My thoughts on the RSL Speedwoofer10s

[Morgan Audio]

-We, meaning the wife and I, she love's subwoofers, were sooooooooooooooooooo glad we waited for the subs to watch Justice League I am so impressed with these little monsters. As a matter of fact, I must have said that to my wife like 10 times during the movie. I know I'm missing some of the subsonic frequencies, but, what these subs do, they do with an outstanding mixture of finesse and vengeance. I couldn't be more happy with this or any purchase. I hate this upcoming phrase because it always seems to let the air out of a review but sometimes it has to be said. ( for what you pay here ) you are getting 2 or 3 times that price performance. I've had Velodyne, Sunfire, Reaction Audio, B&W, SVS and many more I that can't even remember and the only one that was as accurate as my speedwoofers was the B&W ASW10, very musical but even it couldn't hit as hard as the speedwoofers. Now the SVS PB2PLus was a monster indeed and could shake your butt at 16Hz but I'll gladly give up that for the frigging power punch the speedwoofers have all the way to their lowest frequency, which in my room is about 22Hz. I can't wait to pair them with my soon to be here CG3's and CG23's. Were gonna break some sh** lol - Thank you Joe and than you RSL for taking the time to create such an overachieving product and for allowing the public to enjoy your creations without sending us all to the poor house. 10's across the board...... Jay Morgan

I agree with all I've read, best under 500 and if you want more, buy 2, you will not regret it.

Running them now on an Onkyo RZ800 with Less Hudson Full speakers range speakers, amazing

 

[KahunaB14]

"Now the SVS PB2PLus was a monster indeed and could shake your butt at 16Hz but I'll gladly give up that for the frigging power punch the speedwoofers have all the way to their lowest frequency"

I am wondering what you mean by power punch all the way to the lowest frequency? Are you talking more max SPL than the PB12Plus in the mid range from say 40hz to your crossover point? Also - what is your crossover point?

I ask because I am not 100% satisfied with my PB12-NSD reproducing kick drums in terms of that thump in your chest. I guess the "attack" is the correct term.

 

[Morgan Audio]

"Now the SVS PB2PLus was a monster indeed and could shake your butt at 16Hz but I'll gladly give up that for the frigging power punch the speedwoofers have all the way to their lowest frequency"

I am wondering what you mean by power punch all the way to the lowest frequency? Are you talking more max SPL than the PB12Plus in the mid range from say 40hz to your crossover point? Also - what is your crossover point?

I ask because I am not 100% satisfied with my PB12-NSD reproducing kick drums in terms of that thump in your chest. I guess the "attack" is the correct term.

Well, I didn't do measurements on equipment that captures that sort of stuff, I'm just going on what I hear and feel. Kick drums, door slams, gunshots, bass guitar, things like that sound way better on the speedwoofes than it did on my pb2plus. Now I do have 2 speedwoofers, and damn sure will have 4 before the year is up lol. Most things I buy, I am happy with but usually don't get that ( That's it!! ) thought but for 399 each, I am a facefull of smiles and so is my wife.

Hell, it's free trial, just call Joe Rogers at RSL and he'll hook ya right up. Really nice people and strong work and build ethics ...Hope that helped

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Joe is the best.

 

[Morgan Audio]

Joe is the best.

You said it. That man goes above and beyond in both his work ethic and his customer service. A great man to know

 

[pewternhrata]

Cannot wait to get mine, ordered one over the weekend. My end goal is 2 sub's, so at 399 a piece it's a lot easier to save up for. I was going to go svs (I have the ultra books) but I read a lot similar to what you stated, the 10s might not drop as low but it keeps its punch throughout its output better than the competition. Not gonna lie, I'm still a bit skeptical but I'll share my input when I get it.

 

[Morgan Audio]

Cannot wait to get mine, ordered one over the weekend. My end goal is 2 sub's, so at 399 a piece it's a lot easier to save up for. I was going to go svs (I have the ultra books) but I read a lot similar to what you stated, the 10s might not drop as low but it keeps its punch throughout its output better than the competition. Not gonna lie, I'm still a bit skeptical but I'll share my input when I get it.

