Need some advice, thanks

[PENG]

Thank you. If power is not improved with the ROTEL, will it not at least improve sound quality? Since it is a dedicated 2 channel amp?

No, not over something like the RX-A1070 and AVR-X3400H that you are considering, but if you want to be sure, go with the A2070, AVR-X4400H, or SR7012.

 

[RichB]

As I mentioned in my AVR-X3400H and X4400H thread, I have compared them with my separate systems that I doubt any Rotel integrated can compare in terms of specs and build quality. To me there was no difference in sound quality, and I plotted some FR graphs simply using REW and found practically no difference in FR, impulse response, distortions etc.

You and I , and I guess @ADTG, @HD, @Verdinut etc., have all been there, done that and then found out after spending tons of money, separates in many cases don't really improve sound quality over mid to mid high end receivers, though they do usually offer better build quality, simplicity and Placebo induced audio benefits for two channel music listening. To be fair, there are also very credible members such as @RichB, @Irvrobinson who will tell you different stories, they likely do have more discerning hearing ability. I have to admit also, while I enjoy my cheap AVRs for music listening, I don't have regrets on having purchased my separate components either, and I am keeping my integrated AVP, premaps and amps,though they do just sit idling most of the time....

AVR suitability discussions should include the speakers load, room size and listening levels.
I hooked up and Onkyo 100 WPC to my Salon2's and played it a low to moderate levels and was not impressed. Admittedly, this not scientific.

Amps usually have much better review measurements, sometimes into simulated loads. Specs and reviews do not assess their ability to remain linear with low distortion into reactive loads.

- Rich

 

[JCanada]

Thanks, all of the above advice has been very educational. I am definitely rethinking the purchase of the ROTEL integrated amp. After listening to the various opinions, I think I should start off with the AVR and a separate power amp. That would be good first step. Regarding the theatre bypass, I do not think I would use it. I do not listen to CD's and vinyl records. (Not yet anyway). I primarily use ROKU to stream DEEZER for music.

 

[JCanada]

BTW, I have so many more questions, I do not know where to start. I just began my audiophile journey, but even with my limited knowledge, I know enough that I need to upgrade. I count on everyones help, it has been educational thus far.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

I am concerned that an AV receiver can't deliver enough juice to drive 2 large towers for music listening in 2 channel.

Those speakers are rated at 8 ohms nominal so the Yamaha should be able to handle them. I'm personally a huge fan of Yamaha amps and receivers... been pleased with the few that I've owned.

Now even if you do decide to go the route of 2 sources of amplification, the only safe way to switch between them that doesn't involve disconnecting every time is buying/making a switch such as this:

http://audio-room.net/connecting-2-amplifiers-to-one-set-of-speakers-making-an-ampspeakers-selector-switch/

This is an example of a pre-made switch:

https://www.amazon.com/Niles-Black-FG00003-Amplifier-Selector/dp/B00006HOFR

or

https://www.amazon.com/Technolink-TC-616-Amplifier-Speaker-Comparator/dp/B078WJK3Y3

The amp outputs have to be completely electrically isolated at all times, hence the importance of DPDT switches. Even a momentary connection runs the risk of frying one or both of them. Using a run-of-the-mill A/B speaker selector in reverse will be a costly mistake.

Long story short, buy the receiver and speakers first, and then only if you really can't live with the Yammie in 2-channel mode, get a separate amp and a proper amp selector.

 

[everettT]

Just to be clear, those focals should be considered a solid 4ohm speaker.

 

[PENG]

AVR suitability discussions should include the speakers load, room size and listening levels.
I hooked up and Onkyo 100 WPC to my Salon2's and played it a low to moderate levels and was not impressed. Admittedly, this not scientific.

Amps usually have much better review measurements, sometimes into simulated loads. Specs and reviews do not assess their ability to remain linear with low distortion into reactive loads.

- Rich

Agreed, that's why in my follow up post#20, I suggested that he use an online calculator to find out if he needs 50 W or more. If he does, I suggested he gets an external power amp especially if he is serious about getting the Aria 948.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks, all of the above advice has been very educational. I am definitely rethinking the purchase of the ROTEL integrated amp. After listening to the various opinions, I think I should start off with the AVR and a separate power amp. That would be good first step. Regarding the theatre bypass, I do not think I would use it. I do not listen to CD's and vinyl records. (Not yet anyway). I primarily use ROKU to stream DEEZER for music.

Start with just an avr (with preouts) then determine for your use whether an external amp is needed for the current set of speakers....

 

[JCanada]

Those speakers are rated at 8 ohms nominal so the Yamaha should be able to handle them. I'm personally a huge fan of Yamaha amps and receivers... been pleased with the few that I've owned.

Now even if you do decide to go the route of 2 sources of amplification, the only safe way to switch between them that doesn't involve disconnecting every time is buying/making a switch such as this:

http://audio-room.net/connecting-2-amplifiers-to-one-set-of-speakers-making-an-ampspeakers-selector-switch/

This is an example of a pre-made switch:

https://www.amazon.com/Niles-Black-FG00003-Amplifier-Selector/dp/B00006HOFR

or

https://www.amazon.com/Technolink-TC-616-Amplifier-Speaker-Comparator/dp/B078WJK3Y3

The amp outputs have to be completely electrically isolated at all times, hence the importance of DPDT switches. Even a momentary connection runs the risk of frying one or both of them. Using a run-of-the-mill A/B speaker selector in reverse will be a costly mistake.

