ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
From a minor recommendation standpoint, you should level match your two front subs so the combined output matches the output of the rear. For Audyssey's purpose, that would would be ~73dB. ;)

Beyond that, I am surprised by the fact only the single Sub is being treated differently by Audyssey. I suspect there is a reason that may well have to do with the dual fronts on a single channel. Unfortunately, I am not certain what is causing it.

Considering you are possibly deep diving into the world of REW, it may be advisable to consider adding the MiniDSP 2x4 to the party.
It is an added expense, and up to you to decide whether to go for it. I think the HD version is generally the way to go, if you choose to.
In general, I wouldn't recommend this lightly, but without seeing more of your room, I have a feeling (just based on what I've read) that you need the help this will give in properly integrating all three subs.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
From a minor recommendation standpoint, you should level match your two front subs so the combined output matches the output of the rear. For Audyssey's purpose, that would would be ~73dB. ;)

Beyond that, I am surprised by the fact only the single Sub is being treated differently by Audyssey. I suspect there is a reason that may well have to do with the dual fronts on a single channel. Unfortunately, I am not certain what is causing it.

Considering you are possibly deep diving into the world of REW, it may be advisable to consider adding the MiniDSP 2x4 to the party.
It is an added expense, and up to you to decide whether to go for it. I think the HD version is generally the way to go, if you choose to.
In general, I wouldn't recommend this lightly, but without seeing more of your room, I have a feeling (just based on what I've read) that you need the help this will give in properly integrating all three subs.
I would definitely stick with the HD version. With the HD, at least you get 2 V output, not great but good enough. Still, afaic, the need for minidsp is overrated, for those who can use the Editor App anyway. I would go as far as to say it would "a waste of money" in some cases. It would also trap more heat in the area, and cluttering the wiring up for no good reason.

It may help in Reckel's case though because then he could try manually time aligned the subs, two in a group first and then Audyssey can time aligned the grouped two. The minidsp can do a better/easier job than to do it manually without.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I would definitely stick with the HD version. With the HD, at least you get 2 V output, not great but good enough. Still, afaic, the need for minidsp is overrated, for those who can use the Editor App anyway. I would go as far as to say it would "a waste of money" in some cases. It would also trap more heat in the area, and cluttering the wiring up for no good reason.

It may help in Reckel's case though because then he could try manually time aligned the subs, two in a group first and then Audyssey can time aligned the grouped two. The minidsp can do a better/easier job than to do it manually without.
Yeah, I think you can achieve the same results using the app with ratbuddyssey as you can with a mini, but it's a little more cumbersome. If the app were available when I bought one I probably wouldn't have gotten the mini. That said, I do prefer using it over the app. Currently I use both. Mini on my subs and the app for my main speakers.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Yeah, I think you can achieve the same results using the app with ratbuddyssey as you can with a mini, but it's a little more cumbersome. If the app were available when I bought the mini I probably wouldn't have gotten the mini. That said, I do prefer using the mini.
I would think using the mini with Audssyssey as I alluded to earlier would not only be cumbersome but also time consuming because there is a learning curve. Not sure about you but if I were to do it again I am sure I would have to spend a couple hours to recap. It is not going to be easy for a beginner.

Edit: Two bad Audyssey has not yet offered a way to time aligned the two front subs+two rear subs scenario, leaving a gap for the minidsp to fill I guess.:D I have 5 subs, but for that reason, I only use the two front subs with the sub outs 1&2, and use the other 3 directly with the surround and surround back speakers.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I would think using the mini with Audssyssey as I alluded to earlier would not only be cumbersome but also time consuming because there is a learning curve. Not sure about you but if I were to do it again I am sure I would have to spend a couple hours to recap. It is not going to be easy for a beginner.
Yeah, learning both is even more cumbersome. Totally agree. That's why I say if I were to do it over and the app were available I most likely wouldn't have gotten the mini.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
From a minor recommendation standpoint, you should level match your two front subs so the combined output matches the output of the rear. For Audyssey's purpose, that would would be ~73dB. ;)

Beyond that, I am surprised by the fact only the single Sub is being treated differently by Audyssey. I suspect there is a reason that may well have to do with the dual fronts on a single channel. Unfortunately, I am not certain what is causing it.

