New DIY MTM Towers designed by Dennis Murphy and Paul Kittinger

[FingerlessHackWoodworker]

Well, here are the latest photos. It definitely goes much more slowly-- as usual

Here is my thought on the lower braces; this is the template to be used to router out the braces:

I'll continue doing the realtor thing, and this is the cab top (no glue, just a dry run)

Here is the front view:

Joints are really tight, dimensions dead on, and all joining faces are surprisingly square. Got to see how to purchase the drivers and crossover components. Probably will have to spread out purchase over several months Hopefully, tomorrow I will be able to successfully use the brace template to knock-out the braces.

 

[David LR]

Dave, what did the kit from Meniscus contain?

Well, if I remember right, there are two versions, a minimalist version containing only the essentials (drivers & crossover parts basically) and the full deal which contained drivers, crossover parts, wiring, mounting hardware, binding posts & port tubes. I chose the full deal version. The current kit offering says it also has dacron stuffing which wasn't offered with mine(4 years ago.) Almost forgot, the most important part, it come with a handful of hard candy ! Nice touch I think ! Of course, probably doesn't come with the minimalist order.

 

[FingerlessHackWoodworker]

Well, if I remember right, there are two versions, a minimalist version containing only the essentials (drivers & crossover parts basically) and the full deal which contained drivers, crossover parts, wiring, mounting hardware, binding posts & port tubes. I chose the full deal version. The current kit offering says it also has dacron stuffing which wasn't offered with mine(4 years ago.) Almost forgot, the most important part, it come with a handful of hard candy ! Nice touch I think ! Of course, probably doesn't come with the minimalist order.

Thanks Dave!

 

[Swerd]

@FingerlessHackWoodworker– Nice looking build so far .

I'm a little late with this answer, but it never hurts to post some links

ER18 MTM with Dome Tweeter

ER18 MTM with Ribbon Tweeter

 

[FingerlessHackWoodworker]

@FingerlessHackWoodworker– Nice looking build so far .

I'm a little late with this answer, but it never hurts to post some links

ER18 MTM with Dome Tweeter

ER18 MTM with Ribbon Tweeter

Swerd, thanks! Perfect timing.

I will need to buy the pieces individually and hope cost is same as kit. I can't afford that big of cash-chunk at once; I will have to spread it out. Probably will buy one tweeter and one bass/mid. That will allow me to continue building the cabs-- figure out hole dimensions etc..

I noticed Madisound seems to have the mid and ribbon speakers about $3 less than Meniscus. Anyone else noticed this?

Madisound also has this port:

PSP 4FLARE Outer Flare (PSP-4OFH)​

,will this work?

 

[FingerlessHackWoodworker]

Well here are the 8 braces. I still need to round them off with a router and will have to cut four of them to fit behind the drivers. Doing so should not be a big deal.

This is the simple jig used to hold the brace-template above the work-piece. I used a router and spiral up bit. Was not happy at all with the performance of the bit cutting through MDF-- was real pain with all the MDF dust not moving away from cut zone. The dust would pack into the cut grooves. I am ashamed to admit I forgot to cut most of the material away with a jig saw. Once I remembered to do so, things went a thousand times more smoothly while routing final cut-outs.

 

[roadrune]

Swerd, thanks! Perfect timing.

I will need to buy the pieces individually and hope cost is same as kit. I can't afford that big of cash-chunk at once; I will have to spread it out. Probably will buy one tweeter and one bass/mid. That will allow me to continue building the cabs-- figure out hole dimensions etc..

I noticed Madisound seems to have the mid and ribbon speakers about $3 less than Meniscus. Anyone else noticed this?

Madisound also has this port:

PSP 4FLARE Outer Flare (PSP-4OFH)​

,will this work?

You can safely cut the driver holes according to the plans, fits perfect atleast the metric measures for ribbon tweeter and woofers.

 

[roadrune]

Mind=blown.

 

[Swerd]

Your woodworking looks excellent. It is said that the mark of a good carpenter is how he finishes the inside of a closet. Even though those internal braces will be inside the speaker cabs, they are nice work.