I can understand the skepticism. Everytime I start to buy a new sub or speakers, omg, I go into frantic mode trying to find everything I can about each one in my price range, drives me nuts, to many choices sometimes lol. I got 2 right off the bat because I knew exactly what I was looking for and it is bad ass. I know, yes more money will buy me some better stuff but for this money, you can't beat RSL, at least in my opinion

Hey, good luck to ya man ....

 

[shadyJ]

Keep in mind that the character that you are attributing to the RSL subs is almost certainly a matter of response shape. If you had the equalization ability, you could shape the PB2Plus sub to have the same kind of response as the speedwoofer10 and thereby have the same sound. But since the speedwoofer10 doesn't have the deep bass ability as the SVS sub, you would not be able to shape its response to make it sound like the PB2Plus.

 

[Morgan Audio]

Keep in mind that the character that you are attributing to the RSL subs is almost certainly a matter of response shape. If you had the equalization ability, you could shape the PB2Plus sub to have the same kind of response as the speedwoofer10 and thereby have the same sound. But since the speedwoofer10 doesn't have the deep bass ability as the SVS sub, you would not be able to shape its response to make it sound like the PB2Plus.

Yup, maybe but that's more equipment to buy and I wanted dual subs anyway. I love um. I did miss the subsonics for a few days but after Thor, I was happy and in the end being happy with your equipment is all that matters. Be cool friend

 

[KEW]

Keep in mind that the character that you are attributing to the RSL subs is almost certainly a matter of response shape. If you had the equalization ability, you could shape the PB2Plus sub to have the same kind of response as the speedwoofer10 and thereby have the same sound. But since the speedwoofer10 doesn't have the deep bass ability as the SVS sub, you would not be able to shape its response to make it sound like the PB2Plus.

What you say is true, but I would contend that we all too often recommend a sub more like the PB2Plus when someone comes here looking for a recommendation for a music only sub. For typical music content the Speedwoofer appears to go as deep as you would need.
Consequently, many of the common recommendations here involve paying extra for deeper bass (and those bottom Hz are the most expensive), then, further paying extra for the EQ system and the time to learn how to use it ... only to de-tune that deep bass to get it to sound like a less expensive Speedwoofer.
For a music only system, most are really looking for a "woofer" to supplement the bass of their bookshelf speaker (or stylish tower with 6" woofers). We should have a good recommendation for this situation without defaulting to the most SPL and extension they can afford!

I know the OP did not specify using this for music only and he stated that he missed some of the deeper bass of Thor, but the fact that he is willing to sacrifice the deep bass for the improved upper bass afforded without having to externally EQ should not be lost! It sounds like the Speedwoofer is a very good "woofer" for a bass challenged music system!

 

[pewternhrata]

What you say is true, but I would contend that we all too often recommend a sub more like the PB2Plus when someone comes here looking for a recommendation for a music only sub. For typical music content the Speedwoofer appears to go as deep as you would need.
Consequently, many of the common recommendations here involve paying extra for deeper bass (and those bottom Hz are the most expensive), then, further paying extra for the EQ system and the time to learn how to use it ... only to de-tune that deep bass to get it to sound like a less expensive Speedwoofer.
For a music only system, most are really looking for a "woofer" to supplement the bass of their bookshelf speaker (or stylish tower with 6" woofers). We should have a good recommendation for this situation without defaulting to the most SPL and extension they can afford!

I know the OP did not specify using this for music only and he stated that he missed some of the deeper bass of Thor, but the fact that he is willing to sacrifice the deep bass for the improved upper bass afforded without having to externally EQ should not be lost! It sounds like the Speedwoofer is a very good "woofer" for a bass challenged music system!

