My First Home Theatre - Seeking assistance with which AVR

S

Squigz

Audioholic Intern
Hello wonderful people of Audioholics forums :D
(I posted a similar thing in AVS Forums, but the discussion seems to be more about room layout there with little mention of AVRs. Please send help hahaha)

I'll present this with 3 sections of info. 1) To the point. 2) Background on why. 3) Details of the rest of the system and space.

1. Just get the point!:
  • I live in Australia! This is important, we have different availabilities here. Perth, Specifically.
  • I may or may not want 7.2.4. I definitely want 5.2.4.
  • We love watching Netflix and movies, though if I had a system that did it well I would love music listening too.
  • I can get a Yamaha RXV2085 - $1900 AUD (~1330USD). I can get a Mantraz SR6015 for $2580AUD (1800USD). Denons are out of stock everywhere for months.
  • I can't seem to find anywhere that has an older YamahaRXV3085 or RXA3080.
  • Refurbished models here aren't going for any cheaper than the price I've been given for the Mantraz RS6015.
  • I don't care for the Video capabilities of the receivers. I fully intend to run eArc from the TV and use the TV as my switching gear.

2. Why though?!:
  • Background:
    • I'm setting up my home theatre, and it's my first system since my Logitech Z5500s I have with my PC in another room (a PC speaker system. Great for what they are, but not even pretending to be HiFi).
    • I am not filthy rich, but I do have enough that "my budget" isn't a limiting factor. (Though want to keep funds in the [Apparently the M word is inappropriate] if I can). Really going for "best in class, stepping up would double price" kind of thing. Have decided on speakers but happy to have comments on my decision, could change it.
    • Main drive: As mentioned above we use a lot of streaming services. I want to finally be able to understand dialogue in shows without subtitles turned on!!! I listen to music a lot on my Logitech system, though that's because I love the background music while playing games or reading things on the internet.
  • Reasoning so far:
    • I have pre-wiring for rear surround or side (back corners), and rear atmos (back roof).
    • I am intending to get a 5.1.4 setup, with the hopes of upgrading to 7.X.4 if I come across excess funds and feel the desire to (I expect to want to try it out at some stage. Maybe if I upgrade my fronts and get a dedicated stereo amp for L/R, and shuffle everything around.
    • Some say 7.X.4 is negligibly better than 5.X.4 anyway... But I don't want to regret, always thinking "if only".
    • Feels a waste not using the pre-wiring for those (can route a little and use as sides if positioned slightly back from MLP though, might not be a waste).
  • Choices:
    • I was originally looking at the Denon X3700H for this, as it seems really popular and well suited to movie watching.
      • That's sold out, and even if it were not, getting it on a discount is tough is Aus. Usually around $2600 AUD.
      • I don't need the power of a X4700H I believe, not for the room this size.
    • Hefty discount on the discontinued Yamaha RXV2085.
      • On paper seems great.
        • Boasts AI audio manipulation to ensure everything is heard (though not sure if gimmick. Seems like audio version of Dolby Vision / HDR10+, could be good?).
        • It's only 9 channels of processing though (and 9 amps).
    • Less of a discount on a Mantraz SR6015.
      • 11 channel processing.
      • Similar W/ch as the Yamaha.
      • Higher max Wattage on power supply. But for a room my size I doubt I'll need it ever.