Considering you are possibly deep diving into the world of REW, it may be advisable to consider adding the MiniDSP 2x4 to the party.
It is an added expense, and up to you to decide whether to go for it. I think the HD version is generally the way to go, if you choose to.
In general, I wouldn't recommend this lightly, but without seeing more of your room, I have a feeling (just based on what I've read) that you need the help this will give in properly integrating all three subs.
Yea I don’t get it. When I run audyssey without the app, it’s sets my rear subs distance correctly, 5.2ft and with app is 11.8ft. The volumes I’m not understanding either. To go from -10 for fronts and rear without app to -7.5 and-6.5 when I haven’t touched the gain knobs.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
And the pics of my basement are on here, I found them in the subwoofers thread from 2-3yrs ago. Type 4uls-mk2’s vs 4pb-2000s in search threads, the pics are on page 7 of that thread. Idk how to put pics on here so I had to email lovin and he posted them
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
I just got up but I’m going to play around with it tonight for awhile.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Yea I don’t get it. When I run audyssey without the app, it’s sets my rear subs distance correctly, 5.2ft and with app is 11.8ft. The volumes I’m not understanding either. To go from -10 for fronts and rear without app to -7.5 and-6.5 when I haven’t touched the gain knobs.
5.2 ft may not be "correct" because for subwoofers, measuring tape can only measure physical distance. However, there is no way the AVR run audyssey vs the App run Audyssey should not differ by that much. Some must have to change. Unfortunately there is no short cut, you have to verify it by running Audyssey again without using the App and using the App. And for the purpose of apple to apple comparison, just use one position, and then compare the results.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
5.2 ft may not be "correct" because for subwoofers, measuring tape can only measure physical distance. However, there is no way the AVR run audyssey vs the App run Audyssey should not differ by that much. Some must have to change. Unfortunately there is no short cut, you have to verify it by running Audyssey again without using the App and using the App. And for the purpose of apple to apple comparison, just use one position, and then compare the results.
I’m running now. How do I do just one position
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I’m running now. How do I do just one position
I suppose it would want to run at least 3 positions, not sure I have never tried that. You can always cheat, just pretend you have move the mic and just press next position. If it won't let you do just one, then try 2 and then 3. I am quite sure if will let you stop at 3 positions. This is the only way to make sure the mic is in the exact same position, when comparing the AVR Vs App.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
I suppose it would want to run at least 3 positions, not sure I have never tried that. You can always cheat, just pretend you have move the mic and just press next position. If it won't let you do just one, then try 2 and then 3. I am quite sure if will let you stop at 3 positions. This is the only way to make sure the mic is in the exact same position, when comparing the AVR Vs App.
I’m almost done with the 8. I lowered the subs a little so I’ll let you know
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Yea I don’t get it. When I run audyssey without the app, it’s sets my rear subs distance correctly, 5.2ft and with app is 11.8ft. The volumes I’m not understanding either. To go from -10 for fronts and rear without app to -7.5 and-6.5 when I haven’t touched the gain knobs.
This stuff gets confusing fast so I want to start with just a couple of clarifications. Anytime I type "calibration", "calibrating" or "room correction" I'm referring to Audyssey. When I say "sweep" or "measure" I'm referring to REW. I look a it like "we're using REW and the UMIK to measure the results of Audyssey's calibration". Audyssey does also "measure", but for the sake of avoiding confusion I won't be using it that way for this conversation. I think we ran into some minor confusion about that yesterday.

As far as we know right now, you've done one calibration without the app, and twice now with the app? Are both calibrations with the app consistent with each other?

When you first ran Audyssey it should have prompted you to adjust the gains on that back of your subs to level match. How did you handle the front 2? That just hit me. I only have 2, they're both up front and have their own preouts so they're independently level matched using Audyssey. You have 2 on one and 1 on the other. It just occurred to me that I've never attempted this myself and am now curious how you level matched the front 2. I don't know how much that matters, if at all, but I'm interested to find out. @shadyJ, @lovinthehd or @William Lemmerhirt might be able to help shed some light on that for us.

Now in that vein next time you run Audyssey I would maybe purposely turn the gains down on all your subs so that Audyssey prompts you to readjust them until the pointer is in the green again. Sort of a fresh start. Maybe even do a soft reset.

HSU does recommend when calibrating those subs to do it with a single port open, EQ 1, Q .7. That's a must. After I run room correction and do all my tweaking I pull the port plug, run both ports open, EQ 2 and I've forgotten to do that a few times. I had to scrap what I had done and start all over with the proper settings. I keep with HSU recommended settings for sweeps with REW too when measuring.

