MFW-15 increasing price

[TheFactor]

Very well said but I promise that wont apply to me, because my business will never be going in that direction ever after what I'VE seen and read. I would go sub-less first I guarantee that.

 

[jvgillow]

My 200 dollar veledyne dosent buzz, my 100 element sub didnt buzz, my first 90 dollar sony sub didnt buzz, and this 6oo or 7oo dollar sub from av123 shouldnt buzz and they should have the corrected ground loop or problem solver already on the sub before its sold, This wasnt directed towards you more towards there statement of how "you" or the proud owner can correct the problem

Were any of those other subs you've owned grounded (3-prong power)? If you've actually read all the threads about the humming MFW-15s you would know why they exhibit that behavior for some folks where other subs do not. The AV123 X-Sub isn't grounded, if you look at the picture of the amp on their web site you will see that it only has 2 pins on the power input, that's why you don't see a bunch of people saying that the X-Sub hums.

AV123 isn't expecting people to go purchase something extra to fix the MFW, they are expecting people to have properly implemented systems and good house & cable grounding. When the MFW-15 user's guide is available I'm sure they will have some proper setup & troubleshooting steps in there for people who don't search the forums or research about ground loops online.

 

[TheFactor]

Were any of those other subs you've owned grounded (3-prong power)? If you've actually read all the threads about the humming MFW-15s you would know why they exhibit that behavior for some folks where other subs do not. The AV123 X-Sub isn't grounded, if you look at the picture of the amp on their web site you will see that it only has 2 pins on the power input, that's why you don't see a bunch of people saying that the X-Sub hums.

AV123 isn't expecting people to go purchase something extra to fix the MFW, they are expecting people to have properly implemented systems and good house & cable grounding. When the MFW-15 user's guide is available I'm sure they will have some proper setup & troubleshooting steps in there for people who don't search the forums or research about ground loops online.

Yes I beleive one wasnt and the other two were and my old 90 dollar Sony 6 years ago was plugged into the wall without a surge protector and no type of power filter/regulator with no buzz. Well why are some of these people with properly implemented systems still having a buzz ? or atleast it must of been if there old sub didnt do it .Sounds to me the sub is lacking something not the customer but thats what im getting out of all the many threads i've read in there forum .

 

[TheFactor]

It just really bothers me to read about this problem that the folks are having that spend there hard earned money and they shouldnt have to research to see why there sub is buzzing, if its the grounding issue then the sub should have the proper ground to begin with like 90% or more of the subs do with prices ranging from 90 dollars to 2500 and up. Its sounds to me like a poor design and or a "dollar" cutting/saving issue or abad amp like One of there customers already had that I read on here forum. Well im done venting now I think i'll go watch a movie with my non buzzing properly grounded sub : )

 

[Matt34]

It just really bothers me to read about this problem that the folks are having that spend there hard earned money and they shouldnt have to research to see why there sub is buzzing, if its the grounding issue then the sub should have the proper ground to begin with like 90% or more of the subs do with prices ranging from 90 dollars to 2500 and up. Its sounds to me like a poor design and or a "dollar" cutting/saving issue or abad amp like One of there customers already had that I read on here forum.

If it's a wide spread problem, I'm sure AV123 will step up and make the needed corrections. Internet forums tend to overblow problems since only people with bad experiences tend to be heard. No reason to get worked up about it.

Yet, this is why I try to stay away from the hype(even though 3rd party measurements of this sub say the hype was/is well deserved) and not buy new products that haven't been proven over time.

 

[armaraas]

Hey guys. Well I picked up a cheater plug on the way home tonight and tried that right away. It did indeed work. So I set about trying to find the cause of the ground loop and disconnected the main tv cable line that came into the house. That didn't help, so I disconnected all of the tv's and cable modem network connection, and that didn't help either. So I tried to play around with what is in the room. Unplugging the tv in the room seemed the most benefial, but did not make it go away. Turning the computer off helped a bit more, but it was still pretty noticeable. Finally, I just wasn't sure if there was much else for me to try, so I gave in and called MLS. He told me to give him a call earlier when I had a chance, but I was really hoping to not have to go to that length (just doesn't seem right to bug him in particular, but I guess if he offers...)

