Measurements not Revealing Significant Differences Between AVRs and AVPs

[m. zillch]

Translation please. That makes not a lick of sense to me.

Fair enough. Here goes.

Can we sense room temperature changes of 10 degrees F? Yes.
Can we sense room temperature changes of 5 degrees F? Not as easily, but yes.
Can we sense room temperature changes of 2 degrees F? Perhaps under ideal conditions, yes.
Can we sense room temperature changes of 1 degree F? Maybe some people who are very sensitive. Not me though.
Can we sense room temperature changes of .1 degrees F? No. [This is the resolution of many even cheap ones.]
Is there any value to a human being if their room thermometer registers .01 degree changes? No, but you can still market it to people in order to sell them such thermometers.

I don't buy that previous surround processors were bottle necked in a meaningful way by their processor speed/memory just like I don't buy that room thermometers with .01 degree resolution have a meaningful benefit to human comfort.

 

[TLS Guy]

Fair enough. Here goes.

Can we sense room temperature changes of 10 degrees F? Yes.
Can we sense room temperature changes of 5 degrees F? Not as easily, but yes.
Can we sense room temperature changes of 2 degrees F? Perhaps under ideal conditions, yes.
Can we sense room temperature changes of 1 degree F? Maybe some people who are very sensitive. Not me though.
Can we sense room temperature changes of .1 degrees F? No. [This is the resolution of many even cheap ones.]
Is there any value to a human being if their room thermometer registers .01 degree changes? No, but you can still market it to people in order to sell them such thermometers.

I don't buy that previous surround processors were bottle necked in a meaningful way by their processor speed/memory just like I don't buy that room thermometers with .01 degree resolution have a meaningful benefit to human comfort.

I think you are missing the point. The improvement can not be in the FR domain. It is is in the spatial arena, especially in Atmos program.

Those previous processors were bottlenecked and seriously.

 

[m. zillch]

So we obviously disagree [and I never wrote what domain I was speaking too] but out of my own curiosity are you of the mind that finally we are hearing Atmos in all its glory (decoding wise) just as we would in a commercial cinema using the same number and configuration of speakers? And up till now we had to live with a compromised version from lesser units? Or perhaps do you believe that your AV10 now exceeds what commercial cinemas offer, in regards to electronic processing at least? Just curious.

 

[dlaloum]

I think that is a big part of it. I think the other part is the improved SNR. The SNR of my previous AVPs has not been good enough. The AV 10 is 11db. better and that is a lot.

As I listen more, I note the quiet passages are much more detailed and realistic. The problem is that with 11 channels you need a really good SNR for it not to intrude. With this new rig the background is not different whether the equipment is on or off. You can not hear any generated noise at all at the seated positions.

I have listened to quite a few Atmos streams now that I previously thought were poor and now rate excellent. The most noticeable improvement has been in the Atmos sources by far. Previously I rated Atmos as interesting but not really worth the trouble. Now I am keen on it.

One issue still remains... working out whether the subjective improvement is due to improved S/N, or due to improved decoder & mixer software ... ie: is it due to software or hardware?!

If software - then many can look forward to similar improvements all the way up and down the range for every AVR/AVP that supports the same core processor platform.

If hardware (the signal to noise) - then the improvement will be limited to the flagship models where that improvement is achieved, and will not be available to buyers of the more economical members of the current generation.

There have been no in depth reviews so far that have reported similar subjective improvements over previous generation AVR/AVP's at the mass-market levels (X3800/Cinema 50 level and up).

If the improvements are software based, then the mass market tier may be pending a firmware update that will provide the latest Dolby decoder version to gain the improvements...

The absence of information on the versions of decoder software embedded makes it well nigh impossible for us to identify this....

Does anyone in our community know of a mechanism via which we can identify the versions of the decoder versions in a processor? (both Dolby and DTS... and perhaps Auro too for those that support it)