Need help deciding which TV to buy

[annunaki]

I read this entire thread. The one big glaring error I see in your judgement is that you are basing your picture quality judgments off of the way the tvs are set up in the show room. None of them are calibrated and/or are on an even playing field. Only when televisons are calibrated to an ntsc standard for brightness, contrast, color, tint, and shrpness do their true strenghths and weaknesses show. In the current Home Theater Magazine they review the XBR4 along with a Samsung unit (unsure of the model), a Toshiba, and a Phillips. The Toshiba tested best for performance out of the group but the reviewer stated he would not purchase any of the sets. Though that is personal preference I agree. I have not seen an LCD that out does a good plasma (Panasonic & Pioneer) in picture quality or black level.

In the same issue they review the new Pioneer Elite Kuro Plasma (1080p) and it had some of the best black levels of any set ever reviewed regardless of orientation (CRT, LCD, Plasma, DLP, etc.). The same set can be had in a 720p version for about $3,500 and if you are sitting farther than 6.5-8 feet away the 1080p won't matter anyway. Although in your instance, using it as a computer monitor you would most likely want the 1080p. That being the case, I would do the Panasonic 50" 1080p display with the matte fiish screen. It will give you better performace overall for movies and with their high resistance to burn in should have no issues for computer use. Not to mention their warranty and out of warranty service procedures are top notch should they ever be needed.

You should be well suited in waiting for Black Friday specials as there should be some good ones from what I hear.

 

[Kilim]

I read this entire thread. The one big glaring error I see in your judgement is that you are basing your picture quality judgments off of the way the tvs are set up in the show room. None of them are calibrated and/or are on an even playing field. Only when televisons are calibrated to an ntsc standard for brightness, contrast, color, tint, and shrpness do their true strenghths and weaknesses show. In the current Home Theater Magazine they review the XBR4 along with a Samsung unit (unsure of the model), a Toshiba, and a Phillips. The Toshiba tested best for performance out of the group but the reviewer stated he would not purchase any of the sets. Though that is personal preference I agree. I have not seen an LCD that out does a good plasma (Panasonic & Pioneer) in picture quality or black level.

In the same issue they review the new Pioneer Elite Kuro Plasma (1080p) and it had some of the best black levels of any set ever reviewed regardless of orientation (CRT, LCD, Plasma, DLP, etc.). The same set can be had in a 720p version for about $3,500 and if you are sitting farther than 6.5-8 feet away the 1080p won't matter anyway. Although in your instance, using it as a computer monitor you would most likely want the 1080p. That being the case, I would do the Panasonic 50" 1080p display with the matte fiish screen. It will give you better performace overall for movies and with their high resistance to burn in should have no issues for computer use. Not to mention their warranty and out of warranty service procedures are top notch should they ever be needed.

You should be well suited in waiting for Black Friday specials as there should be some good ones from what I hear.

Problem with that suggestion is that will cost me around ~$3500 for the Panasonic PDP-5010FD
Most I was planning to stretch my budget is 2k and less if possible.
After looking around, can get the 40" Samsung 4661F for ~$1350 at Amazon or $1700 for the 46" Samsung 4661F.
I can even get the Sony XBR4 for less, even the XBR5.

I am not a Video afficionado/expert so can't really tell much of a difference.
I guess that may help my cause as I won't be seeing the diffrences as much as I am not trained to see them.

But thanks for the input anyways and would like to know the link to that review if possible.

I got a whole week to change my mind and learn more about HDTV

 

[Kilim]

I just saw a price drop for the Samsung 4061F and its now $1299!

 

[Romulus]

I just saw a price drop for the Samsung 4061F and its now $1299!

Is that at amazon? You may want to check your local store. The place I purchased mine at just dropped it to 1479. From amazon it should be around 1400 said and done (shipping, etc). Anywhere around 1500 is a very good buy with this tv.. I am completely happy with mine.

Of the pioneers.. Of course there is always a tv that performs better. And you know what, if you buy that one then you will lose several thousand bucks when it depreciates next quarter and the replacement comes out.. THEN what do you do since there is an even nicer set out? Chasing the *best* is a dangerous venture.

