receiver would cost less. At that point, for only $84 more than the Snell/SR5005 would have cost, it becomes a no-brainer: Denon 1712 + BA VS260. What do you think?

 

[zieglj01]

Interesting, thanks. Those K7 are beauties, very similar to the K5.

Were Snell able to reduce the driver from 6.5" on the K5 to 5.25" on the K7 because they switched to SEAS? Thanks for those links.

I don't understand why companies like Snell, BA, don't get more love on these forums and in the press. I just read your K7 acquisition thread on the other forum, very well-written, cogent, clear, and yet not one person replied. I don't get it.

I'm back to when you first posted a reply to me: between the Snell and the BA I guess.

One thing: I have let my receiver options creep up to the Marantz. A fellow just now replied on the other forum to a series of questions I had posed re: receivers, and he actually compared a SR5003, SR5004 and Denon 1712 in his home and ended up keeping the 1712. Very similar listening to my wife and I: never real high volume, 86 db speakers. He loves the 1712.

The K7 is better than the K5 - The K5 will have more bass.
Why people did not respond to my post - I don't know - maybe I
should have talked about the Infinity Primus, or Polk RTI - it is
no big deal to me.
Why no love for the Snell or Boston hi-end - I don't know, marketing
and personal budgets play a big part. As far as reviews, politics will
play a big part. All I know, is that I am very critical and a nit picker -
and these speakers are some of the best I have owned or listened
to - and I have owned 51 different brands of speakers, and listened
to a lot, that I have not bought. I will not say that they are perfect.
You have to decide what is best for you.
As far as receivers, the Marantz is strong and tends to be modest
with their specs - they tend to do better with surround mode power,
over a lot of receivers. Watch out for inflated 6 ohm specs at 1000 khz
it will not be more powerful than the Rms 8 ohms specs. Some will
read 90 watts Rms 8 ohms - then 125 watts 6 ohms @ 1000 khz.
You will not get a true 125 watts.
Buy the best that you can afford - if you choose Boston or Snell. In
reality, the used Snell can bring you lots of joy - Some people will not
be able to pick up, some of the differences between the 2 speakers.
I still think, you may be starting to go around in a circle - sometimes
you just need to make a decision - and if you do take too long, then
somebody will steal the Snells from you. A lot of people read the AVS
and Audioholics forums.

 

[zieglj01]

Buy the best that you can afford - if you choose Boston or Snell.

I meant to say, the best receiver that you can afford.

 

[Swerd]

Were Snell able to reduce the driver from 6.5" on the K5 to 5.25" on the K7 because they switched to SEAS? Thanks for those links.

I don't understand why companies like Snell, BA, don't get more love on these forums and in the press. I just read your K7 acquisition thread on the other forum, very well-written, cogent, clear, and yet not one person replied. I don't get it.

As far as I know, Snell always made use of SEAS drivers, which were and are among the best drivers made. The difference between 6½" and 5¼" drivers make for different cabinet size choices, bass performance, and upper midrange performance. Both sizes can make very good 2-way speakers.

Snell is now out of business, and prior to that, it was no longer an independent company. Their owners had different marketing priorities. Audio forums and the press are all about today's new choices. That does not make the Snell K5 speaker a bad choice for you.

zeiglj01 has heard Snells and Boston Acoustics and can speak from experience.

One thing: I have let my receiver options creep up to the Marantz. A fellow just now replied on the other forum to a series of questions I had posed re: receivers, and he actually compared a SR5003, SR5004 and Denon 1712 in his home and ended up keeping the 1712. Very similar listening to my wife and I: never real high volume, 86 db speakers. He loves the 1712.

I write this only because the SR5005 at 100W costs $141 more than the 1712 at 90W. If the Denon 1712 were able to drive the Snell or BA VS260, that might swing it to the BA, since the receiver would cost less. At that point, for only $84 more than the Snell/SR5005 would have cost, it becomes a no-brainer: Denon 1712 + BA VS260. What do you think?

90, 100, or 110 watts per channel makes little real difference. It is easy to get distracted by all the various bewildering features on AVRs, and go in circles over which one will be the best for you.

Remember that besides amplifier power, the most important feature is to have pre-amp output jacks so that you have the future option of using the AVR as a pre-amp with a more powerful external amp. Both the Marantz SR5005 and SR6005 have that, but the Denon AVR-1712 does not. That is worth paying for, and for that reason alone, I'd go with either Marantz model.