Ohhh... check your phase switch too. That's a toggle switch and it's really easy to bump. It should be 0°. In fact, double check all your switches and knobs on all of your subs and make sure that your settings are in line with HSU recommendations. Crossover toggle "out" (bypasses your sub's filter so you can use your AVR's bass management), Q setting, EQ setting, all of it.

That's all I got for now, lol. Once you get set up and start measuring we can zero in closer on what's going on.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
It set my front subs again to 12.8ft and my rear to 5.2ft. The volumes are -6.5 for fronts and for the rear
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I’m running now. How do I do just one position
I think the more positions you use the more accurate your correction will be. That's why I'm so careful about following the pattern and consistently placing the mic in the same spot(s) at ear level every time I calibrate. It's tedious and I want to do it as few times as necessary, lol. Deviating from the pattern or stopping with 3 one time, then 8 the next may result with inconsistencies.
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
This stuff gets confusing fast so I want to start with just a couple of clarifications. Anytime I type "calibration", "calibrating" or "room correction" I'm referring to Audyssey. When I say "sweep" or "measure" I'm referring to REW. I look a it like "we're using REW and the UMIK to measure the results of Audyssey's calibration". Audyssey does also "measure", but for the sake of avoiding confusion I won't be using it that way for this conversation. I think we ran into some minor confusion about that yesterday.

As far as we know right now, you've done one calibration without the app, and twice now with the app? Are both calibrations with the app consistent with each other?

When you first ran Audyssey it should have prompted you to adjust the gains on that back of your subs to level match. How did you handle the front 2? That just hit me. I only have 2, they're both up front and have their own preouts so they're independently level matched using Audyssey. You have 2 on one and 1 on the other. It just occurred to me that I've never attempted this myself and am now curious how you level matched the front 2. I don't know how much that matters, if at all, but I'm interested to find out. @shadyJ, @lovinthehd or @William Lemmerhirt might be able to help shed some light on that for us.

Now in that vein next time you run Audyssey I would maybe purposely turn the gains down on all your subs so that Audyssey prompts you to readjust them until the pointer is in the green again. Sort of a fresh start. Maybe even do a soft reset.

HSU does recommend when calibrating those subs to do it with a single port open, EQ 1, Q .7. That's a must. After I run room correction and do all my tweaking I pull the port plug, run both ports open, EQ 2 and I've forgotten to do that a few times. I had to scrap what I had done and start all over with the proper settings. I keep with HSU recommended settings for sweeps with REW too when measuring.

Ohhh... check your phase switch too. That's a toggle switch and it's really easy to bump. It should be 0°. In fact, double check all your switches and knobs on all of your subs and make sure that your settings are in line with HSU recommendations. Crossover toggle "out" (bypasses your sub's filter so you can use your AVR's bass management), Q setting, EQ setting, all of it.

That's all I got for now, lol. Once you get set up and start measuring we can zero in closer on what's going on.
Yea that’s how I have the subs setup with one port open eq1 q7 when I run audyssey. I checked everything before I ran to make sure nothing was moved.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
It set my front subs again to 12.8ft and my rear to 5.2ft. The volumes are -6.5 for fronts and for the rear
Was that with the app and is it consistent with the other times you used the app? Or is this one more consistent with your no-app calibration?
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Was that with the app and is it consistent with the other times you used the app? Or is this one more consistent with your no-app calibration?
Without app and it’s consistently the same without app but with app it was consistent too just with subs volume lower and the rear sub distance different
 
R

Reckel

Senior Audioholic
Was that with the app and is it consistent with the other times you used the app? Or is this one more consistent with your no-app calibration?
I sent you a message in a conversation
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I think the more positions you use the more accurate your correction will be. That's why I'm so careful about following the pattern and consistently placing the mic in the same spot(s) at ear level every time I calibrate. It's tedious and I want to do it as few times as necessary, lol. Deviating from the pattern or stopping with 3 one time, then 8 the next may result with inconsistencies.
I don't think he is comparing the EQ results but the distances and volume. I suggested he leave the mic in one position, to make sure the differences were due to the mic not being in the exact same position.

I have run Audyssey with the AVR and with the app many times, and have never experience the kind of differences he's getting. Something is not right, obviously..
 

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top