3. OK, but how can I give you any advice or opinions without knowing what you're pairing it with and where it's going? This is all just fluff and no numbers *rant rant rant*
  • Speakers
    • Wharfedale 12.4 fronts
    • Wharfedale 12.2 surrounds
    • Wharfedale 12.C centre
    • REL HT1205 Sub
  • Atmos?
    • I am on the fence about what to do for atmos.
    • I've managed to lock on some Wharfedale 300Ds for ~330AUD (230USD)
    • Seeing as how I have wiring for rear in or on roof atmos, why not go that route? (I hear there's a noticeable difference yeah?).
    • I am also tempted to get 4 corner mountable / roof mountable speakers and use them as atmos (angled towards MLP).
      • I can test this setup with a couple of flimsy but workable tripods until I get positioning right.
  • The room!
    • 2.81m (9'3") x 5.78m (18'11.5") x 2.585m (8'5.5")
    • Flat black walls and ceiling
    • Thick black carpet
    • Door opens roughly centre of one of the long walls
    • Surrounded by hallways except for a short wall which has an external window
    • Intended layout will be longer room, though have planned for short / wide room but seating will be quite far back
    • TV size: 75" Sony X85H
    • Couch Size: tbc. Flexible. Will be a 2 or 3 seater
      • 3 Seater would be 2.1m long. Leaving 350mm on either side between it and the walls
      • Sides will be space constrained
        • Hoping to put them behind the couch, slightly behind MLP. Dolby says it should be 90-110 degrees, and it can easily go 99 degrees or so in this space.
          • I have concerns that if they are pointed towards MLP and purposefully missing the closest listener, that said listener will hear reflections of sides more prominently than direct sides, thus have an inverted sides experience?
        • Could also put them further back like in the Auro setup, if only going 5.4? Not sure how this sounds with Dolby though.
      • There will be beanbags set up in front of MLP couch/ recliner. These will be over immersed in video and under immersed in audio. I know this.
    • I have also considered rotating the room and setting it up wide
      • 2 rows of seats become 1 long one
      • Sitting about 400mm from the back
      • Rear atmos speakers above seating position
      • Fronts about 46 degrees away vertically (if corner speakers for atmos, I am leaning corner / wall mount for now so I can easily change until I settle)
      • Not ideal but would have room for the sides that way. If I forgo the ability to have rears, I won't be able to fit any in that configuration anyway!
  • Squigz! There's no time to explain, I need more numbers!
    • I've attached a spreadsheet that is crudely working out angles to speakers given placements etc. Don't blame me if you can't understand it, it was made for me alone, but if you really want proof I'm taking into consideration the angles to each extreme seat and specifically MLP from speakers relative to room direction to ensure compliance with Dolby's specs, and also the angle to said seats from each base level speaker to ensure dispersion won't be a problem.
      • Apparently xlsx files aren't allowed to be uploaded, so you get a picture instead!


I need opinions from people who have experienced these before.
Is it worth 'future proofing' and going an 11 channel capable receiver? If I feel compelled to upgrade to 11 channels in 2-3 years time will there be a new shiny rock I want instead so future proofing now is pointless? (Receiver tech gets better).

What about brands? I've read here that the Yamaha's in the US are more expensive than Denons and Marantz. Here, it's the opposite, though Yamaha's current range are only the new AXA models and they're well above what I need (Yamaha's only available 11ch processor is the A6A, which is $4000 AUD (could likely get ~700 off of it. Still quite expensive)).
If Yamaha are amazing, should I fork out for the A6A? I hear it has issues though.

Again, I don't care for the Video capabilities of the receivers. I fully intend to run eArc from the TV and use the TV as my switching gear. I already have a smart home ready HDMI switch anyway if I run out of inputs on the TV.
 

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S

Squigz

Audioholic Intern
I thought I read the rules, I'll have to go over them again. Can we not mention.... certain financial commitments we might have.... because people will get upset at the comparative cost of the things primarily mentioned on these forums compared to their own commitments? :p Took me a bit to go through deleting and re-adding things to find the offending word :p
 
S

Squigz

Audioholic Intern
I'm also starting to consider (if possible) getting something capable of 11.2 processing with only 9.2 amps (like the Marantz, or a similar Denon, or a Yammy if I can actually find a 3085 or A3080 anywhere!! - and getting the wireless speaker solution for the rears (which I am assuming consume a channel, but not an amp as not physically connected but still need to be processed). If they are even capable of combining wired and wireless speakers in the same system?
That way, in the event we don't actually want the rear surrounds, we haven't wasted our money, we can move them to another room and enjoy them there, like the bedroom (needs a soundbar for the small TV), or my PC upstairs as long as stereo listening from the likes of a pair of Denon 150s or 250s will be an improvement over my Z5500 that lives there now (I'd say so, but again, have not heard one in person).
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I thought I read the rules, I'll have to go over them again. Can we not mention.... certain financial commitments we might have.... because people will get upset at the comparative cost of the things primarily mentioned on these forums compared to their own commitments?
That's likely just a restriction until you get your post count up. As you saw in your other thread budget, money or prices will have to come into play at some point, but it does look like you have a little bit to work with.