So I did get a hold of him leaving his grandson's baseball game, we talked a bit, he had me try some things that I did already, then he had me try a couple more things, but none of it really seemed to help. I had mentioned that pretty much anything that gets turned off and on I can hear that happen through the sub. He said when that's the case the problem is from the electrical wiring, they have the wiring being ground in multiple locations instead of just one, and that's causing the ground loop. So for now I am using the cheater plug, but am going to try a one to one transformer from Radioshack.

I'll post back on the results of that. My previous sub wasn't grounded, and this is the first time I've run into this issue and wasn't familiar with it. However, now I'm curious and wish I had another sub to try to see how much of a variation there is between manufacturers, if any at all. I'm not sure if some are more susceptible than others or not.

I have no idea if there is an issue with these subs, or if there's just a lot of people like me who haven't run into this issue up until now and aren't sure how to deal with it.

 

[Matt34]

Hey guys. Well I picked up a cheater plug on the way home tonight and tried that right away. It did indeed work. So I set about trying to find the cause of the ground loop and disconnected the main tv cable line that came into the house. That didn't help, so I disconnected all of the tv's and cable modem network connection, and that didn't help either. So I tried to play around with what is in the room. Unplugging the tv in the room seemed the most benefial, but did not make it go away. Turning the computer off helped a bit more, but it was still pretty noticeable. Finally, I just wasn't sure if there was much else for me to try, so I gave in and called MLS. He told me to give him a call earlier when I had a chance, but I was really hoping to not have to go to that length (just doesn't seem right to bug him in particular, but I guess if he offers...)

So I did get a hold of him leaving his grandson's baseball game, we talked a bit, he had me try some things that I did already, then he had me try a couple more things, but none of it really seemed to help. I had mentioned that pretty much anything that gets turned off and on I can hear that happen through the sub. He said when that's the case the problem is from the electrical wiring, they have the wiring being ground in multiple locations instead of just one, and that's causing the ground loop. So for now I am using the cheater plug, but am going to try a one to one transformer from Radioshack.

I'll post back on the results of that. My previous sub wasn't grounded, and this is the first time I've run into this issue and wasn't familiar with it. However, now I'm curious and wish I had another sub to try to see how much of a variation there is between manufacturers, if any at all. I'm not sure if some are more susceptible than others or not.

I have no idea if there is an issue with these subs, or if there's just a lot of people like me who haven't run into this issue up until now and aren't sure how to deal with it.

Keep us informed please.

 

[mike c]

has ANYBODY actually been electrocuted by a subwoofer using a cheater plug?

IMHO, if the cheater plug works ... stick with it.

 

[TheFactor]

If it's a wide spread problem, I'm sure AV123 will step up and make the needed corrections. Internet forums tend to overblow problems since only people with bad experiences tend to be heard. No reason to get worked up about it.

Yet, this is why I try to stay away from the hype(even though 3rd party measurements of this sub say the hype was/is well deserved) and not buy new products that haven't been proven over time.

Those are excellent points and Yes Im done getting worked up about it and appreciate your advise, your understanding and letting me state how I feel whether its wright or wrong. Its also nice to know the op is getting it worked out to.

 

[TheFactor]

has ANYBODY actually been electrocuted by a subwoofer using a cheater plug?

IMHO, if the cheater plug works ... stick with it.

Thats what I was thinkng lol, why not not just use the cheater plug and call it good

 

[armaraas]

Thats what I was thinkng lol, why not not just use the cheater plug and call it good

Well, Mark did say that's what he used originally for a while, then he tried the transformer, I think probably to test it more than anything. He did it make sound as though the cheater plug is an option and he did say there would be no danger in it contrary to what some people may think. If the transformer doesn't work satisfactorily I'll go back to the cheater.

