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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Make sure your closer sub is on the sub1 output on denon and the two distant subs are on sub2. It was a bug in app that messed up the distances if sub2 is closer. Not sure if it has been fixed or not. It was reported many times in AVS thread.
Example - https://www.avsforum.com/threads/multeq-editor-new-app-for-denon-marantz-av-receivers-pre-pros.2806249/page-314#post-59700878
Thank you for the link, but we don't really know if the bug is with the App or the AVR. Too bad I am so busy with others thing otherwise I would love to do some tests to confirm a few things. I have the everything except time at the moment.:)
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I want to use the app but the app is giving me different results from Audyssey without app with sub volume and my rear sub distance
You don't know which one is right though, we can't draw a conclusion based on tape measurements. Audyssey explained that many times.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I’ll have time today so I’ll switch and see
I would strongly suggest you try the following combinations:

1) Connect the two front subs together as Sub 1 and the two rear subs as sub 2.
2) Same as above but reverse Sub1 and Sub2.

If I remember right, you currently have the front left and rear left together as one, and front right and rear right as the other, depending on your room/placement, Audyssey may have trouble dealing with such configuration but it may do better with 1) than 2), or vice versa.

The trouble is, unless you check the actual results with REW or similar software, you can't really tell reliably by ears either.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
If the subs are ported, it is usually better to run them without the ports plugged. The important thing is then, before you run Audyssey, you should make sure the sub(s) ports are NOT plugged.

If you plugged them, ran Audyssey, and then unplugged them then whatever EQ Audyssey applied will not longer be valid/optimum.
Peng, HSU recommends plugging 1 port and using the EQ 1 setting for calibration.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Peng, HSU recommends plugging 1 port and using the EQ 1 setting for calibration.
As I mentioned before, sure if they were designed that way for optimum performance, but did they say after calibration you should do something different? I hope not because it wouldn't make logical sense don't you think?

Anyway, I would read up on theirs, just curious what they have to say.

Okay, they said in the FAQ the following:

"Generally the auto EQ in receivers are getting better and better, and it's usually beneficial to use them. One general guideline for using the auto EQ for the subwoofer - set the subwoofer for the lowest extension and flattest response so the EQ compensates for the room acoustics alone. e.g. with our VTF series subwoofer, set the subwoofer to one port open, EQ1, and Q=0.7. This is the flattest response mode. The EQ will then correct for the room effects. After EQ, you can select other operating modes for the subwoofer - two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.3, etc."

So their last sentence basically tell you to go ahead and make those changes to your "taste". To me, if you have the App, it is far better to use the App to find your favorite target curve. Otherwise, imo you may are to some extent shooting in the dark, unless you run REW and willing to spend a lot of time playing around until you get the smoothest possible response that suits your taste. Once "taste" is involved, then there isn't much right or wrong any more.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
As I mentioned before, sure if they were designed that way for optimum performance, but did they say after calibration you should do something different? I hope not because it wouldn't make logical sense don't you think?

Anyway, I would read up on theirs, just curious what they have to say.
I run correction, measure with REW and adjust all with 1 port plugged, eq 1. After everything is dialed in and I'm done calibrating I'll pull the plug and switch to eq 2 for the bump in mid bass output.

06-22-20 EQ1 v EQ2.jpg
06-22-20 DEQ RLO EQ1.jpg
06-22-20 DEQ RLO EQ2.jpg
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I think the idea is to dial them in accurately with the deepest possible extension, then you can use the various tuning options offered by the VTF series to tailor the sound the way you like it.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I run correction, measure with REW and adjust all with 1 port plugged, eq 1. After everything is dialed in and I'm done calibrating I'll pull the plug and switch to eq 2 for the bump in mid bass output.

View attachment 39892View attachment 39893View attachment 39894
Again, you have REW, so you know if it messed up with something else, nothing wrong with that because then you would do something else to counter any ill effects. The thing is, plugging and opening ports don't just change the magnitude of the output, it also affects the phases. When I say logical, I mean:

Let's say Audyssey created a set of filters based on the data collected with one port plugged eq1, call it filter set A, now after that you open the port and go with eq2 on the sub, so now Audyssey filter A will be dealer with the magnitude and phase response of basically a different sub albeit similar because it is the same sub just with altered FR and PR characteristics. So surely it would still work better than with no Audyssey EQ, but you can understand the results will no longer be optimum. Again, since you run Audyssey, if your don't like the changed outcome, you can do something else manually to bring it back to optimum, and still get the boosts due to the opened port and eq2. Also, by then you have reverted from targeting accuracy, to suiting personal taste.

It is like amplifier design, everyone has different taste, so the amp designer/manufacturer should design/build their amps for accuracy, and leave any customization efforts to the user. Same here with room EQ, EQ for accuracy first, and then make changes to suit individual taste. Just that it seems more logical for me to use the App because you can do a lot more than just opening a port and applying the sub's EQ that is fixed. As always, once individual tast/preference kicks in, ymmv will apply.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I think the idea is to dial them in accurately with the deepest possible extension, then you can use the various tuning options offered by the VTF series to tailor the sound the way you like it.
Yes we are saying the same thing, just out of sync a little..:)
 
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primetimeguy

Audiophyte
Thank you for the link, but we don't really know if the bug is with the App or the AVR. Too bad I am so busy with others thing otherwise I would love to do some tests to confirm a few things. I have the everything except time at the moment.:)
I agree, I never tested myself but have been using the app and following that thread for years. There are multiple instances of this issue and it was resolved by swapping the preouts. I don't recall anyone ever having the issue, trying this workaround, and not having it be resolved.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I agree, I never tested myself but have been using the app and following that thread for years. There are multiple instances of this issue and it was resolved by swapping the preouts. I don't recall anyone ever having the issue, trying this workaround, and not having it be resolved.
As I said I agreed it was a bug, but my point was, how would you know the App has the bug and not the receiver? Again, let's don't go by tape measurements that sort of have been debunked. Can you point me to the post(s) that demonstrated how it was determined that the App was wrong? As it is now I think it could be the App, the receiver, or both.
 
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primetimeguy

Audiophyte
As I said I agreed it was a bug, but my point was, how would you know the App has the bug and not the receiver? Again, let's don't go by tape measurements that sort of have been debunked. Can you point me to the post(s) that demonstrated how it was determined that the App was wrong? As it is now I think it could be the App, the receiver, or both.
Agree tape measured distance doesn't matter at all. I guess it could be that the issue is with the receiver. Without searching for all of the reports of the issue, my guess is they are not all with the same receiver. So if it happens with multiple receiver models it suggests the app is the issue but not definitive.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Agree tape measured distance doesn't matter at all. I guess it could be that the issue is with the receiver. Without searching for all of the reports of the issue, my guess is they are not all with the same receiver. So if it happens with multiple receiver models it suggests the app is the issue but not definitive.
I opened a ticket with Audyssey support, but I doubt I would get a detailed answer as I have seen them providing a very brief response and advise people to conduct D+M for the App support. I did not mention a bug, to avoid getting anyone defensive, but just ask why the big difference in the distance settings.

 

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