Need help with floorspeakers and subwoofer configuration

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Pitman

Audioholic Intern
Hello folks. I bought a definitive technology bp-9040 and also a DN-10 subwoofer from them. I have a yamaha receiver. My question is, what is the configuration for my floorspeakers, small or large? They have builtin 8inch sub/radiators. How about my sub? What is the crossover? 80? 40? My yamaha receiver has a ypao mic and when I used it to automatically measure, it set my floorspeakers to small. Crossover for sub is 40hz. But I noticed that the sub sound weak. I have to put the sub volume to around 90% just to hear it and feel a little bit. So I know something is wrong with the setup that the ypao did automatically. When I did the ypao also, I set the SUB volume to half. And also the floorspeakers sub volumes to half. Can someone help me please? Thank you very much guys.
 
W

Wardog555

Full Audioholic
All speakers to small if you have a seperate subwoofer. And start with 80hz crossover.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
All "large" means is do not use bass management. "Small" means use bass management. I'd also start with an 80hz crossover, but experiment above and below from there, it's generally fine to raise the sub level after using something like YPAO or Audyssey, but don't go below their recommended crossover as that generally means no eq below that point. They have powered woofers, but you'll have to decide how to utilize them if you're going to feed them a sub pre-out (or not), multiple bass output points may help, might be better to use sub alone. Experiment. Not everyone likes the way a setup system like YPAO will aim for flat bass response, many do like to up the sub level, but do it in the avr, not on the sub itself; when an avr says try the midway point on gain for external sub amps, it's simply a guess. Yamaha doesn't have you set levels for sub separately from speakers IIRC, so you might want to do that separately from YPAO with an spl meter. What are the trim levels set by YPAO for your speakers and sub? (before you changed anything)
 
P

Pitman

Audioholic Intern
So even if my BP-9040 speakers have built in 8inch sub, I should still set it to small? I tried this earlier and I noticed that the built in sub didn't have much volume anymore even at almost full. It's like the receiver kind off removed the sub capability of the BP-9040. Is this a good thing? With a stand alone SUB? I guess I'm just trying to figure out if the built in SUB of the speakers will be useless, now that I have the DN-10 Subwoofer.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Try it both ways to see if you have a preference. You may get some cancellations depending on placement of speakers/subs using all of them...that can be beneficial but also may not. The Dn-10 specs I just looked at, it's okay but not what I'd call a true sub either. Might need to experiment with placement of the DN-10 to optimize the whole setup. YPAO may not be the best tool for the job.
 
P

Pitman

Audioholic Intern
Thank you so much! I will experiment with it. I will follow your instructions first to set the crossover to 80hz and start from there. the YPAO set it up to 40hz automatically. Regarding placement, unfortunately my space is limited that I can only put them in front of my living room couch. the left speaker is beside the sub about 8 inches apart, then the center table, then the right speaker.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thank you so much! I will experiment with it. I will follow your instructions first to set the crossover to 80hz and start from there. the YPAO set it up to 40hz automatically. Regarding placement, unfortunately my space is limited that I can only put them in front of my living room couch. the left speaker is beside the sub about 8 inches apart, then the center table, then the right speaker.
What several avrs will do is test for a detected f3 of 40hz as a dividing line between large/small, too....Audyssey has said that's the avr manufacturer overriding their preference to start with small/80hz crossover when subs are involved. Ever just try the sub crawl to see what might be better? https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/crawling-for-bass-subwoofer-placement
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Crossover of 80Hz seems to be a safe bet for most systems, but you can try different XO like 100, 120Hz and see if that improves the sound.

Small vs Large? I also vote Small and let your external sub do the work.
 
P

Pitman

Audioholic Intern
Try it both ways to see if you have a preference. You may get some cancellations depending on placement of speakers/subs using all of them...that can be beneficial but also may not. The Dn-10 specs I just looked at, it's okay but not what I'd call a true sub either. Might need to experiment with placement of the DN-10 to optimize the whole setup. YPAO may not be the best tool for the job.
I should probably stop using the ypao and do it manually like you guys suggested. So what are the main list of things I need to work on? Crossover, small/large speaker, anything else important that I am missing?

Also, after ypao, the SUB volume in the configuration shows as -2.5 DB. is this normal?
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
I didn't read all this, but you may find something here....those aren't really subs in those towers...just a lot of woof woof.