I will need to buy the pieces individually and hope cost is same as kit. I can't afford that big of cash-chunk at once; I will have to spread it out. Probably will buy one tweeter and one bass/mid. That will allow me to continue building the cabs-- figure out hole dimensions etc..

I noticed Madisound seems to have the mid and ribbon speakers about $3 less than Meniscus. Anyone else noticed this?

As long as you're getting the right part, go for the best price. I think the Meniscus Audio kit may have a better price than all the parts if purchased separately.

Madisound also has this port:

PSP 4FLARE Outer Flare (PSP-4OFH)​

,will this work?

That one is too large, 4" diameter. The design calls for a 3" diameter port (see post #2 in this thread).

• If you get a non-flared tube, it should be 2¾" long.
• If flared on the outer end, make it 3¼" long.
• If flared on both ends make it 3¾" long.

They all will get the job done.

 

[Swerd]

View attachment 18272

Mind=blown.

Welcome back. Are you happy with your DIY speakers ?

 

[roadrune]

Welcome back. Are you happy with your DIY speakers ?

Well, to tell you the truth i was really happy when i posted my last post, after listening to 5-6 songs, but then i put on an old favorite (Korn's Oildale) and then i thought; wait a minute, somethings wrong here, this song should have loads of deep bass and punch, but it was simply not there...

So i cranked up Youtube and found som test tones, and there it was: from 65-70'ish hZ it was dam near silence, the same With 130-140'ish... So i remembered Reading something about standing soundwaves earlier, but did not know what excactly it was, but Google can always help, so after some theory i found out that i needed to move the speakers, due to the room further from the wall was out of the question, so it would have to be closer.
So after a couple of hours of moving around and repeating the test tones i ended up about 4" from the wall, and have moved the cansallation to about 90hZ, alot better but not Perfect...

This is not be the room the speakers should be in permanently, so i wont bother With any more moving...

However i am pleased With the sound on most Music, but some songs suffer from this, hope it gets better when they move Down to the basement.

 

[roadrune]

Ok, so after a decent night of sleep, and getting the kids and wife out the doors, i put on Zeppelins Celebration Day on bluray, and i have say; i take it back, i take it all back... WOW just WOW, what an amazing bass (get the wordplay? )

For those familiar with the recording: Since i've been loving you have never ever sounded better to my ears, and this one have insane bass compared to the studio version.
For those NOT familiar with the recording: shame on you check it out!

Anyway i listened to a lot of different music throughout the day, and i am seriously impressed with them.

I guess it was just the disapointment from that one song, followed by the audible drops from the testones talking yesterday.

Any tips to measuring software to get as good responce as possible in my room?

I have Iphone and a laptop, i also have a semi professional stereo mic, but to use this with either i have to get a adapter which i can not find in Norway (minjack mic/speaker splitter) my non-educated guess is that i can put some laquer on the "ground" part of my three pole jack to fool the computer to think it's a foure pole jack, but i am not shure if it would work...?

 

[Swerd]

Ok, so after a decent night of sleep, and getting the kids and wife out the doors, i put on Zeppelins Celebration Day on bluray, and i have say; i take it back, i take it all back... WOW just WOW, what an amazing bass (get the wordplay? )…

Anyway i listened to a lot of different music throughout the day, and i am seriously impressed with them.

I've always found that my first impressions of any speaker depend heavily on what speakers I had been used to listening with. What were your previous speakers?

I'll guess they might have exaggerated the bass more than the ER18 MTMs do. Many people get used to hearing the upper bass/lower midrange muddiness caused by exaggerated bass. And when they first hear a speaker that doesn't do that, they interpret that as a lack of bass.

Keep listening to all your music that you know well. You will be frequently surprised .

Any tips to measuring software to get as good responce as possible in my room?

Measuring loudspeaker response is difficult without the right software and experience. The only software I know of that does this well is called LspCAD, and the last time I looked, it was expensive. It also takes time to learn to use it well.

There is some free software called Room Equalization Wizard (REW) available. If used properly, it can help equalize uneven bass response that occurs due to reflections between subwoofers and floors, ceiling, and walls. But I DO NOT recommend using REW to measure your speakers' frequency response. It cannot distinguish between the sound your speakers produce, and the reflections from the floor, ceiling and walls of your room. LspCAD can do this. Many people try using REW for this and get hopelessly confused with their results.

