Monoprice Monolith 15" THX Ultra Review

[Defcon]

Iirc the ultra cylinders were 46” tall. Not too bad in my estimation. How bout these...

You can get tubes with a diameter much larger than the driver too. I remember DIY projects from back then who did this, you can get very nice 2-3ft high rounded end tables/coffee tables.

 

[ryanosaur]

@Defcon, absolutely, but if you had the option, and budget to get your favorite boxes refinished in a way that could match your personal aesthetic AND budget, would you choose the PC4000 as is available today? Or a PC 4000 with your choice of beautiful wood veneer? Likewise, would you ask Salk to build you satin black, or one of the other standard finishes that are stunning?
http://www.salksound.com/gallery/Song3/s3-grayburst.jpg

 

[Defcon]

@Defcon, absolutely, but if you had the option, and budget to get your favorite boxes refinished in a way that could match your personal aesthetic AND budget, would you choose the PC4000 as is available today? Or a PC 4000 with your choice of beautiful wood veneer? Likewise, would you ask Salk to build you satin black, or one of the other standard finishes that are stunning?
http://www.salksound.com/gallery/Song3/s3-grayburst.jpg

Good question and its hard for me to answer. Honestly if I truly were that rich, I can think of plenty of other luxury items I want to spend my money on. And actually, in a real HT the speakers are all hidden anyway, so no, I wouldn't care for the finishes. For a living room setup, sure if money were no object I'd still want to get the highest performance (which would not be the costliest hifi speakers for sure) and then have a nice finish. Glossy shiny piano black with red cherry accents all around

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

It kind of is all about looks. I believe the point of diminishing returns is far earlier than most people think and there's no way the $100-300k speakers are 100x or even 10x better than a $1k speaker. Many of the ultra high end components also measure horribly and fare poorly in any blind test. There's a reason almost no company in home audio and esp high end will ever list measurements or even specs and their entire marketing/sales is based on selling to people based on their name/status and salesmen pushing the product.

Theres nothing wrong with premium finishes, these are furniture as much as speakers, as long as people understand it does nothing for the sound. I don't want to pay for any of that. Many of the high $$$ speakers contain cheap drivers and gorgeous finishes.

Lol. Ok when you said high end, I was thinking of companies like revel, or legacy for which performance, and appearance are equally important. I guess I figure speakers that cost 100k need a qualifier since they’re pretty rare, and in this forum especially, they don’t come up very often. I do agree that diminishing returns happens far sooner than people realize. Keep in mind though, there’s a lot of gray area between 100k speakers and where most of us shop, and even still at 10k, you can still get speakers that have a high value level.

You can get tubes with a diameter much larger than the driver too. I remember DIY projects from back then who did this, you can get very nice 2-3ft high rounded end tables/coffee tables.

Yes indeed, sonotube comes in many sizes. My thoughts of endtable/coffee table subs aren’t very high since imo, placement in those locations would be at a disadvantage. IME subs don’t work as well in the room vs corners or against walls. People usually do this for waf.

Btw, @KEW I have seen some diy sealed sonosubs.

 

[Defcon]

Revel is kind of a special case as they are by Harmon, who actually do care about science and measure their speakers etc.

But even in the 5k-20k/speaker there are plenty of companies who are not shall we say value for money as far as sound quality goes. One name that comes to mind is B&W. They measure poorly yet are extremely popular and have a very recognizable look.

If someone was selling a 15-18" sonotube sub or even a DIY kit, I'd buy it. You can easily place them in corners, thats where I have my SVS cylinder right now.

 

[Danzilla31]

Talking to one of the SVS cats the other day, he mentioned their pres shooting down any possibilty of turning their ultra line into a PC version... it would just be too huge! (I'm envisioning an 18-20"dx66"h tube!). But if you could get that in candy apple red, blackberry pearl, or just piano black... Damn! That would be a statement to have four of those anchoring your room! @Danzilla31, C'mon, I know you'd be there!

Regardless, I like downfiring, and I really want the PC's from SVS. I wish I could still consider a cylinder from Hsu. But the output from the pc's are a little lower than their pb brethren.

I'm with you brotha let's go! Road trip and maybe if we show up at there front door we could talk them into an ultra PC! And hit up that Double Impact while we're at it! Lol

 

[Danzilla31]

Iirc the ultra cylinders were 46” tall. Not too bad in my estimation. How bout these...

Damn are those yours bro? Those are sweet!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Damn are those yours bro? Those are sweet!

Holy $hit!!! I wish they were. I believe those are from about 2005ish. Not sure. I just thought they were fukkin bad ass.

 

[ryanosaur]

Holy $hit!!! I wish they were. I believe those are from about 2005ish. Not sure. I just thought they were fukkin bad ass.

nuff said

 

[KEW]

Btw, @KEW I have seen some diy sealed sonosubs.

True dat!
I was thinking of commercial products (but that is not what I said!)

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

True dat!
I was thinking of commercial products (but that is not what I said!)

I guess I knew you meant that but...
I’m also surprised that SVS doesn’t make a sealed pc. It would probably be so short it wouldn’t have any aesthetic advantage lol!