 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
Hello folks. I bought a definitive technology bp-9040 and also a DN-10 subwoofer from them. I have a yamaha receiver. My question is, what is the configuration for my floorspeakers, small or large? They have builtin 8inch sub/radiators. How about my sub? What is the crossover? 80? 40? My yamaha receiver has a ypao mic and when I used it to automatically measure, it set my floorspeakers to small. Crossover for sub is 40hz. But I noticed that the sub sound weak. I have to put the sub volume to around 90% just to hear it and feel a little bit. So I know something is wrong with the setup that the ypao did automatically. When I did the ypao also, I set the SUB volume to half. And also the floorspeakers sub volumes to half. Can someone help me please? Thank you very much guys.
If your stand alone sub isn’t much bigger I’d set fronts to full and later try 80hz see which sounds better. But it seems like a waste of bass to not atleast run your fronts 60hz.
Depends how good it sounds, either way up to you towers with subs I’d definitely use the subs in them if possible . Maybe if you had a 12-15” sub it would be a different story .
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I should probably stop using the ypao and do it manually like you guys suggested. So what are the main list of things I need to work on? Crossover, small/large speaker, anything else important that I am missing?

Also, after ypao, the SUB volume in the configuration shows as -2.5 DB. is this normal?
If you really want to get into it, get a measurement mic and download RoomEQ Wizard (REW).

IIRC YPAO balances speaker settings for level with the sub (whereas in Audyssey sub level is set separately), so normal probably depends more on the whole system than any one result being "normal". You can perhaps experiment with changing gain/volume level on sub and run YPAO several times and see how the resulting settings look....
 
P

Pitman

Audioholic Intern
I didn't read all this, but you may find something here....those aren't really subs in those towers...just a lot of woof woof.


After reading this forum, it seemed like the verdict is to set the speakers to Large. So it's like having 3 subwoofers total. Very interesting.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
After reading this forum, it seemed like the verdict is to set the speakers to Large. So it's like having 3 subwoofers total. Very interesting.
Just keep in mind you're still limited by the least of the subs to a degree. I'd rather add another true sub and use the speakers as small.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
After reading this forum, it seemed like the verdict is to set the speakers to Large. So it's like having 3 subwoofers total. Very interesting.
I would try setting your sub crossover at 40hz....of course room parameters will be the biggest factor.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
The low pass on the sub itself?
On his AVR....those 8's are going to fight that sub...best solution would be to return the towers for bookshelves. (if possible) I see those towers were on sale for almost half price though.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
On his AVR....those 8's are going to fight that sub...best solution would be to return the towers for bookshelves. (if possible) I see those towers were on sale for almost half price though.
When you said sub crossover I wasn't sure what you meant (due LPF of LFE confusion let alone the one on the sub). Hard to know the particular interaction in his room without measuring in any case.
 
P

Pitman

Audioholic Intern
Just keep in mind you're still limited by the least of the subs to a degree. I'd rather add another true sub and use the speakers as small.
Gotcha. So I called DefTech and here's what they advised. Set speakers to SMALL and crossover to 80hz (can go up to 100hz). Then set the subwoofer crossover to 80hz (can go down to 50hz). This is using LFE connection in my subwoofer. Also, the subwoofer has low pass filter knob at the back, she said just leave it at full because the receiver is the one handling it instead. That knob will be bypassed. She sent me an email also for some instructions for my speakers setup. I will attach it here. Hopefully you guys can chime in as to what it says in the 2 ways to set it up.

Screenshot_1.png


Screenshot_2.png
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Gotcha. So I called DefTech and here's what they advised. Set speakers to SMALL and crossover to 80hz (can go up to 100hz). Then set the subwoofer crossover to 80hz (can go down to 50hz). This is using LFE connection in my subwoofer. Also, the subwoofer has crossover knob at the back, she said just leave it at full because the receiver is the one handling the crossover instead. That knob will be bypassed. She sent me an email also for some instructions for my speakers setup. I will attach it here. Hopefully you guys can chime in as to what it says in the 2 ways to set it up.

View attachment 60460

View attachment 60461
Speakers/sub have a single "crossover" in the avr. What sub crossover? Many subs do have an LFE setting for input that bypasses the sub's own low pass filter (very few subs have a crossover at all).
 

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