I'm still absorbing your first post but one thing that jumped out and bit me is the REL sub. Their offerings tend to be overpriced and underperforming. SVS might be available to you and in general they make much better subs for less. Tho I don't know how much they are in Australia. Monoprice Monolith are very good also if available.

Of your avr choices I really like my SR6011, an older version of the 6015. You'll have 11 channels of processing, independant sub outputs, better room correction (imo) with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and very precise control over your frequency response with the editor app. Mine is still going strong after 5 years and I have no desire or need to upgrade or replace it. It's going to offer much the same as the Denon 3700. They're made by the same company and share a lot of the same internals.

Curious what else might be available for speakers. I don't have anything against Wharfedale. I just don't know a lot about them. SVS make some really nice speakers too, but there are lots of others like KEF, Revel, JBL, etc.
 
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ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
TLDR

Unless you are really in a bind, this is the absolute worst time to buy an AVR or Processor. Whether you care about HDMI 2.1 or not.
By all accounts, the 2020 and 2021 Yamahas are not ready for prime time. The Denons are at least testing clean, and with the dongle they are giving owners, their HDMI is at least working as advertised.

I advise waiting if you can. Wait until new Yamahas get reviewed thoroughly with measurements, and until the firmware themselves into fulfilling their promises. Wait until Sound United releases their Denon and Marantz lineup next year.

If you cannot wait, I’d put my money on a denon 3700 to hold me over for a year or two and then upgrade… keeping the Denon for a second rig or backup device. ;)
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Welcome to AH,

If you can get the AVR-X4700H at a good price, I suggest that you pick one. Having a little bit more power than necessary is not a bad idea. Also, this receiver is less than 1 dB more powerful than the X3700H. That is merely noticeable and inaudible as a power increase.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Welcome to AH,

If you can get the AVR-X4700H at a good price, I suggest that you pick one. Having a little bit more power than necessary is not a bad idea. Also, this receiver is less than 1 dB more powerful than the X3700H. That is merely noticeable and inaudible as a power increase.
If he can get the 6015 for less than the 4700 I say grab that. It's unfortunate the 3700 is sold out where he is. I'd put the 6015 somewhere between the 3700 and 4700. Between 6015 and the 4700 I'd get the better priced of the 2.

Ryan brings up a solid point about some of the struggles with the new Yamahas. I'd straight avoid those until we see some reviews and they figure out what's going on.
 
S

Squigz

Audioholic Intern
That's likely just a restriction until you get your post count up. As you saw in your other thread budget, money or prices will have to come into play at some point, but it does look like you have a little bit to work with.
Ahh. Yeah. So far, anything that has the M word for home loan in it, I can't post haha.

I'm still absorbing your first post but one thing that jumped out and bit me is the REL sub. Their offerings tend to be overpriced and underperforming. SVS might be available to you and in general they make much better subs for less. Tho I don't know how much they are in Australia. Monoprice Monolith are very good also if available.
I'm getting the REL for $1550. Which is just shy of 1100USD. REL's have a great rep here among the (very small) group of people I know.

Of your avr choices I really like my SR6011, an older version of the 6015. You'll have 11 channels of processing, independant sub outputs, better room correction (imo) with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and very precise control over your frequency response with the editor app. Mine is still going strong after 5 years and I have no desire or need to upgrade or replace it. It's going to offer much the same as the Denon 3700. They're made by the same company and share a lot of the same internals.
I think my biggest concern is I got myself hyped for the Yamaha (when I realised I couldn't get a Denon), and then got more excited about it's AI live adaptation feature (though I haven't heard it functioning. I have no idea if it's any good at all. But dynamic HDR turned out to be a good thing for video, so why wouldn't this?). I'm also a sucker for smarts, being an automation engineer, it got my interest.

Curious what else might be available for speakers. I don't have anything against Wharfedale. I just don't know a lot about them. SVS make some really nice speakers too, but there are lots of others like KEF, Revel, JBL, etc.
This is the place I'm getting things though. They're price matching (or just giving damn good prices to start with). They don't have everything on their website, but all the different brands are there to give you an idea of what brands make it into Aus and what doesn't.
They also have a clearance section, and I'm eyeing off the Anthem MRX720, though only 7.2 of amps so I'll need to get a small power amp or powered speakers somewhere along the line, as I intend to go straight to 5.1.4. as soon as I organise what I'm doing height / overhead wise.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Ahh. Yeah. So far, anything that has the M word for home loan in it, I can't post haha.