 

[annunaki]

I just reread the review. Both reviewers suggested that the Toshiba 52LX177 was the winner of the 4 way "battle". Although one reviewer noted that if he "HAD" to pick one it would be the Toshiba but he would rather not pick any of them. The Samsung was a 71 model. Both reviewers noted that the 120hz implementation on the Sony and the Samsung was questionable and both rather preferred to leave it off. You could look into the Toshiba 42LX177 if you must do LCD.

The Panasonic TH-50PZ77U can be had for around $2100.00 at Circuit City. The 42" TH-42PZ77U can be had for $1,299.00 at Circuit city!
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/attachment.do?OID=191836&cmCatID=SITE%20NAVIGATION%20>%20TV%20&%20HOME%20ENTERTAINMENT%20>%20TELEVISIONS%20>%20LCD%20&%20PLASMA%20TVS

Either of these sets will outperform the LCD's for picture quality. If I had to do an LCD at this time (gun to my head) I would do a Sharp Aquos or a Toshiba. They have received the best reviews from what I have seen for LCD's.




Current issue reviews are not posted on the website until the next month's issue is released unfortunately. You would have to go pick up the current issue or read it in the store.

 

[Kilim]

I just reread the review. Both reviewers suggested that the Toshiba 52LX177 was the winner of the 4 way "battle". Although one reviewer noted that if he "HAD" to pick one it would be the Toshiba but he would rather not pick any of them. The Samsung was a 71 model. Both reviewers noted that the 120hz implementation on the Sony and the Samsung was questionable and both rather preferred to leave it off. You could look into the Toshiba 42LX177 if you must do LCD.

The Panasonic TH-50PZ77U can be had for around $2100.00 at Circuit City. The 42" TH-42PZ77U can be had for $1,299.00 at Circuit city!
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/attachment.do?OID=191836&cmCatID=SITE%20NAVIGATION%20>%20TV%20&%20HOME%20ENTERTAINMENT%20>%20TELEVISIONS%20>%20LCD%20&%20PLASMA%20TVS

Either of these sets will outperform the LCD's for picture quality. If I had to do an LCD at this time (gun to my head) I would do a Sharp Aquos or a Toshiba. They have received the best reviews from what I have seen for LCD's.




Current issue reviews are not posted on the website until the next month's issue is released unfortunately. You would have to go pick up the current issue or read it in the store.

Thanks for those info.
But I think I am kinda set on LCD.

From what I read on what I am going to use it for and where and LCD would be best for me.
At least that is what I keep reading so far.
(HDTV, DvD Movies - possibly HD-DvD or upconverted, Console Games, PC games, Internet, PC programs, well lit room)

This is 1 of trhe reviews I read: http://www.consumersearch.com/www/electronics/hdtv/index.html

Only the Panasonic TH-42PZ77U is comparitive to the price minus 1 HDMI input.

 

[annunaki]

With a high quality receiver with HDMI inputs, the number of inputs on a tv is not something I really consider much.

Remember that the Sony model they are reviewing there is old. The current XBR4 is the one that was rated marginally by Home Theater. The Samsung did about the same or perhaps a tick better than the Sony XBR4.

What are the things about plasma you don't like or are afraid of?

-Burn in is a non-issue with the newer Panasonic plasmas

-The number of HDMI inputs are a non issue if you will be using a high quality avr with HDMI switching

-The model I listed has a matte finish on the screen so it will have Anti-Glare just like an LCD.

-It is a 1080p model

-Picture quality will be superior for movies and HDTV viewing

-No issues with fast motion on the screen.

Thanks for those info.
But I think I am kinda set on LCD.

From what I read on what I am going to use it for and where and LCD would be best for me.
At least that is what I keep reading so far.
(HDTV, DvD Movies - possibly HD-DvD or upconverted, Console Games, PC games, Internet, PC programs, well lit room)

This is 1 of trhe reviews I read: http://www.consumersearch.com/www/electronics/hdtv/index.html

Only the Panasonic TH-42PZ77U is comparitive to the price minus 1 HDMI input.

