What are You Really Paying for with High-End Audio Gear?

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Jerry Del Colliano is back posing a very interesting question that audiophiles and home theater enthusiasts should reflect on and answer.

What are we really buying when we really open up the checkbook? Not all AV components are equal, not by a long margin. Some are huge. Others are so small that you need to secure them to your rack so they don’t fall on the floor because of normal use. Check out our article to see what you are REALLY paying for with audiophile gear.

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Read: What Are you Paying for with Audiophile Gear?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
How is this "audiophile gear" defined to begin with? The silly side of audiophilia or a more sensible side? That to be ridiculed for being sold by silly reviews with at best mediocre spec or ? I tend to think "audiophile" as used in marketing to be generally unreliable at best myself.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
How is this "audiophile gear" defined to begin with? The silly side of audiophilia or a more sensible side? That to be ridiculed for being sold by silly reviews with at best mediocre spec or ? I tend to think "audiophile" as used in marketing to be generally unreliable at best myself.
Also does audiophile only apply to 2 channel stereo music because I'm strictly a 5.2 or more home theater guy. I kinda get the feeling that true "audiophile" 2 channel stereo guys look down on home theater guys. That's just the vibe that I get though.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Also does audiophile only apply to 2 channel stereo music because I'm strictly a 5.2 or more home theater guy. I kinda get the feeling that true "audiophile" 2 channel stereo guys look down on home theater guys. That's just the vibe that I get though.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
Audiophile by most definitions is a preference for hi end reproduction gear.....not a literal thing but probably a good general definition. Stereo itself doesn't particularly mean 2.0 either. Early studies said 3.0 was better but black pizza didn't really accommodate such....and movies had more options than home applIcation of 3ch audio (what, some black pizza for that let alone the other gear at consumer prices? :) ).
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
Audiophile by most definitions is a preference for hi end reproduction gear.....not a literal thing but probably a good general definition. Stereo itself doesn't particularly mean 2.0 either. Early studies said 3.0 was better but black pizza didn't really accommodate such....and movies had more options than home applIcation of 3ch audio (what, some black pizza for that let alone the other gear at consumer prices? :) ).
Yeah I hear on that but it just seems to me, audiophile means stereo 2 channel and music not movie theater sound. Anyway that could just be me that gets that feeling.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah I hear on that but it just seems to me, audiophile means stereo 2 channel and music not movie theater sound. Anyway that could just be me that gets that feeling.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
I just get annoyed by that sort of definition, audiophile having become a fairly well polluted term over the years. I get annoyed still by your stupid tapatalk signature, which isn't news to you either :)
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
I just get annoyed by that sort of definition, audiophile having become a fairly well polluted term over the years. I get annoyed still by your stupid tapatalk signature, which isn't news to you either :)
My Tapatalk signature? What is that? I don't even know what that is.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
My Tapatalk signature? What is that? I don't even know what that is.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
When I look at this reply it says "sent from my Pixel 4 xl using tapatalk" which means you can go into tapatalk settings and get rid of this advertisment;...which I'm positive I've asked you to do many times :) Just gave up. But would be really nice if you'd go into your app settings in tapatalk and get rid of the default "ad"..... Please? Pretty please? Love ya!
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
When I look at this reply it says "sent from my Pixel 4 xl using tapatalk" which means you can go into tapatalk settings and get rid of this advertisment;...which I'm positive I've asked you to do many times :) Just gave up. But would be really nice if you'd go into your app settings in tapatalk and get rid of the default "ad"..... Please? Pretty please? Love ya!
I think I just did it, let me know? I honestly had no idea. Tapatalk sucks anyway.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think I just did it, let me know? I honestly had no idea. Tapatalk sucks anyway.
Oh f*ck yeah! Thank you, seriouslyl. I'll try and take back all the old curses and threats, but....ya know....
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think I just did it, let me know? I honestly had no idea. Tapatalk sucks anyway.
as to Tapatalk, was the best way for a while on mobile devices, altho think now it's much better on the newer operating system versions....and again thanks!
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
Here's the bottom-line question, does high-end (more expensive) audio equipment deliver a more lifelike sound from recorded music media than less expensive devices out there today? And the next question is, if high-end does deliver a more lifelike sound what is it about the concept's design/construction/materials that distinguishes its sound from lower priced audio? All I know is I do not know the answer to either of these questions and I do not have the budget to get a better understanding of it all. What I do know for sure is my system seems to deliver lifelike sound from stereo SACDs via a very inexpensive component chain: Sony UBP-X800M2 Player to Marantz NR1200 (used as a 2.1preamp / DSD DAC) to Sony TA-N9000ES and TA-N80ES power amplification to JBL L100t3 mains and B380 subwoofer. My perception is the sound I get could be more lifelike (effortless realistic volume) from purchase of horn loaded main speakers, like the JBL 4367's, L200's, or L300's, none of which I can afford.
 
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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
I think I just did it, let me know? I honestly had no idea. Tapatalk sucks anyway.
:)

 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The final 10% for ten times the cost has never been something that has impressed me. Call it having bad hearing, or call it just not caring enough. Maybe I was never an audiophile, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Having a properly installed AV system is far more important IMO. Decent sound, at a fair price is often something I see my clients get actively giddy about. Sitting down on a tile floor, because they have no furniture, and watching an entire movie in 5.1 surround sound, using in-wall Monoprice speakers, and a sub $1,000 Yamaha/Denon receiver, with a $1,500 projector on a 130" Silver Ticket screen.