I'm getting the REL for $1550. Which is just shy of 1100USD. REL's have a great rep here among the (very small) group of people I know.


I think my biggest concern is I got myself hyped for the Yamaha (when I realised I couldn't get a Denon), and then got more excited about it's AI live adaptation feature (though I haven't heard it functioning. I have no idea if it's any good at all. But dynamic HDR turned out to be a good thing for video, so why wouldn't this?). I'm also a sucker for smarts, being an automation engineer, it got my interest.


This is the place I'm getting things though. They're price matching (or just giving damn good prices to start with). They don't have everything on their website, but all the different brands are there to give you an idea of what brands make it into Aus and what doesn't.
They also have a clearance section, and I'm eyeing off the Anthem MRX720, though only 7.2 of amps so I'll need to get a small power amp or powered speakers somewhere along the line, as I intend to go straight to 5.1.4. as soon as I organise what I'm doing height / overhead wise.
West Coast indicate having the X3700H in stock. Had they forgotten to update their info?
 
S

Squigz

Audioholic Intern
TLDR

Unless you are really in a bind, this is the absolute worst time to buy an AVR or Processor. Whether you care about HDMI 2.1 or not.
By all accounts, the 2020 and 2021 Yamahas are not ready for prime time. The Denons are at least testing clean, and with the dongle they are giving owners, their HDMI is at least working as advertised.

I advise waiting if you can. Wait until new Yamahas get reviewed thoroughly with measurements, and until the firmware themselves into fulfilling their promises. Wait until Sound United releases their Denon and Marantz lineup next year.

If you cannot wait, I’d put my money on a denon 3700 to hold me over for a year or two and then upgrade… keeping the Denon for a second rig or backup device. ;)
I'm taking advantage of the new models being out, PLUS all the havoc around HDMI 2.1, that's lead to price drops (especially for Yamaha models, but it's lead to others following suit to compete).
If I could get a 2018 model, I'd be happy. I'm not interested in a current flagship, I don't need any of the bells or whistles that come with them, except for maybe better processors and DACs.

If he can get the 6015 for less than the 4700 I say grab that. It's unfortunate the 3700 is sold out where he is. I'd put the 6015 somewhere between the 3700 and 4700. Between 6015 and the 4700 I'd get the better priced of the 2.

Ryan brings up a solid point about some of the struggles with the new Yamahas. I'd straight avoid those until we see some reviews and they figure out what's going on.
Yeah, after posting this I read more about the AXA series, and it doesn't sound good. Plus from the parts of the 101 page thread about them I did read, they don't (on paper) perform any better than cheaper D/M units. Yammy seems to have really dropped the ball this time.
I've just seen that I can also get a Yamaha A3080 for around $3600, which is the same I've been quoted for the Marantz. So that's now on the list of contenders. It's in a store more of a drive away for me, but do-able.
If for some reason I want a Yamaha specifically which I really need to talk myself out of, as there is no basis for it hahaha.
 
S

Squigz

Audioholic Intern
West Coast indicate having the X3700H in stock. Had they forgotten to update their info?
Yes. I asked the same thing. Other stores across Aus show out of stock.
I beleve it is that they are still able to order them from their Denon Suppliers, Denon are still making the units. They're just heavily back ordered.
Where as other items removed from the website are discontinued and no longer available at all.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
This is the place I'm getting things though. They're price matching (or just giving damn good prices to start with). They don't have everything on their website, but all the different brands are there to give you an idea of what brands make it into Aus and what doesn't.
They also have a clearance section, and I'm eyeing off the Anthem MRX720, though only 7.2 of amps so I'll need to get a small power amp or powered speakers somewhere along the line, as I intend to go straight to 5.1.4. as soon as I organise what I'm doing height / overhead wise.
Oof... SVS look like the overpriced option down there!

I'm still looking through the site to see what they have, but I was a little shocked when I got to SVS subs. I guess it costs a lot to ship 'em over there. :oops:

Still, for not much more ($1294 apiece) I think the PB1000 Pro will outperform that REL. Both in extension and clean output. There's a persistent myth out there that sealed subs are better for music and it's simply not true of modern designs. Especially with a company as good as SVS. The only advantage with a sealed sub is smaller size. Everything else is a compromise.