It seems all these are models sold in the USA and come only with the ability to accept 120 volts. Other models are made for the European market.

 

[venessian]

The K7 is better than the K5 - The K5 will have more bass.
Why people did not respond to my post - I don't know - maybe I
should have talked about the Infinity Primus, or Polk RTI - it is
no big deal to me.
Why no love for the Snell or Boston hi-end - I don't know, marketing
and personal budgets play a big part. As far as reviews, politics will
play a big part. All I know, is that I am very critical and a nit picker -
and these speakers are some of the best I have owned or listened
to - and I have owned 51 different brands of speakers, and listened
to a lot, that I have not bought. I will not say that they are perfect.
You have to decide what is best for you.
As far as receivers, the Marantz is strong and tends to be modest
with their specs - they tend to do better with surround mode power,
over a lot of receivers. Watch out for inflated 6 ohm specs at 1000 khz
it will not be more powerful than the Rms 8 ohms specs. Some will
read 90 watts Rms 8 ohms - then 125 watts 6 ohms @ 1000 khz.
You will not get a true 125 watts.
Buy the best that you can afford - if you choose Boston or Snell. In
reality, the used Snell can bring you lots of joy - Some people will not
be able to pick up, some of the differences between the 2 speakers.
I still think, you may be starting to go around in a circle - sometimes
you just need to make a decision - and if you do take too long, then
somebody will steal the Snells from you. A lot of people read the AVS
and Audioholics forums.

Thanks.
Yes, I understand that about the watts, esp. ignoring the 1kHz claims.

The receiver will be a Marantz I think or the Denon 891. The Denon 1712/1912 are out because they do not have pre-amp outputs, as Swerd pointed out above.

Tes, I want to make a decision very soon. Actually, I feel I'm down to the 2: Snell or BA. I'm fine with either and the Snell are a good price. I know my wife would prefer the BA aesthetically, and that is important to me, as this is really for her career as much as for our mutual enjoyment. I'm just trying to see if I can somhow find a good enough receiver that would allow us to budget the BA.

I'm fine with buying speakers used, as long as I trust the seller.
However, I assume it is a BAD idea to buy a used receiver?

I just really hope we wouldn't need an amp...we can't afford one.

I meant to say, the best receiver that you can afford.

Yes, I understood that. Thanks.

 

[zieglj01]

Snell also used Vifa drivers

 

[zieglj01]

However, I assume it is a BAD idea to buy a used receiver?

No, I bought a refurbish Marantz SR6003 from AC4L - it worked out good.
A lot of people have bought from them. The Yamaha A800 is still a good
option also. You will have to decide which receiver speaker set up, you
would prefer - I do not use them.

 

[venessian]

As far as I know, Snell always made use of SEAS drivers, which were and are among the best drivers made. The difference between 6½" and 5¼" drivers make for different cabinet size choices, bass performance, and upper midrange performance. Both sizes can make very good 2-way speakers.

Snell is now out of business, and prior to that, it was no longer an independent company. Their owners had different marketing priorities. Audio forums and the press are all about today's new choices. That does not make the Snell K5 speaker a bad choice for you.

That's good to know, re: the SEAS. Thanks.

zeiglj01 has heard Snells and Boston Acoustics and can speak from experience.

Yes, he has been very kind (as have you and others) in replying and teaching me things. I trust his recommendations.

90, 100, or 110 watts per channel makes little real difference. It is easy to get distracted by all the various bewildering features on AVRs, and go in circles over which one will be the best for you.

It sure is!!!

Remember that besides amplifier power, the most important feature is to have pre-amp output jacks so that you have the future option of using the AVR as a pre-amp with a more powerful external amp. Both the Marantz SR5005 and SR6005 have that, but the Denon AVR-1712 does not. That is worth paying for, and for that reason alone, I'd go with either Marantz model.

Got it, thanks. Neither does the 1912, so it's Marantz or Denon 891.

I'm just worried about this amp issue, because if we need one we would have to forgo a sub, as we can't afford both.

It seems all these are models sold in the USA and come only with the ability to accept 120 volts. Other models are made for the European market.

