Motion 30 Center Channel sounds muffled/dull out of one of the speakers.

S

sajohnson504

Audiophyte
First off, I have to say I really appreciate this site, lots of great information!

I am currently upgrading my current home theater and a couple weeks ago I purchased the Motion 40 towers and a Motion 30 Center Channel on closeout. I’m happy about the towers but, my Motion 30 center channel sounds dull/muffled out of one of its speakers. The Motion 30 has (3) speakers. They consist of (2) 5.5” drivers and a Motion tweeter. The driver on the left sounds clear when I put my ear to it but the one on the right isn’t as loud and isn’t clear. It sounds dull /muffled.
Current system information:
  • Yamaha HTR-5250 receiver running 5.1 setup
  • Motion 40 L/R
  • Motion 30 Center
  • NS-A1638 (my old towers used as L/R rear
  • SW-4 Subwoofer (on the list to be replaced)
  • New wire to the fronts and center BJC 12 with spade Lugs
  • New Subwoofer Cable BJC LC-1
Here is what I have done to problem solve for the Motion 30
  • Plugged in old center (NS-AC143) with old wire to see if it had same issue. It did not, center sounded clearer than Motion 30
  • Using same old center wire connected the Motion 30. The right driver still sounded muffled, no change
  • Put receiver into 2ch mode and disconnected one tower and hooked Motion 30 to that wire. Right driver still sounded muffled.
These speakers are new, and I have about 55-60 hours on them. Does this have anything to do with a break-in period?
The specs on the HTR-5250 look better than I expected when I looked them up. It looks like the receiver can drive (4) ohm speakers and has enough wattage. Thoughts on this? I do plan on purchasing a Denon AVR-x4500h or maybe even the x3600h just waiting to see what happens on Cyber Monday.
I do plan to call support on this but wanted to reach out to the forum first. Any and all thoughts, suggestions are welcome!

Thanks in advance!
 
L

Leemix

Senior Audioholic
Have you re-run the auto setup?
Does it sound wrong where you sit or only with your ear to the driver?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
Speaker break in is largely a myth. Speakers are usually "broken in" after the first couple minutes.

Could be as simple as having the tweeter at ear height. I know ribbon tweeters are a little more picky about that than regular dome tweeters. Especially vertical dispersion. Got any pics of your setup? How do you have it placed? If it's higher or lower than ear height it's going to have an effect. Does it sound bad when you're at your seating position or is this just something you notice when you put your ear close?
 
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S

sajohnson504

Audiophyte
Have you re-run the auto setup?
Does it sound wrong where you sit or only with your ear to the driver?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
No auto setup on this old receiver, but I did manually go through the setting and adjust multiple settings to see if it made a difference. I will reset the receiver to factory and manually set it up again.

I first noticed the sound when I sat down to watch a movie a couple nights ago. I was have troubles hearing/understanding what people were saying, it just sounded muffled. So, I got up and went over to the center and put my ear in front of each speaker and could notice that the left side was louder and more clear.
 
L

Leemix

Senior Audioholic
No auto setup on this old receiver, but I did manually go through the setting and adjust multiple settings to see if it made a difference. I will reset the receiver to factory and manually set it up again.

I first noticed the sound when I sat down to watch a movie a couple nights ago. I was have troubles hearing/understanding what people were saying, it just sounded muffled. So, I got up and went over to the center and put my ear in front of each speaker and could notice that the left side was louder and more clear.
Did you change the crossover for the center from before?
Is it in the same place and angled to your ear height?

If everything is like it was/is supposed to be then its possible there is something wrong with it.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
Given that you were using your centre without any issues and then had an issue rear up out of no where it’s possible the woofer is pooched.

If the speaker wire was incorrectly connected both speakers would be equally weak.

Second you used a second output of your amp to test your centre with the same result so we can “eliminate” the amp and AVR as the source of your centre issue!

The centre channel is the common denominator in this issue!

Now this might be overthinking but the passive crossover inside your centre channel may have only split the signal path for the good speaker and exposed the problem speaker to a damaging signal range!

In any case you will want to use your warranty to either have it repaired or replaced!

Don’t attempt to resolve the issue yourself and void the warranty it’s just a speaker and you can use phantom centre until the defective speaker is replaced or repaired!

You won’t hardly miss your centre during the process other then the gap it leaves you to look at while on its vacation!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
Given that you were using your centre without any issues and then had an issue rear up out of no where it’s possible the woofer is pooched.
Or going from dome tweeters that work better off axis to ribbon tweeters that don't do so well with vertical dispersion. Really depends on where he has it located. That's a quick, free and easy thing to test for a first step to see if it makes a difference.
 
S

sajohnson504

Audiophyte
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the feedback.

I reset my receiver and manually went through all the steps shown in the Yamaha Manual and the problem persists.