As you are learning, bass response, below roughly 250 Hz, varies greatly depending on room dimensions and the speakers' location. There are no simple solutions to this, other than frequently moving the speakers to different locations, and listening.

 

[roadrune]

I've always found that my first impressions of any speaker depend heavily on what speakers I had been used to listening with. What were your previous speakers?

I'll guess they might have exaggerated the bass more than the ER18 MTMs do. Many people get used to hearing the upper bass/lower midrange muddiness caused by exaggerated bass. And when they first hear a speaker that doesn't do that, they interpret that as a lack of bass.

Keep listening to all your music that you know well. You will be frequently surprised .
Measuring loudspeaker response is difficult without the right software and experience. The only software I know of that does this well is called LspCAD, and the last time I looked, it was expensive. It also takes time to learn to use it well.

There is some free software called Room Equalization Wizard (REW) available. If used properly, it can help equalize uneven bass response that occurs due to reflections between subwoofers and floors, ceiling, and walls. But I DO NOT recommend using REW to measure your speakers' frequency response. It cannot distinguish between the sound your speakers produce, and the reflections from the floor, ceiling and walls of your room. LspCAD can do this. Many people try using REW for this and get hopelessly confused with their results.

As you are learning, bass response, below roughly 250 Hz, varies greatly depending on room dimensions and the speakers' location. There are no simple solutions to this, other than frequently moving the speakers to different locations, and listening.

My previous speakers is B&W 683s2, so exaggerated bass is not an issue from those

I did the mistake of not listening to those before the er18's. When offshore i use B&W P7, so using those for two weeks may have left me somewhat biased.

 

[roadrune]

Just thinking: could grilles help with cancelation? The frame would make them more directional in my head?

 

[Swerd]

My previous speakers is B&W 683s2, so exaggerated bass is not an issue from those

I haven't heard that B&W model, but I could find a review with some measurments, http://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-wilkins-683-s2-loudspeaker-measurements#WoyurIM4ZGVbOGSe.97

This graph (figure 4 from the review) suggests to me that these speakers do have an exaggerated bass. See the hump centered around 100 Hz. I cannot be certain from graphs like this, but it is commonly caused by deliberately designing (tuning) a cabinet to elevate the bass response more than the drivers are capable of doing.

This elevated bass response is known to cause the bass drivers to 'ring' or resonate. Instead beginning and ending rapidly, a single bass tone can go on and on, creating a muddy sound.

I've discussed this in detail the past – see post #5
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/frequency-response-graphs.92881/#post-1062403

 

[Swerd]

Just thinking: could grilles help with cancelation? The frame would make them more directional in my head?

No, grills have only a small effect at much higher frequencies.

 

[roadrune]

My impression of the 683's is very little bass, and clean sound.

 

[Researcher]

I will need to buy the pieces individually and hope cost is same as kit. I can't afford that big of cash-chunk at once; I will have to spread it out.

Hello FingerlessHackWoodworker hope you're fine, just my 2 cents: The problem is the cost won't be the same, kits are less expensive because you're buying a bunch of items at once from a specific store, so they give a (tiny but sometimes bigger) discount. Plus you're only paying shipping once for your order.

If you buy the components separately you'll have a hard time matching the kit price, mainly because S&H rates increase the cost of everything but it doesn't end there, just an example:

I did an experiment today, the Trix Trix MTM only components kit sells for $149.80 at Parts Express, if you add those same components separately in your cart you'll have to pay $209.36, they offer free shipping above $100 so that's not a factor in this case but a difference of $60 bucks for getting the same items from the same store it's quite big.

In the end you'll be spending more buying part by part than buying a kit. Anyway, take it as an advice. I hope you the best with your build, looking good so far, keep posting!

 

[Swerd]

My impression of the 683's is very little bass, and clean sound.

You know the 683s well, and I've not heard them. So I'll go with what you say.

It would be interesting if you could listen to the ER18 MTMs long enough to get used to them, about a month, and then listen to the 683s, if you still have them. Whenever I did that in the past (with other speakers) it always surprised me.