Yes, I'm going to call Marantz tomorrow. I hope a US model will work with the good converter we have, because I looked yesterday via Google Italy and the prices on these things are MUCH higher than here and one then has to add 20% VAT!

 

[venessian]

No, I bought a refurbish Marantz SR6003 from AC4L - it worked out good.
A lot of people have bought from them. The Yamaha A800 is still a good
option also. You will have to decide which receiver speaker set up, you
would prefer - I do not use them.

No, I meant actually used. I'm fine with buying refurb from A4L, etc. I think refurb is fine since it has been re-worked at the factory and comes with a warranty. In fact, I think with refurb one is less likely to get a "lemon".

But a used receiver....I'm not sure about that.

Yes, I know your stance on room EQ, but you're far more experienced and have better equipment than I. So, since anything we get will have EQ I have decided to limit it to Audyssey. So no Yamaha.

See, with that A800 rec, you're sending me in circles!

 

[zieglj01]

See, with that A800 rec, you're sending me in circles!

OK, I will not reccomend ______________ and ________________

 

[venessian]

OK, I will not reccomend ______________ and ________________

I truly appreciate all your recommendations. It's just that by limiting to Audyssey I can limit my options, which is good.

 

[zieglj01]

I truly appreciate all your recommendations. It's just that by limiting to Audyssey I can limit my options, which is good.

That I understand.

 

[venessian]

Is there a real difference between HDMI 1.3a and 1.4a? Does one need 1.4a?

Also, if a receiver has only 1 pre-amp output (sub) an amp cannot be connected if a sub is connected, correct?
What if the receiver has 2 pre-amp outputs (sub x 2)? Then is it OK?

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm going to go back to square one.

Get a receiver in Europe. Your wife will almost certainly want to listen to FM radio. The analog FM has a different equalization time constant than the US and a US receiver will not sound right in Europe playing FM.

Europe does not use the iBuiquity IBOC digital radio system, it uses the much better DAB system. So American HD radio facility is useless in Europe.

Get a receiver that has pre outs so you can add an external amp as funds permit.

The next issue is speakers. You want to play opera, which I can assure you makes the highest demand on speakers.

So you need speakers that will reproduce the human voice very well.

Opera makes huge demands on dynamic range, so you need speakers that can deliver the goods, with low distortion and no thermal compression.

Now this can be done with small speakers.

For your budget I would recommend the ATC SCM 7

Don't be fooled by its small size. This little gem plays clear, loud and accurately. For the human voice it is outstanding.

It can be purchased in the UK for 500 GBP per pair. I believe it is handled in Italy by Linn. However the UK and Italy are in the EU and so you can easily purchase from the UK. It is a big seller in the UK. The owner and founder is ATC, Billy Woodman, uses a pair of these in his home, even though ATC is renowned for large monitor speakers through out the world.

Mr Woodman uses them with no sub, but I would use them with a good sub, those does not ooze a gooey high Q bass all over the program.

With a good sub and SCM 7s with the crossover set in the 80 to 90 Hz range you will have a superb system. A far better system then most costing over 10 tomes or more as much. I'm very familiar with these speakers as my brother in law has owned a set for some time. They are absolutely incredible. They can be had in the US for $1000 per pair and with every last penny.

As funds permit I would add an amp in the 250 to 300 watt class.

I have just reported on a visit to ATC speakers.

 

[venessian]

I'm going to go back to square one.

Get a receiver in Europe. Your wife will almost certainly want to listen to FM radio. The analog FM has a different equalization time constant than the US and a US receiver will not sound right in Europe playing FM.

Europe does not use the iBuiquity IBOC digital radio system, it uses the much better DAB system. So American HD radio facility is useless in Europe.]

Thanks, I didn't realize that. But is that a new thing?
My mother, who used to live in the same apartment we live in, had a small Sony CD/radio combo that I bought for her here in the US. Connected to a converter; it worked perfectly fine on FM, which she listened to constantly.

More recently, a few years ago, I gave my wife (when she was my girlfriend) a low-level Yamaha receiver, which I bought in the US. Again, it worked perfectly well on all FM stations. No problem at all.

I don't know about HD radio, though.

Get a receiver that has pre outs so you can add an external amp as funds permit.

The next issue is speakers. You want to play opera, which I can assure you makes the highest demand on speakers.