Porge, when sitting in my chair the center channel is to low, so you are correct, that is part of my problem. I do plan to mount the tv to the wall later so I can get the center up higher.

However, with all that being said, I moved the speaker to ear level and even put it right in my face. When looking directly at it sounds like 80% of the sound is coming from the left. If I hold my ear over each speaker, I can tell that the left is almost twice the volume making it dominant. I turned up the volume a bit and the more I turn it up the better the right speaker sounds. It’s almost like its not getting the enough power or something.

I’ll open a case with support tomorrow and see what they say. I might have to take my old Yamaha center back out of the box and use it while the Motion 30 is gone for repair.

Pic of center attached
 

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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the feedback.

I reset my receiver and manually went through all the steps shown in the Yamaha Manual and the problem persists.

Porge, when sitting in my chair the center channel is to low, so you are correct, that is part of my problem. I do plan to mount the tv to the wall later so I can get the center up higher.

However, with all that being said, I moved the speaker to ear level and even put it right in my face. When looking directly at it sounds like 80% of the sound is coming from the left. If I hold my ear over each speaker, I can tell that the left is almost twice the volume making it dominant. I turned up the volume a bit and the more I turn it up the better the right speaker sounds. It’s almost like its not getting the enough power or something.

I’ll open a case with support tomorrow and see what they say. I might have to take my old Yamaha center back out of the box and use it while the Motion 30 is gone for repair.

Pic of center attached
It does sound like you might have an issue with a driver, but that's a tough spot for a center and ribbon tweeters are more finicky with placement, especially with vertical dispersion. They sound great when seated at roughly the same level, but stand up and the magic disappears. It's not subtle either. Even angling it up would help.

I'm pretty sure that center is a 2 way design so both woofers should be playing the same signal. If you're positive one is quieter then it might be worth it to pull that driver and see if there's a loose connection. How does your tweeter sound? Is it crisp and clear with good detail?
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
Or going from dome tweeters that work better off axis to ribbon tweeters that don't do so well with vertical dispersion. Really depends on where he has it located. That's a quick, free and easy thing to test for a first step to see if it makes a difference.
He did say he disconnected one of his main channel outputs at the speaker and connected those wires to the centre channel with the issue remaining.

He stated that he just recently had this issue start within the last 2 days. That means as long as nothing has been touched then the weak driver is defective or somehow the internal wiring must have come loose so that woofer is not receiving all the signal.
 
Hamid Khan

Hamid Khan

Junior Audioholic
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the feedback.

I reset my receiver and manually went through all the steps shown in the Yamaha Manual and the problem persists.

Porge, when sitting in my chair the center channel is to low, so you are correct, that is part of my problem. I do plan to mount the tv to the wall later so I can get the center up higher.

However, with all that being said, I moved the speaker to ear level and even put it right in my face. When looking directly at it sounds like 80% of the sound is coming from the left. If I hold my ear over each speaker, I can tell that the left is almost twice the volume making it dominant. I turned up the volume a bit and the more I turn it up the better the right speaker sounds. It’s almost like its not getting the enough power or something.

I’ll open a case with support tomorrow and see what they say. I might have to take my old Yamaha center back out of the box and use it while the Motion 30 is gone for repair.

Pic of center attached
Sounds like you have a manufacture fault, where one of the speaker is in phase and the other out of phase, considering the cross over in the center speaker is doing its job. Just an observation from the previous comments. But you are doing the correct thing contacting support.
 
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ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
Just short of trying to check for yourself... customer support.
If you wanted to check for yourself, get a screwdriver, remove the woofer in question, check the connection. If easy to remove, switch the connection and see what it sounds like. Could be as simple as that woofer being out of phase (either due to switched wires at the XO, or at the woofer terminals.) If the wires are soldered to the woofer, don't F with it. Exchange it.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
Just short of trying to check for yourself... customer support.
If you wanted to check for yourself, get a screwdriver, remove the woofer in question, check the connection. If easy to remove, switch the connection and see what it sounds like. Could be as simple as that woofer being out of phase (either due to switched wires at the XO, or at the woofer terminals.) If the wires are soldered to the woofer, don't F with it. Exchange it.
I would advise against that approach while under warranty.

Manufacturer’s do things to detect us and our handyman tactics.

Question: if one of your new speakers worked 50 hrs straight correctly and then stops performing that would you conclude it’s no longer in phase? Especially while the rest of the drivers work as manufactured.

What would suddenly create that issue?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
I would advise against that approach while under warranty.

Manufacturer’s do things to detect us and our handyman tactics.

Question: if one of your new speakers worked 50 hrs straight correctly and then stops performing that would you conclude it’s no longer in phase? Especially while the rest of the drivers work as manufactured.

What would suddenly create that issue?
I didn't get from his post that this just changed overnight. @sajohnson504 could you pls clarify?