How far off of the low end would you say it is? To me, around mid 20s would suffice just fine (again for my needs). Movies can dig into what, roughly 15? I couldn't argue against being able to drop lower, but unfortunately my pocket can lol. I don't see myself at any point being able to drop 2k on subs...I still need another display, center channel, and avr...at least the wife is ok with me making 'small' purchases once or twice a yr to get back into a full setup.

 

[KEW]

How far off of the low end would you say it is? To me, around mid 20s would suffice just fine (again for my needs). Movies can dig into what, roughly 15? I couldn't argue against being able to drop lower, but unfortunately my pocket can lol. I don't see myself at any point being able to drop 2k on subs...I still need another display, center channel, and avr...at least the wife is ok with me making 'small' purchases once or twice a yr to get back into a full setup.

You have probably seen these, but Marshall Gunthrie of AH reviewed them here (without measurements) and Brent Butterworth reviewed them in the second link (with measurements!).
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rsl-speedwoofer-10s
https://hometheaterreview.com/rsl-speedwoofer-10s-subwoofer-reviewed/

Brent measured F3 at 29Hz.
Remember the lowest note on a bass is right around 40Hz, so your mid-20 objective might be asking for more than you realize! However, once room gain is added, it is reasonable that you would see mid 20's.

The beauty of dealing with RSL is you get to listen and see for yourself risk free!

Brent makes a good point about the Hsu VTF-mk3:

Hsu Research's VTF-1 MK3 subwoofer is another obvious competitor. It's a perfect price match for the Speedwoofer 10S, but it stands apart in a couple of distinct ways. First, it features a dual ported design, one or both of which can be sealed to tune the sub's performance. It also features a variable Q control, making it an impressively tweakable subwoofer, especially at this price point. Again, though, it is a good deal taller and deeper than the RSL.

It currently is on sale for $435 shipped. Hsu subs are nice because you could tune it one way for movies and differently for music. The trade-off is risk free evaluation (unless you are close to California, I would guess return shipping on the Hsu at $65 to $75) and the Hsu's larger cabinet may be problematic for your room.

If I was in your shoes, I would probably try the Speedwoofer risk-free and if I felt like I was missing something important try the Hsu (or more likely regroup and reconsider my budget). However, I know I am happy enough without the deepest bass. Deep bass is nice for bragging rights and occasionally rattling the picture frames on the wall, but I spent enough time with built-in TV speakers that I believe something like the Speedwoofer 10S is damn fine for HT! You may have totally different ideas on HT!

HTH!

 

[shadyJ]

How far off of the low end would you say it is? To me, around mid 20s would suffice just fine (again for my needs). Movies can dig into what, roughly 15? I couldn't argue against being able to drop lower, but unfortunately my pocket can lol. I don't see myself at any point being able to drop 2k on subs...I still need another display, center channel, and avr...at least the wife is ok with me making 'small' purchases once or twice a yr to get back into a full setup.

There are movies that can dig lower than the mid teens, but that is the sensible frequency range that anyone trying to capture most everything in a movie sound mix should be aiming for. Once you get below 20 Hz, the effects of sound is mostly pretty subtle, even at high SPLs. I would aim for 15 to 16 Hz. To dig deeper than that with any kind of appreciable returns needs either huge ported subs or lots of high-excursion, high-powered sealed subs; a massive system either way. I would say the mid teens are the practical target for subs, and lower than that gets into impractical extremes.

For music, it depends on what music you listen to. Pipe organ music can sometimes dig down to 16 Hz. Electronic music can sometimes dig down to 20 Hz, but mostly only the extremes of electronic music. Conventional music rarely digs below 40 Hz. Unless your musical tastes are eclectic, there is not much need to get a system that digs below the mid 30's Hz range.

 

[shadyJ]

Consequently, many of the common recommendations here involve paying extra for deeper bass (and those bottom Hz are the most expensive), then, further paying extra for the EQ system and the time to learn how to use it ...