 

[Kilim]

My main issue was the possible Glare that I have seen in glossy screens.
I did notice that the Samsung 71F seems to be slightly better than the 61F when I saw it but hated the glare ... was thinking the 69F would solve that.

I guess I can check again this weekend on the Plasma TV a bit more to compare them with LCD.

What would you say is teh best fitting my budget?
The Panasonic TH-42PZ77U 42"?
What would be a step up for this model just for FYI?

If its possible to list a few Plasma models that are good to choose from from average to best?
I am going to buy the TV on Black Friday so I may be able to buy a wider and possibly better model if the price is right

BTW, thanks for your time answering my questions if I have not said so yet to everyone
Its a big investment and don't want to make a mistake.

 

[annunaki]

The step up from the 42PZ77U is the 42PZ700U. I believe the 77U has a matte finish on the sceen meaning it is not glossy like the LCD sets. The 700U has an Anti-Reflective coating but I am not sure if it has a matte finish. You can check them out and see for yourself. It would be best. I will be stopping in at a Circuit City on Monday so I can take a look then too.

 

[Romulus]

I'm not familiar with the screen finishes of new plasmas.. I'm sure they come in a variety of flavors, though.

My 61f reflects very little. In fact, you cannot see any reflected objects on the screen, period. The only time it does reflect anything is if you turn a lamp on infront of it.

Plasma's are great for picture quality! I had a 42px60u (predecessor to the 77u) and it was wonderful. One of the other small selling points of lcd's is that they weigh about 2/3s of what comparable plasmas do. Of course, I'm a single guy and move every few years, so this was important to me. I hung my 42 panny on my wall by myself and it wasn't very fun.

I'm sure you will be happy with any purchase you make since you're not looking at the base level displays..

 

[Kilim]

The step up from the 42PZ77U is the 42PZ700U. I believe the 77U has a matte finish on the sceen meaning it is not glossy like the LCD sets. The 700U has an Anti-Reflective coating but I am not sure if it has a matte finish. You can check them out and see for yourself. It would be best. I will be stopping in at a Circuit City on Monday so I can take a look then too.

Hmm, I was just checking teh Panasonic website.
This is what I saw as main difference between teh 2.
Panasonic 77U vs 700U Comparison
77U

• Anti-Glare Filter
• 10,000:1 Contrast Ratio
• No PC Input

700U

• Anti-reflective Coating
• 5000:1 Contrast Ratio
• Have PC Input
• $200 more than the 77U

Shouldn't, technically speaking, the cheaper model be better somehow?

Also any other models a step up or 2?

 

[Kilim]

Well, I just came back from BB as I had time to check today and this is what I found.

Some reason, the Panasonic and Pioneer (5010) Plasmas they have in display soemhow look darker compared to the LCDs.
Its as if the Contrast/brightness settings needs to be increased.
Also, I could still see some glare issues with the Panasonics even with their Anti-Glare coating

I really did not see much of a difference in PQ with the other LCD I was looking at while comparing it to the Plasmas (which I stated looked darker to me)

Also was comparing the 40" 46" and 50" from where I would be farthest from it in my livingroom and also did not see a big difference in viewing pleasure.

Maybe Its because I am an amateur at this and that could possibly be a hidden Godsend.

 

[gus6464]

Well, I just came back from BB as I had time to check today and this is what I found.

Some reason, the Panasonic and Pioneer (5010) Plasmas they have in display soemhow look darker compared to the LCDs.
Its as if the Contrast/brightness settings needs to be increased.
Also, I could still see some glare issues with the Panasonics even with their Anti-Glare coating

I really did not see much of a difference in PQ with the other LCD I was looking at while comparing it to the Plasmas (which I stated looked darker to me)

Also was comparing the 40" 46" and 50" from where I would be farthest from it in my livingroom and also did not see a big difference in viewing pleasure.

Maybe Its because I am an amateur at this and that could possibly be a hidden Godsend.

Do not go by what you see at the store. This is my experience with LCD and Plasma.

