New receiver or new power amp?

[Seth=L]

Not trying to offend. But when you state that most speakers can't handle 200W, I had to say something

You think that most speakers can handle 200 watts RMS on the entire spectrum?

I know my speakers couldn't handle that amount of power continuously. You would need a pretty chunky pair of speakers to handle that kind of power.

 

[Seth=L]

So at 200WPC, about 50W goes to the mid/high. At 50W continuous and 200W peak into a typical 89 dB sensitivity speaker would sound pretty loud for most people. I can't see why a $10,000 Krell amp would sound much different than a $6,000 McIntosh driving a pair of say Paradigm S8 or a pair of B&W803.

On the other hand, last weekend I listened to a little live brass band playing Christmas songs and I definitely didn't need any blind test to know it sounded very different than the best and most expensive hi fi system I have ever heard. So I wonder if your goal is to upgrade your 2 channel system in order to get it as close to "live" quality as possible, but you only have $10,000 to spend, would you spend it on speakers, amps, or source equipment/media, aside from the room acoustic stuff. I know this is off the topic but I am too lazy to start a new thread. The OP doesn't seem to mind anyway, assuming he is still watching.

Honestly, I would rather have the McIntosh if I could get either for free and I wasn't allowed to sell them.

 

[PENG]

Honestly, I would rather have the McIntosh if I could get either for free and I wasn't allowed to sell them.

But at that level of gear, do you think you can still tell them apart, unsighted (I don't want to use the word "blind", people may get upset), using sub $10K speakers such as the S8, B&W803,802. I tried, and I couldn't, not even when sighted.

 

[Seth=L]

But at this level of gear, do you think you can tell them apart, unsighted (I don't want to use the word "blind", people may get upset).

I don't think that you could upset the "Blind". To my knowledge they haven't invented a brail monitor, though I could be mistaken.

And of course it depends on which McIntosh you are talking about. If it is a hybrid it will sound very different.

I have listened to comparable receivers (sony es, denon, and yamaha) all in the same room. I couldn't tell the difference. My dad said the Sony didn't sound as good. He must have had his eyes open.

Now I can honestly say I hear differences in certain amplifiers I have had in my home. I had one high-end Onkyo receiver and a lower end. I couldn't tell a difference in sound or power. I had a Kenwood receiver that had IC type transistors, it sounded OK, but not as good as the Onkyos. I had a Sony, had problems with distortion in surround sound. I had a Kenwood amplifier, it was good but once I got the Carver it was out the window. The Carver was a real power house. I had discrete modules, large caps (don't know the value), and an oversized power supply. I kicked the Kenwood's @ss, bad. I kicked everthing I had right in its @ss.

 

[no. 5]

at that level of gear, who cares?! just give me the one that looks best in my living room.

 

[zumbo]

You think that most speakers can handle 200 watts RMS on the entire spectrum?

I thought you were giving a logical statement. The above statement is not real world.

I know my speakers couldn't handle that amount of power continuously. You would need a pretty chunky pair of speakers to handle that kind of power.

LOL!

 

[Seth=L]

Those are chunky speakers, easily 200 watts RMS 20hz-20Khz.

 

[PENG]

My dad said the Sony didn't sound as good. He must have had his eyes open.

That's really funny!
No Mc hybrid or tube. Solid state 6K Mc vs 10K Krell, that's the rule. Anyway, I take it you won't dare betting money on this unsighted test.

That's all I want to know, thanks.

 

[Nuglets]

Stop listening to rap! Problem solved.

Pretty funny and I definitely expected a remark from somebody about that. But really, aside from the fact that a small part of what I listen to is crap in most people's opinion, my point is still rather valid. In fact the other day in my car I was listening to some Pink Floyd on the radio and when that song was over I changed the station to some new age(crap) rock and roll and I had to boost the bass to hear any drums or bass guitar. Then I went back to classic rock and the bass was overwhelming. Yeah rap music is generally inappropriate and many would consider it offensive but it can really sound good on a nice stereo especially if everyone else in your age group(college) enjoys it. Besides name some popular new rock bands that have any talent. Pretty tough isn't it?

 

[highfihoney]

So at 200WPC, about 50W goes to the mid/high. At 50W continuous and 200W peak into a typical 89 dB sensitivity speaker would sound pretty loud for most people. I can't see why a $10,000 Krell amp would sound much different than a $6,000 McIntosh driving a pair of say Paradigm S8 or a pair of B&W803.

On the other hand, last weekend I listened to a little live brass band playing Christmas songs and I definitely didn't need any blind test to know it sounded very different than the best and most expensive hi fi system I have ever heard. So I wonder if your goal is to upgrade your 2 channel system in order to get it as close to "live" quality as possible, but you only have $10,000 to spend, would you spend it on speakers, amps, or source equipment/media, aside from the room acoustic stuff. I know this is off the topic but I am too lazy to start a new thread. The OP doesn't seem to mind anyway, assuming he is still watching.

Hi peng,to tell the truth i really dont have goals with my systems anymore i just like to have fun with audio & to hear different set ups in my house,its fun for me to try different gear & hear how a system sounds with different speakers.

If i only had 10k to spend i guess that i would be spending more on amplification,i only by used & its easier to find great speakers at stupidly low prices than it is amps,i spent $2,500 on my speakers & $8,500 on the monoblocks,in both cases the sellers were highly motivated to sell & i made out like a bandit.