Deeper bass isn't so much about extra money as it is extra size, and that size has a serious penalty in the WAF department. The size is why we don't see these kind of subs at audio retailers; low WAF means low sales. For example, look at the Hsu VTF-2 mk5, it isn't a crazy expensive sub, but it does veer on the large side, but that is necessary for its sub 20 Hz frequency response. Once subwoofers start aiming for responses that go below the mid 20 Hz region, the size requirements just start to balloon.

 

[shadyJ]

You have probably seen these, but Marshall Gunthrie of AH reviewed them here (without measurements) and Brent Butterworth reviewed them in the second link (with measurements!).
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rsl-speedwoofer-10s
https://hometheaterreview.com/rsl-speedwoofer-10s-subwoofer-reviewed/

Brent measured F3 at 29Hz.
Remember the lowest note on a bass is right around 40Hz, so your mid-20 objective might be asking for more than you realize! However, once room gain is added, it is reasonable that you would see mid 20's.

The beauty of dealing with RSL is you get to listen and see for yourself risk free!

Brent makes a good point about the Hsu VTF-mk3:


It currently is on sale for $435 shipped. Hsu subs are nice because you could tune it one way for movies and differently for music. The trade-off is risk free evaluation (unless you are close to California, I would guess return shipping on the Hsu at $65 to $75) and the Hsu's larger cabinet may be problematic for your room.

If I was in your shoes, I would probably try the Speedwoofer risk-free and if I felt like I was missing something important try the Hsu (or more likely regroup and reconsider my budget). However, I know I am happy enough without the deepest bass. Deep bass is nice for bragging rights and occasionally rattling the picture frames on the wall, but I spent enough time with built-in TV speakers that I believe something like the Speedwoofer 10S is damn fine for HT! You may have totally different ideas on HT!

HTH!

One thing that is nice about the VTF-1 mk3 is that the variable tuning on that sub actually makes a major performance difference, far more than with any other variable tuned sub out there. Most variable tuned subs lets you decide pretty deep bass and very deep bass. In the VTF-1 mk3, the choice is far more significant. You can have punchy mid-bass for music or deep bass for movies, but you can't have both at the same time. The mid-bass mode gives you a real SPL boost in a range where music can really benefit, and the extension mode gives deeper bass where movies really benefit.

Compare that to the practical effects of most variable tuned subs where the differences are a lot more slight. The differences between 15 Hz and 20 Hz is pretty subtle in practice, which is the ranges a lot of variable tuned subs trade in. If someone secretly applied a 20 Hz brickwall high-pass filter to any of our systems, I doubt any of us would notice for real world content. We would only ever catch it if we were playing different test tones or if we were A/Bing against a system that actually does deep bass.

 

[pewternhrata]

Got it today, Initial thoughts...mind blown. I'll post more after a few listening 'sessions'

 

[lovinthehd]

Got it today, Initial thoughts...mind blown. I'll post more after a few listening 'sessions'

Curious, what other subs do you have/have had?

 

[pewternhrata]

Curious, what other subs do you have/have had?

Most recent was a Logan 300, impressed but def kept me wanting more(bought bc it was cheap), replaced it with a Dayton 1200, it did good, pretty impressive for 120. It was pretty solid with movies but not soo much music. I've had a few rels and I miss everyone. My favorite was actually a jbl e250p. Never heard an hsu, I'm sure that one would take the cake. Svs has always caught my ear, but for 400 no way can I complain. I've had budget subs (klipsch, boston, jbl, jamo, a velodyne or 2)
I'll throw some movies through it as well as play with placement more, but for 400 I'm getting another.
I haven't had the luxury to own a $1k plus sub, I know from listening it's an entire new level, but sub $600 this one wins, hands down.

 

[EBN]

Nobody mentioned the 399$ costing Emotiva BasX S12. Brent Butterworth has reviewed & measured it.

- The BasX S12 has 2-3dB more output than the identically priced (but 25% smaller by volume) Speedwoofer 10S in the second octave of bass (40-63Hz), and about the same output in the bottom octave (20-31.5Hz).