I think my biggest concern is I got myself hyped for the Yamaha (when I realised I couldn't get a Denon), and then got more excited about it's AI live adaptation feature (though I haven't heard it functioning.
If Denon was your first choice then Marantz is the next closest thing. Features, performance and connectivity are virtually identical. Right now we have a huge thread discussing the new Yamahas and it sounds like things are a bit of a mess with them right now. I'd avoid or wait until we have some concrete reviews before considering them.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes. I asked the same thing. Other stores across Aus show out of stock.
I beleve it is that they are still able to order them from their Denon Suppliers, Denon are still making the units. They're just heavily back ordered.
Where as other items removed from the website are discontinued and no longer available at all.
If available the 3700 would be my first choice. They're usually priced a little better than Marantz (at least in the states) and are a great balance between features, number of channels, power and cost.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Oof... SVS look like the overpriced option down there!
Oh, wait a tic. Looks like the PB1000 Pro is listed for less than the REL HT/1205. If you're getting a discount that would work out nicely.


 
S

Squigz

Audioholic Intern
Oof... SVS look like the overpriced option down there!

I'm still looking through the site to see what they have, but I was a little shocked when I got to SVS subs. I guess it costs a lot to ship 'em over there. :oops:

Still, for not much more ($1294 apiece) I think the PB1000 Pro will outperform that REL. Both in extension and clean output. There's a persistent myth out there that sealed subs are better for music and it's simply not true of modern designs. Especially with a company as good as SVS. The only advantage with a sealed sub is smaller size. Everything else is a compromise.
Remember that's all in AUD. The REL 1205 is $1550 AUD. Usually around $2000, but again, they're discounting everything since I'm getting close to 10K worth of gear. Package deals and such :) Cannot afford for me to go elsewhere hahaha.
I have NO idea what's good and not, or what compares to what. I was originally asking for a Wharfedale sub (the S10 or something I think) because I came into this thinking that a like-branded sub was going to cross over from the speakers better. I was told that absolutely isn't the case and to get a sub from a brand that knows subs, and was offered the REL. 0 research has gone into it on my part, apart from my Dad saying REL are good, they only make subs and have survived a while doing so.
I am very open to suggestions, but don't really know how to start comparing them. I am certainly happy to pay more for something that's worth it. I know "worth it" is highly subjective and personal, so it's difficult. Especially when I haven't heard any of these myself and wouldn't know what to listen for if I did. Again, really aiming for a "best bang for your buck under ~7000USD, you wouldn't be able to appreciate 'better' just coming into it now anyways.

If Denon was your first choice then Marantz is the next closest thing. Features, performance and connectivity are virtually identical. Right now we have a huge thread discussing the new Yamahas and it sounds like things are a bit of a mess with them right now. I'd avoid or wait until we have some concrete reviews before considering them.
If available the 3700 would be my first choice. They're usually priced a little better than Marantz (at least in the states) and are a great balance between features, number of channels, power and cost.
Yeah, Denon were my first choice, from reading and seeing reviews and matchups, for exactly that reason. I just accidentally hyped myself for the Yamaha, people say pretty good things about them too.

The Wharfedales are said to be slightly warm but fairly neutral. Mantraz would certainly pair well with them for music, but when it comes to movies and shows, or would it be too.. what's the word... analytical? We sometimes binge movies or watch an entire season of a show / anime. My ears are sensitive (stupid things) at the best of times, so trying to avoid fatigue.

Curious what else might be available for speakers. I don't have anything against Wharfedale. I just don't know a lot about them. SVS make some really nice speakers too, but there are lots of others like KEF, Revel, JBL, etc.
As for why Wharfedales - I went and started with a google of "best entry level speakers for surround sound" (great way to find accurate info yeah hahahaha *sarcasm*. Anywho, I went down a few rabbit holes, and ended up settling on those because, not only could I get them for a similar price to the Diamond 11 series (previous generation, few years old now) on discontinued sale (so, around 30% off in some cases. I got the High Floor Standing Model 12.4 for around 1100USD the pair); but their closest contenders were the ELACs. The ELAC Debut 2.0 5.2 models were always closely compared to the Wharfedale Diamond 11 models, and reviews always said it was a close battle, and went either way depending on viewing / listening preferences. But the Wharfedale Diamond 12 of this year have overhauled their design and independent reviews I've seen say it's definitely a marked improvement, some going so far as to say they'd replace easily twice-as-expensive systems with them. Where as the same improvements haven't been said about the ELACs. So it seemed an obvious choice.
I know Wharfedale hasn't been as overly popular as it was years ago, but it was enough to sell me on it (without being able to actually go in store and HEAR anything).