Live sound,no way,im not a big fan of live sound,its nice to see a band live but if my systems sounded like live music i would not be happy,most live music is not put together with much thought other than loudness.

I have compared Krell against Mcintosh in 2 of my systems namely a krell ksa 150 that i really like against several different mac amps i have,both the Krell & Mac amps have different strong points with the krell having the strongest bass out of any amp ive owened.

Your right about 50 watts being loud for most people including myself but to kick the system up a few notches it takes an obscene amount of wattage.

 

[no. 5]

In fact the other day in my car I was listening to some Pink Floyd on the radio and when that song was over I changed the station to some new age(crap) rock and roll and I had to boost the bass to hear any drums or bass guitar. Then I went back to classic rock and the bass was overwhelming.

that was probably the stations fault; there is a station out of the city of Green Bay that comes in where I live, and, I swear that thay have the HF on their EQ at least 6dB higher then the rest of ferquency band, no matter what equipment I listen to that station on, every song is terribly silibent.

 

[PENG]

Live sound,no way,im not a big fan of live sound,its nice to see a band live but if my systems sounded like live music i would not be happy,most live music is not put together with much thought other than loudness.

So we have different goals. I would invest in components that give the best bang for the bucks in terms of allowing my system to sound as much like "live" as possible. That being said, I don't prefer listening to those live music in shopping malls but I sure prefer listening to symphonies, and concertos in a concert hall than to my hi fi system.

For me, I would spend my first free 10K on a pair of 802D, or a 803D plus a Mc preamp, and then start dreaming about trading in my Bryston for a 500WX2 Krell, Classe or equivalent.

 

[RickT]

Wrong again!

Sound quality is in the pre-amp section of the receiver. If the same receiver in question is used as the pre-amp for the added amp, it will sound exactly the same.

Receiver ? ... Oh yeah ... Lots of SQ in there ...

As is typically the case ... Those that don't know, don't know, what they don't know ...

 

[mtrycrafts]

Receiver ? ... Oh yeah ... Lots of SQ in there ...

As is typically the case ... Those that don't know, don't know, what they don't know ...

And those who think they know, really think they know, right?
But, evidence is convincing.

 

[Nick250]

Receiver ? ... Oh yeah ... Lots of SQ in there ...
As is typically the case ... Those that don't know, don't know, what they don't know ...

I have found that the "snobby know it all with no supporting evidence" strategy poor in convincing anyone of one's position, but maybe I am wrong and I am under appreciating it's effectiveness.

Nick

 

[Nuglets]

I have found that the "snobby know it all with no supporting evidence" strategy poor in convincing anyone of one's position, but maybe I am wrong and I am under appreciating it's effectiveness.

Nick

I know, he's acting like everyone that says most well built amp's are transparent have never used different amplifier's before. Sorry RickT, but most of us have had the opportunity to try out some different equipment and to be completely honest with you I was quite disappointed when I got my new amp for $600 a few years back and didn't notice any difference in the sound. But then I realized how much louder it would go without any noticeable distortion so it was well worth it. By the way, I was using an old Denon with 80 W/ch and upgraded to my current 300 W/ch so you can probably imagine how I felt when I was expecting the sound quality to be dramatically different. But now that I've learned so much from this forum I understand the difference in power and what it actually amounts to.

 

[Nuglets]

that was probably the stations fault; there is a station out of the city of Green Bay that comes in where I live, and, I swear that thay have the HF on their EQ at least 6dB higher then the rest of ferquency band, no matter what equipment I listen to that station on, every song is terribly silibent.

It's a definite possibility, but like I said before I experience this with many of my cd's. Not only my rap cd's either, that was just an easy way to describe the issue with difference's in bass for obvious reason's.

 

[highfihoney]

I don't prefer listening to those live music in shopping malls but I sure prefer listening to symphonies, and concertos in a concert hall than to my hi fi system.

If i had a choice between seeing & hearing a peice of music being performed live certianly i would chose the peice over my or any hifi rig but comparing an orchestra to a live amplified concert is not a fair comparison,were talking about 2 different types of live music,i was speaking of amplified live music which is mostly garbage for sq & that is not the sound im striving for.

I hope you dont think im delusional about my rig being able to compete with the likes of great orchestras or ensambles because it cant & never will but it's sq will best any amplified live event ive ever heard.

 

[PENG]

I don't know why either Peng. Maybe it's the difference in the quality of the power supplied by first the Parasound 1500A & now Sunfire vs the quality of the power supplied by the Denon. Oh yeah it was just the 2 front channels.

It surely has an intelligently designed power supply. I read the user's manual for the Cinema Grand 7. It seems like a very well design amp, light weight yet extremely powerful. It has a unique feature, a current source output that apparently will give a tube like sound. Have you tried that yet? Does yours have that Joules meter on the front panel? If it does, you can see how many joules your amp is consuming at any moment. That's is a lovely feature, great looking too, just like a McIntosh.

I think I am going to check out one of their Signature 600~2 stereo amplifier before settling on the much more expensive Krell or Classe.

 

[wire]

Thanks Wire. LOL I agree with you & congrats on the SP3! See it all works out in the end!

Thanks cfrizz
Love the sp3 sound .
You ever think about upgrading to a Sunfire III Processor or higher . I hear from the Carver forum , the new digital hologram is outstanding .
I run Sonic Holigram on 2 of my systems and SDA on the other .