So you need speakers that will reproduce the human voice very well.

Opera makes huge demands on dynamic range, so you need speakers that can deliver the goods, with low distortion and no thermal compression.

Now this can be done with small speakers.

For your budget I would recommend the ATC SCM 7

Don't be fooled by its small size. This little gem plays clear, loud and accurately. For the human voice it is outstanding.

It can be purchased in the UK for 500 GBP per pair. I believe it is handled in Italy by Linn. However the UK and Italy are in the EU and so you can easily purchase from the UK. It is a big seller in the UK. The owner and founder is ATC, Billy Woodman, uses a pair of these in his home, even though ATC is renowned for large monitor speakers through out the world.

Mr Woodman uses them with no sub, but I would use them with a good sub, those does not ooze a gooey high Q bass all over the program.

With a good sub and SCM 7s with the crossover set in the 80 to 90 Hz range you will have a superb system. A far better system then most costing over 10 tomes or more as much. I'm very familiar with these speakers as my brother in law has owned a set for some time. They are absolutely incredible. They can be had in the US for $1000 per pair and with every last penny.

As funds permit I would add an amp in the 250 to 300 watt class.

I have just reported on a visit to ATC speakers.

500 GBP is $780. Add 20% VAT to that...$936. We simply cannot afford that, good as those speakers may be.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks, I didn't realize that. But is that a new thing?
My mother, who used to live in the same apartment we live in, had a small Sony CD/radio combo that I bought for her here in the US. Connected to a converter; it worked perfectly fine on FM, which she listened to constantly.

More recently, a few years ago, I gave my wife (when she was my girlfriend) a low-level Yamaha receiver, which I bought in the US. Again, it worked perfectly well on all FM stations. No problem at all.

I don't know about HD radio, though.



500 GBP is $780. Add 20% VAT to that...$936. We simply cannot afford that, good as those speakers may be.

A cheap Sony might have sounded OK on FM, but a rig for critical listening will not. European FM de emphasis is 50 msec, in the US it 75 msec. So an FM tuner section made for the US market, will sound dull and lacking high frequencies in Europe.

I think for what you are trying to do, you need higher quality speakers than are on your list. If the set up is not urgent watch used sites, like eBay and Audiogon.

 

[GranteedEV]

My suggestion is to forgo the $500+ receiver. You can always get a 7.1 AVR in the future when you choose to make the upgrade. For now I'd just get a cheap used 2-channel tuner/preamp type deal if possible, and get a pair of active monitors:

Genelec 8020B | Sweetwater.com (You can get these in Italy too if you search hard enough).

 

[venessian]

A cheap Sony might have sounded OK on FM, but a rig for critical listening will not. European FM de emphasis is 50 msec, in the US it 75 msec. So an FM tuner section made for the US market, will sound dull and lacking high frequencies in Europe.

I think for what you are trying to do, you need higher quality speakers than are on your list. If the set up is not urgent watch used sites, like eBay and Audiogon.

Got it, thanks.

But what we are trying to do is not spend over $1,000, for speakers and a receiver. I realize we could spend more, much more, but we simply can't.

Sure eBay/Audiogon finds would be great...but I have no idea what we're looking for anymore. I think I need to spend more time in real stores, here and over Christmas in Italy.

 

[venessian]

My suggestion is to forgo the $500+ receiver. You can always get a 7.1 AVR in the future when you choose to make the upgrade. For now I'd just get a cheap used 2-channel tuner/preamp type deal if possible, and get a pair of active monitors:

Genelec 8020B | Sweetwater.com (You can get these in Italy too if you search hard enough).

I was thinking exactly that last night: why am I looking at 7.1 avrs when we will NEVER have 7.1 (5.1 max and probably not even that)?

So, I agree: I need to focus on a different receiver or receiver/amp, something for only 2 speakers + sub/CDs/DVDs.

Sorry, those Genelec may be the greatest speakers on earth, I don't know, but the aesthetics....

 

[zieglj01]

Here is the Harman Kardon 3490 stereo receiver manuel - in Italian
just for you.
http://eu.harmankardon.com/tl_files/catalog//harman-kardon/Home/Manuals/Stereo Receivers/HK 3390, 3490/Owners Manual - HK 3390, HK 3490 (Italian).pdf

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK 3490