 

[TheFactor]

Well, Mark did say that's what he used originally for a while, then he tried the transformer, I think probably to test it more than anything. He did it make sound as though the cheater plug is an option and he did say there would be no danger in it contrary to what some people may think. If the transformer doesn't work satisfactorily I'll go back to the cheater.

BTW how are you liking the sub as far as build quality, fit and finish and of course sound not including the buzz ?

 

[MinusTheBear]

Thats what I was thinkng lol, why not not just use the cheater plug and call it good

I have been reading that there is no manual included with the sub which I thought was strange. I can see why so many people are having set up problems. Not everyone that purchases from their are audiophiles and maybe do not even know what a ground loop is. From their perspective I can see why they freak out. BTW my x-sub came with a cheater plug (I don't use it). I do not see why they would not include a cheater plug for the MFW-15 owners.

 

[Matt34]

I have been reading that there is no manual included with the sub which I thought was strange. I can see why so many people are having set up problems. Not everyone that purchases from their are audiophiles and maybe do not even know what a ground loop is. From their perspective I can see why they freak out. BTW my x-sub came with a cheater plug (I don't use it). I do not see why they would not include a cheater plug for the MFW-15 owners.

I think they rushed these a bit to hush the increasing number of complaints due to missed shipped dates. MLS has now stopped all pre-orders and may in fact stop the gift cards. I believe this is the right call to make, abeit it's too late for the current cliental which is the majority of the cause of the backlash that is happening. Take the time, do it right the first go around then when the product is being unloaded in your warehouse, make the announcement.

AV123 has some bumpy roads ahead of them still but I think they'll get through this and as a result end up a better company. They make some amazing gear for the money and like him or not, MLS is very passionate about what he does.

 

[MinusTheBear]

It definetly seems like they are rushing them out. They are expanding very fast and can't keep up. MLS has a lot on his plate right now and I think once he gets the MFW-15 shipped he will have to sit down and re-think some things. I agree with stopping the pre-orders, and maybe even pre-payment for B stock. AV123 relys heavily on their message board and I think there are lots of things to change there as well. AV123 should crackdown a little bit more on their message board and get rid of all that childish behaviour from some of their posters. AV123 has to get back control of their own message board and let MLS and his staff take care of any problems a customer has without 3rd party involvment.

 

[Mark Seaton]

Hi guys,

There is technically nothing wrong with the amplifier's grounding. It is grounded as would be preferred, but given the realities of so many home systems, it looks like the easier means of floating the component's ground may be the way it has to be done for now. Anyone who does observe a hum once connected can add a cheater plug and move on to listening and enjoying.

The MFW-15 is very efficient in the upper octave of operation, which further accentuates any hum in the driver having 2-10dB higher sensitivity than most other subwoofers from AV123 & competitors. If the subwoofer does not exhibit hum with sub on, green light showing on the amp, and no connection, the problem is a ground loop, not a faulty subwoofer. We will certainly be looking to make this a less likely occurrence, but we are hardly alone in the industry with this problem as it plagues plenty of separate amplifier manufacturers as well.

 

[mike c]

basically ONE guy has been electrocuted:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=14628&page=3

 

[MinusTheBear]

Changes at AV123 (Orders, Customer Service, Product Info etc)

For those of you that have not read this, MLS posted some changes that are going to be implemented at av123

http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=33403

 

[TheFactor]

I have been reading that there is no manual included with the sub which I thought was strange. I can see why so many people are having set up problems. Not everyone that purchases from their are audiophiles and maybe do not even know what a ground loop is. From their perspective I can see why they freak out. BTW my x-sub came with a cheater plug (I don't use it). I do not see why they would not include a cheater plug for the MFW-15 owners.

No owners manual ? Well that seems about par for the course

 

[TheFactor]

For those of you that have not read this, MLS posted some changes that are going to be implemented at av123

http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=33403

Better late then never but im not even going to comment and leave it at that, except for I wish AV123 and all there customers all the best.