 

[shadyJ]

Sorry James, I have to disagree with that statement. A stiffer and denser material like HDF would reduce cabinet resonance! I agree that the stiffer/denser walls would result in a stronger reflected signal inside the cabinet (or more internal resonance). Speaker design has always suggested the more rigid the cabinet the better. IOW, minimize cabinet resonance and deal with the interior reflections in a different manner.

Based on your post, one might infer that the Monoliths are less well damped than MDF subs, and I doubt that is the case. I'm guessing they address the damping in a very competent way (based on the other indications of high quality design/engineering). Whether the differences are audible is an entirely different issue.
You would know! How well damped are the Monoliths?

Also, I think it is worth stating we are talking theory here. I'm not at all sure that the advantages of MDF outweigh the disadvantages in practice. Certainly it is not a feature to base a buying decision on and a thicker MDF wall/baffle would be better (more rigid) than thin HDF.

Actually, if I had to address this issue professionally, I bet you could, with some measurement, determine a conversion factor such as a thickness of 1.00" of HDF = 1.15" of MDF to establish equivalency of mechanical properties (to be clear, that is a made up number just to demonstrate what I mean).

Supposedly the rigidity of HDF can cause a more severe ringing at panel resonance points. Since MDF is softer, it better damps these resonances. This is what was explained to me by someone who would know. However, I am sure that design aspects such as bracing, damping, fill, etc, will have a greater impact on resonance and ringing then MDF vs HDF.

 

[shadyJ]

The ID craze was started by Svs (and Hsu) using subs made out of sonotubes - certainly not wood. And there was absolutely nothing wrong with them.

It was more started by Hsu, in 1991. SVS came a bit later, in 1999 I believe. They both started out by using sonotubes.

 

[Danzilla31]

It was more started by Hsu, in 1991. SVS came a bit later, in 1999 I believe. They both started out by using sonotubes.

Hey Shady does Hsu still do sonotubes? just curious

 

[Verdinut]

Supposedly the rigidity of HDF can cause a more severe ringing at panel resonance points. Since MDF is softer, it better damps these resonances. This is what was explained to me by someone who would know. However, I am sure that design aspects such as bracing, damping, fill, etc, will have a greater impact on resonance and ringing then MDF vs HDF.

IMO. the higher resonance of HDF is irrelevant for a subwoofer enclosure where the frequencies are way below the resonant frequency of a HDF panel, no matter which size.
If HDF is used for a full range cabinet, it's a completely different situation.

 

[shadyJ]

As an engineer, cylinders are definitely the way to go! They always should offer better performance for less money (or at least should if companies are being "honest" with their pricing)!

Obviously SVS knows exactly which shape of subs sells better since they can directly compare essentially identical PC (ported cylinder) and PB (ported box) subs.
I'm not sure about which is more imposing or looks more powerful, but it doesn't matter, in the end it is an issue of "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder".

It is curious that I have never seen a sealed cylindrical sub!

Hsu stopped selling cylinders because the demand for box subs was vastly more than the cylinders. I imagine that the demand for box subs is much more at SVS too. I wouldn't be surprised if the box subs outsold the cylinder subs at a 10 to 1 ratio.

 

[shadyJ]

Hey Shady does Hsu still do sonotubes? just curious

I wish they did. I have bugged Dr. Hsu about using his 15" in a cylinder, but I doubt it will happen. Turns out Dr. Hsu would rather manufacture subs that sell than design and manufacture a money loser for my own personal whims! Greedy! However, I suppose if I really wanted the 15" in a cylinder, I could make it myself pretty easily.

 

[KEW]

Supposedly the rigidity of HDF can cause a more severe ringing at panel resonance points. Since MDF is softer, it better damps these resonances. This is what was explained to me by someone who would know. However, I am sure that design aspects such as bracing, damping, fill, etc, will have a greater impact on resonance and ringing then MDF vs HDF.

I think that ringing must be what I am calling internal resonance where the wave is reflected more than absorbed (as compared to MDF). I'm not sure what is meant by "panel resonance points", but obviously the more rigid panel will not resonate as much under any condition.
However, either way, we are in agreement that it is not a big concern in practice. MDF vs HDF is one of many aspects of a sub, and if the sub is well designed, the use of HDF is not going to be a liability just as use of MDF in a well designed sub is not a liability. Building a sturdy box is no mystery to any engineer, and HDF is simply one of many choices in reaching an appropriate level of rigidity.

 

[shadyJ]

I think that ringing must be what I am calling internal resonance where the wave is reflected more than absorbed (as compared to MDF). I'm not sure what is meant by "panel resonance points", but obviously the more rigid panel will not resonate as much under any condition.
However, either way, we are in agreement that it is not a big concern in practice. MDF vs HDF is one of many aspects of a sub, and if the sub is well designed, the use of HDF is not going to be a liability just as use of MDF in a well designed sub is not a liability. Building a sturdy box is no mystery to any engineer, and HDF is simply one of many choices in reaching an appropriate level of rigidity.

Oh I was talking about ordinary wide-band loudspeakers, not subwoofers. Subwoofers don't produce frequencies at the wavelengths that would trigger typical resonances. None of this matters to subwoofers.

 

[Danzilla31]

Oh I was talking about ordinary wide-band loudspeakers, not subwoofers. Subwoofers don't produce frequencies at the wavelengths that would trigger typical resonances. None of this matters to subwoofers.

Probably the reason except for weight issues why it doesn't matter what you use on subwoofers when you think about it