Need advise on how to get better stereo sound from AVENTAGE 1060

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iggymarsu

Enthusiast
Hi all,

I want to maintain my 5.1 HT but also be able to enjoy a good stereo sound. I am planning to hook up the SA20 (stereo amp with HT bypass) to my AVENTAGE. Can someone guide me on how I should have the cables connected to get this going? I would like to still maintain my bi-amp, can I switch from a horizonal to a vertical bi-amp - HF to the ARCAM & LF to the AVR?


My setup:
YAMAHA AVENTAGE RX-A1060,
CAMBRIDGE AUDIO CNX V2, (Analoge RCA to Audio2 of AVR)
MONITOR AUDIO SILVER 200 AV12 ( Setup as 5.1,LR are horizontal bi-amped)
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Sounds like you are gonna make a mess of it personally. The amp isn't gonna measure any better then the Yamaha and using two different amps to passive biamp causes more problems. Aside from the fact that passive biamping doesn't improve anything (unless you are send .lfe to the bass drivers).

If you want slightly better sound quality, use the Yamaha in pure mode shutting off all dsp.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Here is a review of the Arcam AV40 which you can compare to the Yamaha in the review charts, they are very similar. (Neither great by the numbers, FWIW)
 
I

iggymarsu

Enthusiast
Sounds like you are gonna make a mess of it personally. The amp isn't gonna measure any better then the Yamaha and using two different amps to passive biamp causes more problems. Aside from the fact that passive biamping doesn't improve anything (unless you are send .lfe to the bass drivers).

If you want slightly better sound quality, use the Yamaha in pure mode shutting off all dsp.
From what I can hear now from the streamer, when I go Pure DIrect, I seem to loose some depth. So it seems I lose bass management with PD (I don't have the option LFE+Main). However in STRAIGHT mode, the music sounds way better.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
From what I can hear now from the streamer, when I go Pure DIrect, I seem to loose some depth. So it seems I lose bass management with PD (I don't have the option LFE+Main). However in STRAIGHT mode, the music sounds way better.
You loose bass management, yes. If you look at the review I attached, you notice that would be the trade off. You are probably not loosing depth but removing distortion or other artifacts.

My main point was you are gonna improve your setup by adding the Arcam, just adding more gear.
 
I

iggymarsu

Enthusiast
Sounds like you are gonna make a mess of it personally. The amp isn't gonna measure any better then the Yamaha and using two different amps to passive biamp causes more problems. Aside from the fact that passive biamping doesn't improve anything (unless you are send .lfe to the bass drivers).

If you want slightly better sound quality, use the Yamaha in pure mode shutting off all dsp.
I was under the impression that any decent 2ch stereo amp will always be way better than a mid range AVR when it come to stereo.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
I was under the impression that any decent 2ch stereo amp will always be way better than a mid range AVR when it come to stereo.
Not really as it's to vague. The Denon x3700 measure better the many very expensive integrated and seperates. There is no rule of thumb, just measurements and audible sound to the ears with electronics and amps.

If you are going for the purest 2 ch sound, adding that particular unit wouldn't be doing it.
 
I

iggymarsu

Enthusiast
You loose bass management, yes. If you look at the review I attached, you notice that would be the trade off. You are probably not loosing depth but removing distortion or other artifacts.

My main point was you are gonna improve your setup by adding the Arcam, just adding more gear.
Yes I read it, its quite an in-depth review of AV40 AV processor, but I am looking at the SA20 intergtated amplifer.

Did you mean it will not improve my stereo sound quality?
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Yes I read it, its quite an in-depth review of AV40 AV processor, but I am looking at the SA20 intergtated amplifer.

Did you mean it will not improve my stereo sound quality?
Yes is was comparing high end AVR to mid level AVR as an example in price.

What would make that integrated better than your AVR for two channel?
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
No sir...not foolish enough to take the dive...not without some research & feedback :)
If you feel that the Yamaha isn't powering your speakers enough or clipping, just pick up a two channel amp and use the preouts. The NCore and Purifi Class D amp measure incredibly and you pick up one between $700 to $1100 depending on the configuration.

