frankf

frankf

Junior Audioholic
this is fun

rollinrocker said:
By the way Frank, i run a similar setup, using a denon 3803 rec. as a processor. The denon is a fine unit on its own, but adding a rotel rmb-1095 amp has made MY system SOUND better. Isnt that what this hobby is all about?
reading things like this from guys like you make my day. i am the kind of audioholic that always is looking to make things better. reasonable in cost to effect. do you have a designated room, and what are your room ascoutics like? i am curious.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
frankf said:
reading things like this from guys like you make my day. i am the kind of audioholic that always is looking to make things better. reasonable in cost to effect. do you have a designated room, and what are your room ascoutics like? i am curious.
.....Frank, upgrade some of your speakers if you wish, and sure, that will make a difference....but....I don't care if you live in a treehouse, you want serious RMS watts on your front three channels at least.....

.....Mtry's not telling the whole story.....he tried a slave amp on his clock-radio awhile back....the thing blew up after emitting thick black smoke for 10 minutes....Mtry was told to soak the walls for three days with a certain type of lead-based solvent, and the black smoke on the walls might come off....Mtry was heard to comment his clock-radio sounded much better for the 10 minute smoking period....case closed.....would I lie?......
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....you guys in the hole with Mtry don't understand the concepts here....you continue to defend your receivers, and that ain't where it's at....we're not talking louder, we're talking cleaner....try serious watts RMS on the front three, or continue to walk on in darkness....let's all take note....no one, has taken me up on the shipping back on slave power.....
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
frankf said:
you are right! i just can't understand why i did not see this problem before>>>or am i looking for one. one thing i intend to do is go this week to a couple of stores that carry my speakers and do some comparing.
thanks
I can only give you some advice on comparing:D Then it is your choice to ignore it or do what you can.

It is critical that levels between speakers or components whichever is compared are accurately matched, or a louder presentation will be judged as better. It would be also good if the identity of the component you are listening to is not known to you when comparing as human bias will influence you in unknown ways. Good luck.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
mulester7 said:
we're not talking louder, we're talking cleaner........

So then, at 90 dB spl your amps will sound different and hopefully better than well designed receivers? Is that what I am to understand??? If so, I and my com padres in that hole would like to see some convincing, credible evidence:D
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
mtrycrafts said:
It is critical that levels between speakers or components whichever is compared are accurately matched, or a louder presentation will be judged as better.
....very good, Mtry, but that is what more power RMS brings...."cleaner" spl's, that can get louder than it was, and still be non-offensive....Mtry, you know down-deep I'm pullin' you out of that hole, Buddy, rejoice, a better day cometh....question....why are lawyers buried at a depth of 12 feet instead of the usual six?....answer....'cause down-deep, they're actually pretty good people.....
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
mulester7 said:
....very good, Mtry, but that is what more power RMS brings...."cleaner" spl's, that can get louder than it was,
mulester7 said:
But we are discussing comparing components fairly. At 90 dB spl, modern, well designed components better be clean, and they are.



Mtry, you know down-deep I'm pullin' you out of that hole, Buddy, rejoice, a better day cometh..

I hope so:D I like more company where you are but, I cannot compromise what is known, or jump out of this hole because there are more up there:D


..question....why are lawyers buried at a depth of 12 feet instead of the usual six?....answer....'cause down-deep, they're actually pretty good people.....

LOL, thanks, that is a good one. Needed that, old buddy:)
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
mtrycrafts said:
[But we are discussing comparing components fairly. At 90 dB spl, modern, well designed components better be clean, and they are.
.....Mtry, the definitive word for the difference could be, "authority".....and, FOR SURE, your favorite junk now sounds more live....
 
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
frankf, I agree completely with Mtry about getting your speaker situation worked out before thinking about a receiver/amp change. About 95% or so of what you hear in your listening room is about speaker choice and room acoustics. The receiver/amp has little effect on things unless you have inefficent speakers and you like to play your music or HT loud. If you so chose you can always experiment with more power after you pick the speakers you like.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
mulester7 said:
.....Mtry, the definitive word for the difference could be, "authority".....and, FOR SURE, your favorite junk now sounds more live....

How can it at 90 dB spl? Same music, same speaker and room. But, one may perceive what you describe. And you know how I feel about perceptions, right :D
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
mtrycrafts said:
How can it at 90 dB spl? Same music, same speaker and room. But, one may perceive what you describe. And you know how I feel about perceptions, right :D
....Mtry, you're fighting this with theoretical opinions and not experience....step up to the plate, big boy....order an amp at least 200 per at 8, that's clean, and I'll pay shipping both directions if you don't want it....what receiver and speakers ya' got?....time to learn, how ya' fixed?....
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Nick250 said:
frankf, I agree completely with Mtry about getting your speaker situation worked out before thinking about a receiver/amp change. About 95% or so of what you hear in your listening room is about speaker choice and room acoustics. The receiver/amp has little effect on things unless you have inefficent speakers and you like to play your music or HT loud. If you so chose you can always experiment with more power after you pick the speakers you like.
.....Nick, with big RMS watts, the word is authority....which holds true in the peaks and throughout.....bold authority....kickin' it right....amps last forever....the clock-radio blew up, but the amp is fine at Mtry's house....big stereo amp....Radio Shack....11 watts a side-solid state....$22.95....warning....Mtry has been observed to talk to those not there, and heard to utter, bah humbug.....just the facts, Ma'am......
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Dan Banquer said:
Yo Mulester 7:
You may want to check out this article from the Audioholics archives on Damping Factor.
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/dampingfactor2.php

BTW: The guy who turned me on to this article also does a fair amount of speaker design.
d.b.
....thanks, Dan....this was my favorite line....