That's right, I haven't heard or even seen any of this equipment in person, at ALL. Which is really idiotic, I know. But:
1) I'll always research before and after purchasing anything, and wonder "what if" or "if I had have known", regardless of if I am happy with my purchase or not (a bad habit I need to get out of because it only leads to disappointment).
2) I'll end up "wow'd" by anything I get, seeing as how I am coming from Logitech PC speakers, so I'm instead satisfying point 1 now by doing research and knowing I am at least theoretically getting something well worth it.
3) I'm working away so observing in person is hard. Very hard. Even talking is hard, because I'm working nightshift.
4) I was taking advantage of Black Friday deals that had the Wharfedales at said discount.
5) I could have probably talked any salesman into giving me the same discount at a later date, but I got hyped and am trying to have it all set up for Christmas, as my family hasn't seen my new house yes (is a year old and we still haven't had a proper housewarming with family!) so I want to be able to show it off :D

Potentially still a terrible idea to be making such large purchases without having heard, but that's difficult.
Perth, where I live, is the smaller big-city (it's small) of WA. It's the biggest city in Western Australia, but it's still small compared to cities in other states, which are small compared to cities elsewhere in the world. Stores will only have 1 surround sound setup on display and able to be used, and it's primary function will be to sell you the complete theatre package with projector and screen, rather than focusing on the audio solution.
Here in Aus, we can only typically send something back to the store if it is broken, unfit for purpose (if we asked for something that could do X in store, and it can't), or if it is still in it's unopened box completely sealed. So we can't take things home and try them for a month like seems to be the usual thing in The States.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Yes. I asked the same thing. Other stores across Aus show out of stock.
I beleve it is that they are still able to order them from their Denon Suppliers, Denon are still making the units. They're just heavily back ordered.
Where as other items removed from the website are discontinued and no longer available at all.
I refer you to the above post#7. Would West Coast stock one X4700H as this product is strongly suggested.
 
S

Squigz

Audioholic Intern
I refer you to the above post#7. Would West Coast stock one X4700H as this product is strongly suggested.
I'll have to send them an email (I sleep before they start work) and ask.
If they do, what would I be gaining from spending $500 more on a X4700H vs the SR6015?
I hear they're warmer so better for movies and long watching as I've said I will be doing. Or with room correction is this negligible?

Again, also keeping in mind that I have no interest in HDMI2.1 or 8K and if I did I would be using eArc from my TV anyway. I know everyone wants to say "but it's an important feature, make sure you get something that's doing it right" but I honestly couldn't care less. If I could get a couple hundred off a model that had the parts responsible for that completely broken, I'd jump on it without second thought.

I'll shoot off an email, along with asking about alternative subs, and we'll see :D


That said, do you know if I will be able to use the wireless speakers (Denon Home Series) as additional surrounds? The deal with free Denon Home speakers is happening in Aus too, and I might be able to score 1 or 2 of those rather than getting the price knocked down - which would end up cheaper than getting an power amp + rear speakers or powered rears (unless there's $300USD a pair powered speakers that will be all round better).
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
This caught my eye particularly: "The Wharfedales are said to be slightly warm but fairly neutral. Mantraz would certainly pair well with them for music, but when it comes to movies and shows, or would it be too.. what's the word... analytical? We sometimes binge movies or watch an entire season of a show / anime. My ears are sensitive (stupid things) at the best of times, so trying to avoid fatigue"

Pretty much nonsense that an avr will have some sort of warm/bright attributes etc like a speaker might. All the avrs you're mentioning are going to be neutral except for their dsp, and even then the descriptors like warm/bright don't work for that either, the dsp will just be somewhat different implementations but lots of similarity there as well, think of it more as slightly different flavors.