I originally bought a 42" 1080p LCD and let me tell you that once you take it home it is a whole different story. All the TVs at the store have the brightness and contrast setting to max to show that pop. Once I hooked the thing up I sat around 10ft from the screen and the brightness was hurting my eyes after watching tv for a while. Plus running the TV at that high lv of brightness all the time will prematurely kill your set. Once I dialed it down to about 40 brightness and 50 contrast it looked a LOT better, much more natural.

So anyways the TV broke after 2 months so we had to go for another one and I decided to go for a plasma because of these reasons: For one, off angle viewing was horrendous, and I mean horrendous on the LCD. And the off angle didn't have to be that big for the PQ to degrade. Another main thing I noticed was motion blur when watching NFL in HD. At first it wasn't that bad but it became more and more noticeable after a while.

I ended up going for a Panasonic 50" 768p set instead of another LCD and now I will never go back to LCD (at least for the time being). Plasma is superior in PQ, off angle viewing (same as CRT), black levels, etc. I also play a lot of games and haven't experience any burn-in, although I have had noticed some image retention from pausing the dvr but it goes away in like 30 secs.

As far as the screen is concerned I do have one with a glass so it reflects light but I can control the lighting in my living room very easily so it is not a problem. Of course if you cannot control it then it will bothersome. And that is really the only reason I would choose an LCD over the Plasma. And even then I would go with a DLP or LCoS over an LCD (Mitsubishi or Sony).

 

[annunaki]

Kilim,

As suggested you really cannot go by what you see in the store. With an LCD next to a Plasma the Plasma will look darker as they do not have the same amount of light output. However, as stated by gus6464, once in the home the LCD light output can be bothersome in low light conditions. The Panasonic you want to look at is the TH-42PZ77U which has a very similar screen to an LCD. You need to make sure you are looking at the 42PZ77U and not the 42PX77U the PZ is 1080p and has the matte finish on the screen. It should not have any glare issues just like an LCD.

 

[Kilim]

Just saw both the Panasonic PZ700U and PZ77U at CircuitCity today.
they both have visible glare to me in their semi-lit showroom

 

[gus6464]

Just saw both the Panasonic PZ700U and PZ77U at CircuitCity today.
they both have visible glare to me in their semi-lit showroom

How bad is the lighting in your room that you need something that has 0 glare?

 

[Kilim]

How bad is the lighting in your room that you need something that has 0 glare?

I have around an 8-9 foot window in my livingroom.
We don't like our LR to be dark at all really.

Besides, the lighting in CC was very low in the showroom area yet I noticed the glare.

 

[gus6464]

I have around an 8-9 foot window in my livingroom.
We don't like our LR to be dark at all really.

Besides, the lighting in CC was very low in the showroom area yet I noticed the glare.

Well it looks like you are set on LCD no matter what we say. Although I would stay away from the Samsung 71F/81F/65F as they have that glossy coating on them which is super reflective. The other day I saw the new Mitsubishi LCDs and they are very nice. If I was buying another LCD I would definitely go for one of those.

 

[Kilim]

I fully appreciate the info i get here.

I just saw personally that the Plasma Displays I saw in the showroom still have the Glare on it even with their Anti-Glare/Reflective display.
Also understand how some stores may have settings not in proper set.
Saw a 61F in 1 store being too dark while another has it looking nice.

1 thing is for sure, Glossy screens is not what me and my family would enjoy.
if there are other suggestions for non-glossy screens, would love to hear about it

 

[MDS]

Kilim, you've discovered why it is very difficult to choose a TV based on a short viewing experience at the store. Usually they are all set up in their default mode from the manufacturer and each is different.

I decided on the Toshiba 52LX177 (ordered it a few days ago). I saw it right next to a Sharp 92U and some model of Sony XBR all showing the same channel. An orange couch in the picture looked different on each set. Now which one is showing it 'correctly'? The Sharp and the Toshiba were similar and the Sony was way different. I've noticed that with the Sony sets a lot - one time in particular when every other brand showed a Red book on the screen whereas the Sony was reddish-pink.