....."However, these data do not support "the assertion often made" for the advantages of extremely high damping factors."

...."the assertion often made".....by guys who actually listen to the stuff and hear things scopes and meters can't test....
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
mulester7 said:
....Mtry, you're fighting this with theoretical opinions and not experience....step up to the plate, big boy....order an amp at least 200 per at 8, that's clean, and I'll pay shipping both directions if you don't want it....what receiver and speakers ya' got?....time to learn, how ya' fixed?....

If it is only theoretical, perhaps there is evidence to support your point of view and not mine? Testimonials is, well, just that:D
You almost pulled me into your gambit about my boombox, LOL:D Good try and thanks for the offer of shipment. If I really needed to do this, I think I could afford it too. Thanks:)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
mulester7 said:
....Mtry has been observed to talk to those not there, and heard to utter, bah humbug.....just the facts, Ma'am......
Oh, you are killing me:D
Is that what you are doing, killing me with laughter??:D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
mulester7 said:
...."the assertion often made".....by guys who actually listen to the stuff and hear things scopes and meters can't test....
That's easy. We are back to those perception issues not supported by facts. Perception may not be reality. Meters don't measure the supernatural events:D
 
I

indcrimdefense

Audioholic
frankf,

having experimented with my system, and after several lengthy demos, adding a quality amp to a system will make a difference, and one that is worthwhile in my opinion. i have zero experience with yamaha receivers, other than a 20 min. listening session w/ the new 2600 this weekend. i have had 4 demo amps in & out of my system this year, as well as various other components, in a search for better sound. my system: denon 2805, klipsch RF-7 front & RF-5 rear, denon 2910 (for SACD & DVDA), cary audio DVD6 (for redbook cd & dvd). adding the cary DVD6 made a marked difference for redbook cd when using analog connections. it's not quite SACD, but for quality recordings its damn close, and while it's not a DVDA player, it also does a great job of playing those as well.

amps in order of preference: 1) cary audio cinema 5, 2) krell showcase 5, 3) B&K ref 125.2, and 4) rotel 1080. have also had a 2+ hour demo session w/ aragon pre/pro & i think a 3000 series amp with a set of RF-7. good, but not as good as the cary audio gear or the krell amp.

adding an amp can be an improvement, but the real improvement in sound quality was dropping the receiver and going to an amp & pre/pro, demo pre/pro i had was a cary cinema 6 and a rotel stereo pre-amp. after hearing the cary amp & pre/pro combo, using my denon receiver as a pre/pro w/ an amp simply does not produce the same sound quality as the cary combo. i really wish my receiver alone sounded that good, so i could quit spending money. but it doesn't, so i continue to search. however, i do like the receiver as a pre/pro using an amp better than the receiver alone, whether using a 2 channel amp to power the fronts & receiver powers the rears of using a multi-channel amp & using receiver as only a pre/pro. it's not a question of sheer volume, but of the quality of sound achieved using an amplifier. this is NOT to say that simply adding an amp will make your system sound better. the denon 2805/rotel 1080 combo did not sound better than the 2805 alone, but this may have been due to an amp that was not broke in. the 2805 paired w/ the B&K amp has a nice sound. best sound quality using receiver as pre/pro was w/ the krell amp, it did sound better than the cary amp w/ the receiver. however, it was not as good as the cary combo of amp & pre/pro.

from experience, find a dealer who is willing to allow you to demo whatever your considering purchasing. take it home & listen, from there your wallet will tell you what to do. if you don't like what you hear, you won't buy it. for real fun, get demos from several dealers at the same time & compare & contrast. this allowed me to quickly eliminate the rotel as an option, as i had the cary equipment at the same time. having 3 demo systems in your home at one time may start to cause the wife or significant other to look at you very funny, but when they could "care less" about your equipment (other than what your spending), and then out of the blue look at you and ask for you to go back to the other system because it sounded better, then your getting somewhere. i have also found that friends who could care less about stereo/home theater to be quite useful when they look at you and say "why does this not sound as good as what was on a couple of minutes ago." almost all of time i agreed with their opinions. different audio components can sound different from one another, even at the same power ratings, or whatever other specifications you want to look at. unless your much wealthier than i am, your not going to buy a component that doesn't enhance the sound quality of your system. if you can't hear a difference, or if it actually sounds worse, then don't buy it.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
indcrimdefense said:
however, i do like the receiver as a pre/pro using an amp better than the receiver alone, whether using a 2 channel amp to power the fronts & receiver powers the rears of using a multi-channel amp & using receiver as only a pre/pro. it's not a question of sheer volume, but of the quality of sound achieved using an amplifier
.....good report.....
 
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