It blows people away who are coming from their non-surround sound TV setup.

That joy may keep going forever until people actually are audiophiles, but most people are overjoyed at that simple step up in quality at a reasonable price, and as you spend more and more and more, there is very little gained except from those who just have nothing better to do than spend money.

The author of the article falls into a category few of us ever actually enter. Using a 11+ channel surround receiver (or preamp) with amplifiers, is something that I imagine less than 1% of the home theater market utilizes. So, those building those products are catering to an already small group of the whole. Even worse are those boutique brands because of the price tag.

One thing I emphasize, is that you are no longer paying for the build quality. You are paying for the software support. This is, absolutely, the biggest rub. Software changes constantly in the modern era. Any product with integrated streaming services, must keep those services up to date with an ever changing backbone.

I think the best of the best really just DON'T go there. They keep their products simple. An AV receiver without ANY streaming service and with minimal add on's such as Airplay, or Bluetooth. This way they can focus on getting the best audio and video possible through their product and lock it in with few firmware update requirements. Let those who want streaming do so with a Roku, or a HTPC or similar. Let those who want other functions, get them elsewhere. Want audio streaming? Get a Sonos, or a Bluesound product instead of using something built in.

This mentality is tough because Yamaha and Denon build a lot of these features into their products. The downside, is that there is no possible way for them to maintain firmware updates for decades to come. Kind of like all the phone manufacturers. You get a few years of updates. Maybe up to ten years. But, beyond that, the old processors can't keep up with modern requirements and they are no longer supported. So, why pay a ton more for something that you know will be obsolete?

It causes me headaches. Most of all with pre-pros which are very hard to get at a reasonable price. A nice 7.2.4 pre-pro at a great price is really hard to find. It's darn near impossible to get under $1,000. When you find them, they have a LONG list of additional features that are mostly useless. 12 HDMI inputs (WTF?), component, composite, maybe some s-video connections... why? A slimmed down, basic full surround sound receiver that I can hook up to my existing quality amps, which go to my existing quality speakers is all I am looking for. I might upgrade it every few years to the newest model if pricing were right. It never is.

Not sure it makes sense, or is even possible for a Denon/Yamaha product to fit that niche. It certainly isn't something a smaller company can afford to get into either. But, I will always struggle with the concept of paying thousands for that last 10% in quality on a new product at full price. On a used set of Meridian speakers? Yeah, that's something I could consider at a great price. But, those products are really designed for the multi-millionaire crowd. Which there is a scary number of.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
What are You Really Paying for with High-End Audio Gear?

Why prestige, of course. I had an Audio Research tube amp once upon a time. It made me feel good. It was built like a rock. Measured harmonic distortion was 2%. Not really audible but one can buy lower harmonic distortion and more power for a lot less money without losing any definition.
 
G

Golfx

Full Audioholic
Much like the original author wrote, I like the entire incremental journey of desiring, learning, hunting, purchasing, setting up, learning the new settings and then settling in for awhile before I begin again. Each time arriving at a temporary nirvana.
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
How is this "audiophile gear" defined to begin with? The silly side of audiophilia or a more sensible side? That to be ridiculed for being sold by silly reviews with at best mediocre spec or ? I tend to think "audiophile" as used in marketing to be generally unreliable at best myself.
It's all about the fancy enclosures and bragging how much it cost.

I know I didn't have to pay what I did for a DAC, but it shore look purty!

Anyt hing not a speaker hits diminishing returns pretty quickly.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Stirling asked the correct questions as did Hetfield's first post. The article didnt say much at all except for the part that costs distributed over low volume sales leads to higher prices per unit; oh and import duties and distributor costs also adds to the price. i already knew all that having taken a beginner economics course at the university I got my EE degree in. I wanted more meat. What more meat?

For starters audiophiles have a rather strange notion that the components found in AVRs are of dollar store quality and are inferior and produce inferior sound to their seperates and integrated 2 channel amps. At ASR, some chap complained about the heatsinks being the cheap folded aluminum variety instead of the expensive extruded heatsinks used by other manufacturers in that it wouldnt be able to keep the RX-A AVRs cool enough. Its silly notions like these that the article that could have been explored.

Another menu option that could have been added to the article is digital transports and uber expensive CD players verses everyday players that the majority of us use in our systems. Audiophiles seem to think that error correction and jitter control are far superior of these high end CD players and transports resulting in superior sound to a bluray player when used as a CD player. Ive tried telling them that timimng constraints are much tighter for video than audio and that the error correctgion found in bluray players are more than tight enough to be used as a CD player but my arguement falls on deaf ears.

There is more but I need to go and get ready for my daily 12km walk.

This article makes an excellent introductory article but unless its followed up by more in depth analysis later on in the future, it will remain just an introductory article.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Like so many things in life, there are two opposing ways of thinking about buying audio gear.

One way seeks good sound quality by throwing money at it, in an effort to achieve 'state-of-the-art'. The other way seeks good sound quality by learning what is 'good enough'. The difference between the two can be quite a lot of money.

Much of what I like to call the 'Boutique Audio Industry' is well aware that many of its customers don't seem to understand or believe that 'good enough' and 'state-of-the-art' can be indistinguishable.

I liked BMXTRIX's point:
"One thing I emphasize, is that you are no longer paying for the build quality. You are paying for the software support."​

That sums up most modern audio gear, other than loudspeakers or amplifiers.
 
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