- For $399, the Emotiva BasX S12 is a great buy. I don’t know of a sub its size with more output, and in the deepest bass it has a bit more oomph than its closest competitors. I think anyone shopping for a subwoofer at or near this price would be very happy with the BasX S12 -- especially if they like a little extra kick in the bottom end.

- For me, the BasX S12’s most obvious competitor is the Rogersound Labs (RSL) Speedwoofer 10S ($399). The RSL is my reference for affordable subwoofers because it sounds great, and its output is more like what I typically measure from $600 subs. The Speedwoofer 10S has a 350W amp, a 10” driver, and a cabinet with a volume about 25% less than the Emotiva sub’s. I compared the two at length, placing each in the same spot in turn and matching their levels.

Asking which of these two subs is better is like asking which is the better color, red or blue. The BasX S12 did have more output in the deepest bass frequencies, but it tended to exaggerate that output somewhat. I could generalize that the Speedwoofer 10S might be a better choice for an audiophile two-channel system, while the BasX S12 might be a better choice for a home theater, but your tastes might lead you to a different conclusion.

https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/812-emotiva-basx-s12-subwoofer

https://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1722:emotiva-basx-s12-subwoofer&catid=338&Itemid=349

 

[KEW]

Nobody mentioned the 399$ costing Emotiva BasX S12. Brent Butterworth has reviewed & measured it.

- The BasX S12 has 2-3dB more output than the identically priced (but 25% smaller by volume) Speedwoofer 10S in the second octave of bass (40-63Hz), and about the same output in the bottom octave (20-31.5Hz).

- For $399, the Emotiva BasX S12 is a great buy. I don’t know of a sub its size with more output, and in the deepest bass it has a bit more oomph than its closest competitors. I think anyone shopping for a subwoofer at or near this price would be very happy with the BasX S12 -- especially if they like a little extra kick in the bottom end.

- For me, the BasX S12’s most obvious competitor is the Rogersound Labs (RSL) Speedwoofer 10S ($399). The RSL is my reference for affordable subwoofers because it sounds great, and its output is more like what I typically measure from $600 subs. The Speedwoofer 10S has a 350W amp, a 10” driver, and a cabinet with a volume about 25% less than the Emotiva sub’s. I compared the two at length, placing each in the same spot in turn and matching their levels.

Asking which of these two subs is better is like asking which is the better color, red or blue. The BasX S12 did have more output in the deepest bass frequencies, but it tended to exaggerate that output somewhat. I could generalize that the Speedwoofer 10S might be a better choice for an audiophile two-channel system, while the BasX S12 might be a better choice for a home theater, but your tastes might lead you to a different conclusion.

https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/812-emotiva-basx-s12-subwoofer

https://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1722:emotiva-basx-s12-subwoofer&catid=338&Itemid=349

Thanks, that is an interesting post!

The last paragraph (quoted again below) reinforces a belief I have that too often this forum assigns too much importance to having the strongest and deepest bass you can afford:

Asking which of these two subs is better is like asking which is the better color, red or blue. The BasX S12 did have more output in the deepest bass frequencies, but it tended to exaggerate that output somewhat. I could generalize that the Speedwoofer 10S might be a better choice for an audiophile two-channel system, while the BasX S12 might be a better choice for a home theater, but your tastes might lead you to a different conclusion.

So, here we have Brent Butterworth (who has evaluated a lot of subs) saying that a $400 12" Sealed sub might have too much of the deepest bass frequencies to be the better choice for a music system!
By the most common standards of this forum, this would be considered a very weak sub! Roll off starts at 40Hz and is down 9dB at 20Hz (which does seem to indicate some built in DSP).

An expensive deep-hitting sub is a good option if it has enough tuning capability or if you are willing to invest the time and money into external tuning gear so it will work well for music, but if it will only be used for music, why should someone pay the cost of the lower frequencies only to eliminate them?

I do think the Hsu in the sealed mode (shown in the graph of ShadyJ's post above) would be fair competition and wish Brent had addressed it more directly.