Need advise on how to get better stereo sound from AVENTAGE 1060

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snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
The “Through Mode“ sounds best to me on my 2060.

Either way, update to different speakers not AVR models for more significant changes.
 
P

pcosmic

Audioholic
The “Through Mode“ sounds best to me on my 2060.

Either way, update to different speakers not AVR models for more significant changes.
It sounds like YPAO: flat or YPAO" naturall didn't cut it for him. I suggested manual PEQ so he can go further. A flat line on the manual parametric EQ is the same as "through mode".
But, he has option to tune things from there to his taste if "through mode" a.ka. a flat line on manual PEQ is not cutting it for him either.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Positioning is the other item. Maybe make sure his towers are set up far enough from wall if rear ported and spread out maybe 7 feet apart. Possibly try to angle them a little inward. (Toe in).

I’m not familiar with Monitor Audio Silver but possibly their gold series is better if he wanted to upgrade just the front 2. Think I recall @ryanosaur auditioned these at some point.
 
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iggymarsu

Enthusiast
@snakeeyes yes the Gold is better in terms of finishing & build but as I am running a hybrid, if I change my L&R then I have to consider the tonal imbalance to my mainstage if I don't change my Centre. Also when I auditioned them I found that the Golds do not always win hands down in a blind test, depending on the songs played the Silver at times do sound better to me. I say better to me in the sense that - one man's meat is another man's poison.
 
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iggymarsu

Enthusiast
@pcosmic

I noticed my setup is inline with this article, the key difference being I am using a power amp instead of an intergrated amp with HT bypass & because the power amp does not have any volume control I cannot use my 1060 for that & therefore volume control is via the streamer which has a digital pre-amp that is by default off but was relevant for my scenario & hence I turned it on.

To quote a paragraph:
"The major benefit here is a big one: because all two-channel sources are connected to the stereo amp (or the 851W in my case), which exclusively powers the front-left and front-right speakers, they completely bypass the surround components. This is pure, unadulterated hi-fi, but you also have a full surround sound system for a properly cinematic experience. "

If the above is true, then how will 2 CH DSP from the 1060 have any effect on my CXN? Because to apply the DSP the source has to be input directly to & be processed by the 1060 correct?

As for the other observations & pointers you highligted:
Step 1.1: Yes that is correct
Step 1.2: Yes that is correct. However I did not intent to setup the 1060 as a pre-amp, tbh I was actually ignorant of that fact, not realising that would be be outcome? Because the streamer is also playing the part of a pre-amp for 2 channel. Does that mean I now have 2 pre-amps in my setup?
 
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pcosmic

Audioholic
@pcosmic

I noticed my setup is inline with this article, the key difference being I am using a power amp instead of an intergrated amp with HT bypass & because the power amp does not have any volume control I cannot use my 1060 for that & therefore volume control is via the steamer which has a digital pre-amp that is by default off but was relevant for my scenario & hence I turned it on.

To quote a paragraph:
"The major benefit here is a big one: because all two-channel sources are connected to the stereo amp (or the 851W in my case), which exclusively powers the front-left and front-right speakers, they completely bypass the surround components. This is pure, unadulterated hi-fi, but you also have a full surround sound system for a properly cinematic experience. "

If the above is true, then how will 2 CH DSP from the 1060 have any effect on my CXN? Because to apply the DSP the source has to be input directly to & be processed by the 1060 correct?

As for the other observations & pointers you highligted:
Step 1.1: Yes that is correct
Step 1.2: Yes that is correct. However I did not intent to setup the 1060 as a pre-amp, tbh I was actually ignorant of that fact, not realising that would be be outcome? Because the streamer is also playing the part of a pre-amp for 2 channel. Does that mean I now have 2 pre-amps in my setup?
A) Cambridge CXN V2 in "preamp mode" is a standalone streamer+digital preamp. When you connect it's analog balanced output to the 851W analaog balanced in, it is a standalone 2 channel hifi setup. You will control volume through your remote or your "stream magic" app. This is your 2 channel hifi option.