The speakers and your room will be the greatest influence on what you hear, particularly speakers when it comes to listening fatigue. Have no idea about Wharfedale, I've never encountered them personally but a glance at the center makes me wonder whether they have a better offering (preferably a 3-way version with larger drivers). A real shame if the store can't demo the speakers, altho it would be better to demo in your own room than many retailer's....

The Rel 1205 is one of their more reasonably priced subs but its performance/spec still isn't competitive with other choices we have here in the US particularly. Rel's simply got a head start IMO, much of their reputation comes from marketing to particularly the 2ch crowd and simply being around longer rather than any actual performance advantage. Since your primary purpose is movies I'd definitely consider more a ported sub like the PB1000 for the superior low end performance that design brings (and will be just fine "for music" at the same time).
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Oh, as to video capabilities of an avr...mostly avrs are used to just pass thru video signals, processing of video in an avr is more for older/legacy tech.
AVRs IMO do make better switching centers and offer more audio capabilities than most tvs, too and come with no annoyances brought on by using HDMI-CEC featurtes like ARC (altho eARC supposedly has less issues). Streaming from a tv itself is also limited over time, generally better to move that to an external box/service.
 
S

Squigz

Audioholic Intern
This caught my eye particularly: "The Wharfedales are said to be slightly warm but fairly neutral. Mantraz would certainly pair well with them for music, but when it comes to movies and shows, or would it be too.. what's the word... analytical? We sometimes binge movies or watch an entire season of a show / anime. My ears are sensitive (stupid things) at the best of times, so trying to avoid fatigue"

Pretty much nonsense that an avr will have some sort of warm/bright attributes etc like a speaker might. All the avrs you're mentioning are going to be neutral except for their dsp, and even then the descriptors like warm/bright don't work for that either, the dsp will just be somewhat different implementations but lots of similarity there as well, think of it more as slightly different flavors.

The speakers and your room will be the greatest influence on what you hear, particularly speakers when it comes to listening fatigue. Have no idea about Wharfedale, I've never encountered them personally but a glance at the center makes me wonder whether they have a better offering (preferably a 3-way version with larger drivers). A real shame if the store can't demo the speakers, altho it would be better to demo in your own room than many retailer's....
Ahh, thanks for that. Can you tell I've only stared reading and thinking about any of this a week ago? hahaha. Happy to be corrected. Keep it coming :D
The only thought that went in prior is running my own calcs to determine room dimensions to minimise standing waves at expected angles... Only to find out that all that's been done before and I could have borrowed someone else's hard work to get my numbers. It was a fun exercise anyway!

So, where's all this I hear about "Denon and Maratz are practically the same except Denon is better for movies because it's warmer / more bass heavy, and Maratz is better for music". It's everywhere on the internet!

The Rel 1205 is one of their more reasonably priced subs but its performance/spec still isn't competitive with other choices we have here in the US particularly. Rel's simply got a head start IMO, much of their reputation comes from marketing to particularly the 2ch crowd and simply being around longer rather than any actual performance advantage. Since your primary purpose is movies I'd definitely consider more a ported sub like the PB1000 for the superior low end performance that design brings (and will be just fine "for music" at the same time).
Yeah, a quick search on them revealed LOTS of advertising without actual numbers listed in specs, and then forums saying they're all talk and no show compared to a lot of the competition, especially in the last few years.
The 1205 seems to still be quite popular though.
I only need "just fine" for music. I don't listen to Jazz. Maybe I'll start? but then as my preferences evolve, so will my setup. Gotta start with where I'm at now!

Are you able to give me at least your understanding of ported vs not ported subs? Again, only a week's worth of knowledge, and I'm sitting here going "OK, seems all good speakers that aren't crappy PC quality are ported. That makes sense, air needs to move. Blocking air from moving means drivers can't actuate, so it stifles sound. Certain frequencies Might make it out like higher ones because they are fast moving, and quickly put back in neutral 'undriven' position by air pressure inside. Lower frequencies have a harder time moving the driver enough because less speed = less inertia so they struggle fighting the air pressure".
That's what my engineer brain that has to come up for a reason for everything I see - came up with. And it makes sense to me.
Backed up by all the PC speaker surround kits I've seen and soundbar+sub combos having ported subs, they need it.
And now, unported subs (specifically for low frequencies)? Wha? I didn't even NOTICE it wasn't ported until pointed out here, I didn't consider a sub could function if airflow wasn't allowed.
 
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