Here is the Yamaha test and if you scroll to the amp section you can see the chart with where it ranks among tested amps.
 
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I

iggymarsu

Enthusiast
If you feel that the Yamaha isn't powering your speakers enough or clipping, just pick up a two channel amp and use the preouts. The NCore and Purifi Class D amp measure incredibly and you pick up one between $700 to $1100 depending on the configuration.

Here is the Yamaha test and if you scroll to the amp section you can see the chart with where it ranks among tested amps.

Oh well...looks like 1080 is not the way to go then...if the ESS 9007 is bad, I wonder how the 9006A fared.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Oh well...looks like 1080 is not the way to go then...if the ESS 9007 is bad, I wonder how the 9006A fared.
It's probaby the implementation, not the DAC, and a lot of the issues are inaudible. The denon 3700 measured better than the Marantz AV7004.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I was under the impression that any decent 2ch stereo amp will always be way better than a mid range AVR when it come to stereo.
Key word is "always", and that's false in this case, not the SA20.. It looks nice, and there are applications where it might be a good choice though there are better values out there. However, Placebo effects may potentially have you believed that HT bypass is worth it, when it is not if you don't know bypass is on.

So just hook up your RX-A1060 FL/FR pre-outs to the analog input of the SA20 that you assigned to HT bypass and you are in business, and enjoy the better sound offered by the great magician named Placebo.:p

Biamp is this would be a total waste of time. I believe in the theoretical benefits that are not audible in a blind test, but in your case, I don't even see any theoretical benefits.

Another thing that is always a puzzle to me is, why are there so many forum members asking questions about adding an integrating amp to their AVRs? Why wouldn't they simply go for a real separate, a power amp that offers at least 200 WPC, another less will likely be a case of paying more for no noticeable audible benefits, or even a downgrade if one doesn't need the extra power. That's because the internal amps of some brand name AVRs such as D+M and Yamaha's actually have better specs and verified by bench test results.
 
I

iggymarsu

Enthusiast
Another thing that is always a puzzle to me is, why are there so many forum members asking questions about adding an integrating amp to their AVRs? Why wouldn't they simply go for a real separate, a power amp that offers at least 200 WPC, another less will likely be a case of paying more for no noticeable audible benefits, or even a downgrade if one doesn't need the extra power. That's because the internal amps of some brand name AVRs such as D+M and Yamaha's actually have better specs and verified by bench test results.
I can't speak for the rest, but for me I'm looking for a plausible solution where I can leverage off an existing system as opposed to building separates from the ground up. Unfortunately where I live, real estate is limited & I don't have the luxury of an audio man cave. I guess if you remove budget & space from the equation, the puzzle solves itself.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I can't speak for the rest, but for me I'm looking for a plausible solution where I can leverage off an existing system as opposed to building separates from the ground up. Unfortunately where I live, real estate is limited & I don't have the luxury of an audio man cave. I guess if you remove budget & space from the equation, the puzzle solves itself.
But why not just get a 200WX2 power amp? The SA20 offers a very average DAC and the preamp is not going to do better than the RX-A1060 based on bench test results we have seen for their comparable products. Going from the AVR's rated output to the Arcam's 90W is definitely a downgrade though the difference is very minor, and for $1,200?? It is not a good value if audio quality is your goal.
 
I

iggymarsu

Enthusiast
But why not just get a 200WX2 power amp? The SA20 offers a very average DAC and the preamp is not going to do better than the RX-A1060 based on bench test results we have seen for their comparable products. Going from the AVR's rated output to the Arcam's 90W is definitely a downgrade though the difference is very minor, and for $1,200?? It is not a good value if audio quality is your goal.
You mean connect my source / streamer to the power amp? How about the speaker connection?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
You mean connect my source / streamer to the power amp? How about the speaker connection?
No, I meant connect the pre-amp outputs of your RX-A1060 to the power amp's input and the speakers connect to the power amp's output. Lots of people on this forum do that with their AVRs.
 

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