B) Yamaha 1060 is a standalone streamer+preamp+poweramp in one box ( a.k.a, a receiver). When you connect this receiver's pre-outs to a external power amp (the 851W, in this case) and choose to not use its built in power amp section, it is a standalone streamer+preamp. In this case, the 1060 can serve as i) a multichannel preamp (surround processor) for multi channnel music or movies or ii) as a 2 channel preamp for 2 channel music.
Your digital sources for the 1060 are streaming through Yamaha Musiccast (Pandora, tidal, etc), DLNA server or digital flac files on a flashdrive plugged into the 1060's USB input.

C) Do not plug the CXNV2's analog RCA output to Audio 2 (analog in) of the 1060 AVR. I'll explain why this is not a good scenario. You have a good DAC implementation in your CXNV2 or you're supposed to in theory (because of the price you paid). When you plug it into a analog input of the AVR, you're re-digitizing the analog input to use the AVR's DSP/bass management/PEQ/etc features. In other words, the analog input goes through a analog to digital conversion. So, you've nullified the CXN's DAC. The quality of your audio now hinges on the quality of the DAC implementation and preamp sections of the AVR anyways.
Keep this in mind, DAC/ADC/DAC is not good!

D) If you insist on using the CXNV2 as the source for this receiver, you can use it as a "digital transport". This means you connect the CXNV2's optical output to 1060's optical input (audio 1 or audio 2). The latter bypasses the CXNV2's DAC and brings it as a digital signal (not analog) to the 1060. The quality of your audio now hinges on the quality of the DAC implementation and preamp sections of the AVR and how good CXNV2 is as a transport. I can already tell you this is a much better option than what you are doing in C.

E) Now, after you have gone through all the steps i've mentioned on my earlier comment to optimize make the Yamaha streamer+preamp (described in B) to sound better, make a sound quality comparison of
Standalone Yamaha setup as a 2 channel streamer+preamp+851W VS Standalone Cambridge CXN 2 channel streamer+preamp+851W
In other words, could B (when setup for 2 channel) beat A in sound quality?
Or does D beat A?
Or does D beath both A and B?
Compare and let us know! ;)
 
I

iggymarsu

Enthusiast
@pcosmic interestingly I was already on Option C for the longest while & unhappy, hence the addition of the 851W which took me to Option A. You are spot on to say the SQ difference is worlds apart from C to A. So I'm very happy now :)

I have tried Option B too - between the 1060 vs CXN for streaming SQ, for me its the CXN hands down. Maybe the 3080 would be a better fight...or even the upcoming RX-A8?

On a side note, I think the MusicCast app is still one of the best apps out there.

Earlier you mentioned that the Yam can do LFE+Main, can you tell me more about this?
 
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pcosmic

Audioholic
@pcosmic interestingly I was already on Option C for the longest while & unhappy, hence the addition of the 851W which took me to Option A. You are spot on to say the SQ difference is worlds apart from C to A. So I'm very happy now :)

I have tried Option B too - between the 1060 vs CXN for streaming SQ, for me its the CXN hands down. Maybe the 3080 would be a better fight...or even the upcoming RX-A8?

On a side note, I think the MusicCast app is still one of the best apps out there.

Earlier you mentioned that the Yam can do LFE+Main, can you tell me more about this?
Good to know that you're finally happy! Make sure you give that 851W enough room to breathe. Stacking things on top of it may not be a good idea.

Yamaha calls lfe+main as "extra bass". Options/subwoofer/Extra Bass
 
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iggymarsu

Enthusiast
But why not just get a 200WX2 power amp? The SA20 offers a very average DAC and the preamp is not going to do better than the RX-A1060 based on bench test results we have seen for their comparable products. Going from the AVR's rated output to the Arcam's 90W is definitely a downgrade though the difference is very minor, and for $1,200?? It is not a good value if audio quality is your goal.
I was reading through my journey...& it looks like I ended up with this after all...

Thanks everyone, all great advice :)
 

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