Measurements not Revealing Significant Differences Between AVRs and AVPs

m. zillch

m. zillch

Junior Audioholic
I modified my previous post to show the red column in the image was not done by me and appeared in his original image because that was what was being reviewed. The fact that it is even highlighted is immaterial to my point. The SINAD numbers across the top are what are pertinent.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I modified my previous post to show the red column in the image was not done by me and appeared in his original image. The fact that it is even highlighted is immaterial to my point. The SINAD numbers across the top are what are pertinent.
Okay, understood, but those were facts, assuming measurements don't lie. If he were to say best sounding amp or something like that, then I probably would take issue, but to refer to "those listed on the THD+N at 5 W output column bar graph", I don't think there's much to object to. It specifically refer to measurements of that particular metric, that out of the so many power amps measured on ASR, the listed ones are the "Best", by that metric alone.

It is no different than if the likes of caranddriver magazine's list of the fastest cars measured by 0-100km acceleration time, as long as the magazine is not saying those are the "Best cars period.."

I guess you and I have slightly different interpretations of what's on ASR, that's normal too.

In my opinion, Amir could have done better in his presentation in terms of the written narrative (sometimes just a matter of his choice of words, besides the naturally objective measurements, but I have to say he, and Gene, are among the very best if not the best, in doing what they have been doing. They both measured the relevant metric to the level of details that allows us to appreciate how much the DUTs exceeded (or below) the generally accepted threshold of audibility, and both would also, occasionally, mentioned that some of those non SOTA performance in metrics such as SINAD/THD+N, FR, Jetter wouldn't mean there audible issues, with remarks such as "scoring 100 dB with again, inaudible distortion ".
 
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m. zillch

m. zillch

Junior Audioholic
It specifically refer to measurements of that particular metric,
No, his chart uses the term "Best Amplifiers" and does not stipulate "Best in regards to SINAD measurements"
 
m. zillch

m. zillch

Junior Audioholic
UPDATE: The supplied text associated with that chart of "Best Amplifiers" also never utters the term "SINAD" and only mentions the reviewed product's "performance" (and that of its close relative, "LA90 non-Discrete") are perched "on top of all other amplifiers ever tested":

1760720239160.png
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The music I listen to has a huge dynamic range and yes, the noise floor of the 7705 and 7706 was easily audible at the listening position and the noise floor of the AV 10 is not. It does not take much noise to affect the quality of low level pianissimo sounds, even if you can't identify it through the signal. You can't hear a sound from all my 18 Quad amp channels even in a totally silent room, and that is the standard for quality equipment. So, now I have an AVP than is a proper match for my Quad power amps. There is no doubt about it, that the AV 10 is the first multi channel AVP I have had that is of commensurate quality to the rest of my system.
Live music may have a huge dynamic range, most recordings don't. Thought you had claimed you had no audible issues with your older pre-pros, tho. I still tend to think it's your imagination than anything particularly remarkable.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Live music may have a huge dynamic range, most recordings don't. Thought you had claimed you had no audible issues with your older pre-pros, tho. I still tend to think it's your imagination than anything particularly remarkable.
Well I suppose I just rationalized as at the time I bought the previous ones, they were the best available. it was stupid to buy the 7706 though.

It is not imagination. The other units did a very poor job with Dolby Atmos streams compared to the AV 10. It is also great to have no audible sound in a quiet room with no signal. To me that is a plus.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well I suppose I just rationalized as at the time I bought the previous ones, they were the best available. it was stupid to buy the 7706 though.

It is not imagination. The other units did a very poor job with Dolby Atmos streams compared to the AV 10. It is also great to have no audible sound in a quiet room with no signal. To me that is a plus.
Rationalization sounds about right. Not particularly stupid to buy the 7706, you may just have had some poor consumer luck (as we all are subject to, no brand is immune from a few bad apples). You haven't compared directly so hard to take your comments more seriously than the guy who bought more expensive cables, or optical disc player, or turntable, etc.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Rationalization sounds about right. Not particularly stupid to buy the 7706, you may just have had some poor consumer luck (as we all are subject to, no brand is immune from a few bad apples). You haven't compared directly so hard to take your comments more seriously than the guy who bought more expensive cables, or optical disc player, or turntable, etc.
Well turntables certainly do not sound the same, not even close. That tends to be a feature of mechanical transducers. For instance Studer tape heads do not sound the same as Bogen tape heads. One microphone will sound different from another.
There is one caveat, in that you may not tell, because the sound of the speakers is so dominant they reproduce their errants ways over everything they play. They are far more sonically aberant speakers than truly neutral ones.

You are not going to AB an AVP as there are too many inputs and outputs to switch. That would be an impossible task.

However major differences are another matter. And in this case we are not talking about splitting hairs differences.

The BPO anniversary dics are a case in point. On the last rigs they were so bad I put them away out of sight. With AV 10 it is totally different. For a start they play at least 10 db louder than before, but that is the least of it. They now sound absolutely glorious this is in no way a minute difference. I even had correspondence with the engineers about it, and they stood by their work. So I will have to get in touch with them and again to correct the record. Again we are not talking about splitting hairs difference here, but a chasm.
 
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