Long story short, buy the receiver and speakers first, and then only if you really can't live with the Yammie in 2-channel mode, get a separate amp and a proper amp selector.

Thanks, much appreciated. The amp/speaker selector advice was a big help. I checked out all the links, great info. I will definitely take it into consideration. I will start off with the AVR, and 2 quality towers, and go from there. On that note, can someone give me some advice in the AVR department. I am currently looking at YAMAHA 1070, and the ONKYO RZ810, RZ820. Reason being is cost. Do you recommend an ONKYO 7 channel AVR? Paired with the FOCAL 726's, or Wharfedale Diamond 250's? Again, I am looking at these models because of cost, and the discounts, special sales, etc.. Again, I appreciate all the advice I am given, it is very educational.

 

[JCanada]

When comparing, ranking and rating AVR's, can you knowledgable audiophiles take reliability, quality, and durability into consideration, thank you. I like the info on performance, sound, specs, etc... Can you guys tell me what receivers to stay away from, and what is reliable, what doesn't break down, or breaks down less? In particular, the YAMAHA 7channel, and ONKYO 7 channel AVR's? I selected these brands because of the frequency they go on sale, and my budget.

 

[JCanada]

Start with just an ar (with preouts) then determine for your use whether an external amp is needed for the current set of speakers....

Will do. I will start with the AVR, 2 towers, and go from there. Much appreciated.

 

[Bookmark]

Just for reference the Nominal 8 Ohms of the Arias is correct however the minimum is 2.5 Ohms.

 

[Verdinut]

When comparing, ranking and rating AVR's, can you knowledgable audiophiles take reliability, quality, and durability into consideration, thank you. I like the info on performance, sound, specs, etc... Can you guys tell me what receivers to stay away from, and what is reliable, what doesn't break down, or breaks down less? In particular, the YAMAHA 7channel, and ONKYO 7 channel AVR's? I selected these brands because of the frequency they go on sale, and my budget.

Personally, I would favor the Yamaha as a more reliable product. Make sure that the AVR you purchase has 7.1 channel pre-outs to enable you to add an external amp should it be required at a later date.

 

[snakeeyes]

Basically you will likely end up with an external 2ch amp if you want to get the most out of those 4 ohm towers. It will work on a 140w/ch AVR but will sound a bit better with a 200w/ch external amp. Maybe 15% better.
Did you buy the speakers or just researching them?

 

[killdozzer]

If you allow me to point out an obvious strategic move; the AVR you’re buying one way or the other, so the AVR is certain. Just go ahead and buy the AVR (whichever one you choose from the recommended models) and listen before you go for the AMP. You may even get an AMP for a test run and just see do you really need it. This way no impulsive or misinformed purchase will happen.

Get the AVR and the speakers and do some listening. Later just ad if you feel there’s something about the AMP you like.

 

[JCanada]

Basically you will likely end up with an external 2ch amp if you want to get the most out of those 4 ohm towers. It will work on a 140w/ch AVR but will sound a bit better with a 200w/ch external amp. Maybe 15% better.
Did you buy the speakers or just researching them?

Just researching so far. These forums have been a great help.

 

[PENG]

Paired with the FOCAL 726's, or Wharfedale Diamond 250's? Again, I am looking at these models because of cost, and the discounts, special sales, etc.. Again, I appreciate all the advice I am given, it is very educational.

They will sound different to you, so you are the one to decide. I would consider both requires 4 ohm stable amplifiers. Again at low enough level, just about any mid range receivers can drive them. Are you reluctant to use the spl calculator for some reasons? If you do need an external amp, it is nice to know how powerful an amp you need, unless money is no object.

 

[JCanada]

They will sound different to you, so you are the one to decide. I would consider both requires 4 ohm stable amplifiers. Again at low enough level, just about any mid range receivers can drive them. Are you reluctant to use the spl calculator for some reasons? If you do need an external amp, it is nice to know how powerful an amp you need, unless money is no object.

Money is an object, I do not have the biggest budget. I saw on the SPL calculator that it asks for RMS amp power. The Onkyo 810, 820, and the Yamaha 1070 post power ratings for 2 channels driven, which, in my opinion is a little fudged. (to say the least).

 

[PENG]

Money is an object, I do not have the biggest budget. I saw on the SPL calculator that it asks for RMS amp power. The Onkyo 810, 820, and the Yamaha 1070 post power ratings for 2 channels driven, which, in my opinion is a little fudged. (to say the least).

If you give me your room dimensions, sitting distance, speaker model, and how loud you want to listen to (ref is 85 dB avg, cinema level), I will do the calculations.

 

[JCanada]

They will sound different to you, so you are the one to decide. I would consider both requires 4 ohm stable amplifiers. Again at low enough level, just about any mid range receivers can drive them. Are you reluctant to use the spl calculator for some reasons? If you do need an external amp, it is nice to know how powerful an amp you need, unless money is no object.

Used the calculator by imputing 110 watts as the amp power. It gave me a 107.5 db SPL at listening position. Can you give me some guidance as how I am to translate this info when shopping for an amp and speakers?