I am suggesting nothing more than cautiously popping the woofer out to look. :) Several smaller companies, including SVS as I recall from other such 'help-me' posts, even suggest people help out with diagnosing the problem.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
I didn't get from his post that this just changed overnight. @sajohnson504 could you pls clarify?

I am suggesting nothing more than cautiously popping the woofer out to look. :) Several smaller companies, including SVS as I recall from other such 'help-me' posts, even suggest people help out with diagnosing the problem.
It’s near the end of his original post. He stated the woofer after 55-60 hrs stopped working properly while the other was producing 80% of the sound.

I don’t trust any repair techs at the manufacturer facilities. My centre channel was out of warranty so I did pop the woofer out like you suggested but because the dust cap was pushed in a bit from my son. Mind you it wasn’t feasible to try to pop it out that way since they had a lot of other things preventing me access.

Now I have a GE profile refrigerator that had a cooling fan issue in the crisper. I decided to pull the racks and crisper out to gain access yet wasn’t able to resolve the issue. I was try to save the service call cost!

So the tech arrived and noticed I had gained access to the fan which I wasn’t aware the manufacturer had precautions set in place for the warranty to be honoured.

He said my actions actually void the warranty but instead he warned me not to touch anything reminding me I paid for the extended warranty so respect that and follow the program otherwise I may not get as lucky the next time an issue under warranty arises!

That’s why I advise against being a handyman while stuffs under warranty. Why pay for something you don’t plan to use if an issue arises!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
I would advise against that approach while under warranty.

Manufacturer’s do things to detect us and our handyman tactics.

Question: if one of your new speakers worked 50 hrs straight correctly and then stops performing that would you conclude it’s no longer in phase? Especially while the rest of the drivers work as manufactured.

What would suddenly create that issue?
I've has SVS instruct me to pull drivers and check connections. If you know which end of the screwdriver to hold its not too complicated, but yeah. No harm in contacting support first just to be sure. If uncomfortable doing it then don't. I've had many speakers apart myself and am comfortable doing it.

I think SVS just didn't wanna pay shipping for something simple... I asked him about voiding the warranty and he acted like it was no big deal at all. In fact, they once had me pull the plate amp from one of my subs to ship back instead of sending the whole sub. Then they shipped me a new one which I installed with no warranty fouls.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
I've has SVS instruct me to pull drivers and check connections. If you know which end of the screwdriver to hold its not too complicated, but yeah. No harm in contacting support first just to be sure. If uncomfortable doing it then don't. I've had many speakers apart myself and am comfortable doing it.

I think SVS just didn't wanna pay shipping for something simple... I asked him about voiding the warranty and he acted like it was no big deal at all. In fact, they once had me pull the plate amp from one of my subs to ship back instead of sending the whole sub. Then they shipped me a new one which I installed.
As long as the service department is advising us the customer to perform that action and keeps an account of our call then by all means dig in!

Warranties are funny things. It’s nice when the manufacturer is more concerned about their products and their customers satisfaction with those products by going the extra mile!

Especially when nothing last for ever and we might become repeat customers!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
As long as the service department is advising us the customer to perform that action and keeps an account of our call then by all means dig in!

Warranties are funny things. It’s nice when the manufacturer is more concerned about their products and their customers satisfaction with those products by going the extra mile!

Especially when nothing last for ever and we might become repeat customers!
Well like I said, why pay shipping on a heavy item to pull a driver and plug a wire back in? I get it with more complicated electronics with high shock hazard, but speakers are pretty straight forward and safe. I'll bet most speaker manufacturers would prefer that approach, but a phone call only takes a minute and there's no harm checking. That may be just what they have him do. I think the biggest danger would be if your screwdriver slips and you scratch your cabinet (eek! :eek:).
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
It’s near the end of his original post. He stated the woofer after 55-60 hrs stopped working properly while the other was producing 80% of the sound.
Mind, I'm not trying to argue this, but I don't get that from his post. ;)

Regardless...

Warranties are great and finicky. On this we agree.

As I think about it, isn't there a trick with a battery to identify the polarity of a driver?
...
Yup, here is a description. No screwdriver required.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
Mind, I'm not trying to argue this, but I don't get that from his post. ;)

Regardless...

Warranties are great and finicky. On this we agree.

As I think about it, isn't there a trick with a battery to identify the polarity of a driver?
...
Yup, here is a description. No screwdriver required.
I’m looking at the issue he has from the point of 55-60 hrs with no issue!

What would cause a speaker in phase without touching it to suddenly become out of phase without touching it?

Even if a connection came loose inside the enclosure the driver would simply stop working altogether not sound muffled. If a driver was out of phase the bass output would be affected more than the rest of the frequency range.

I’m asking as a question not to argue!
 

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