Me documenting my Dayton 18-22 cabinet build and thanks to...

moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
106
#61
Hello, yes they are Totem Winds and they do play quite deep but the sub does put out more bass. They bass is similar on certain music tracks with and without the sub but how I can tell that the bass is heavier with the subs is the rattling of the pictures behind me. Of course if I listen carefully, the Direct (sub on) setting is heavier in the bass than the Pure Direct (sub off). But it is similar. At higher volumes, the Totems start farting out of the back port and this tells me that the woofers are being over driven in the Winds... I guess this is why it is wise to have a sub.

It is indeed an AVR - Pioneer Elite SC27. This is how I am controlling the crossover setting. The MC model is the MC302.

I am familiar with the crawl and I did do it. It sounds best in the left corner. I didn't place the sub on the couch but rather moved the couch and moved the sub into the listening position and then crawled. The question about sub placement was more about is it ok to place it behind the speaker (i.e. will speaker that is in front impede the performance of the sub. I am thinking not.


Deciding on a sub-to-speaker crossover frequency is best done by trial & error. What are your speakers, and what is their low roll-off frequency? Are they Totem Winds? They are rated to go as low as 24 Hz. If so, I think 100 Hz might be too high.
View attachment 27473

I'd try 60 or 80 Hz as a starting point and go lower until you think you hear a gap between the speakers and the sub woofer. Also try listening with both the sub and your speakers run full range. It isn't always easy to tell, so give it time.

How are you controlling this crossover? In your photo, I see a large MacIntosh (?) amp, but your sub woofer prevents me from seeing what could be an AVR.
There is no generally correct or incorrect answer to sub woofer placement. Place it where ever it seems to work best in your room – within practical limits.

See the AH link that discusses how to go about this, Crawling for Bass – Subwoofer Placement Tips.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
4,508 11 2
#62
I am familiar with the crawl and I did do it. It sounds best in the left corner…
The question about sub placement was more about is it ok to place it behind the speaker (i.e. will speaker that is in front impede the performance of the sub. I am thinking not.
In theory, it certainly won't harm the sound from the sub woofer if one of your Winds sits in front of it. You've already arrived at that same conclusion as a result of listening :). I've never heard those Winds, but they are probably very nice sounding speakers. You now have quite a nice system. Congrats!

Too many people limit the arrangement of their speakers to what looks visually symmetric, as if they are arranging furniture. True, you won't like it for long if you place speakers where they make using the room awkward, but the benefit of the crawl method is that it helps you avoid the worst locations, the bass nulls in your room. There usually is more than one position for a sub woofer that works well enough for a useful compromise.

Everyone with a new sub woofer likes to know his new toy is working. As a result, they tend to turn it up too loud. Some people, not all, eventually turn them down enough so they can't tell if the bass comes from their speakers or their sub woofer. That is a worthy goal.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
106
#63
In theory, it certainly won't harm the sound from the sub woofer if one of your Winds sits in front of it. You've already arrived at that same conclusion as a result of listening :). I've never heard those Winds, but they are probably very nice sounding speakers. You now have quite a nice system. Congrats!

Too many people limit the arrangement of their speakers to what looks visually symmetric, as if they are arranging furniture. True, you won't like it for long if you place speakers where they make using the room awkward, but the benefit of the crawl method is that it helps you avoid the worst locations, the bass nulls in your room. There usually is more than one position for a sub woofer that works well enough for a useful compromise.

Everyone with a new sub woofer likes to know his new toy is working. As a result, they tend to turn it up too loud. Some people, not all, eventually turn them down enough so they can't tell if the bass comes from their speakers or their sub woofer. That is a worthy goal.
Thanks :) The Winds are truly beautiful. I also have the Totem Tribe 5 as the centre channel. I chose the Winds over the 802D2. I thought the Wind was the better sounding speaker. I picked them up used. I also auditioned the 802D2 used but as I said, I chose the WInds.

Now, I just have to make the 2nd woofer.

I was expecting power issues as I simply plugged the amp for the new sub into the wall to test. I was expecting the breaker to trip but it is staying on even with all the other gear.... hmmm.... I bet once the 2nd sub is plugged in, I will have issues. Time will tell.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
106
#64
Question... I am on the second sub and am thumped on what size of hole to drill for the bolt hole to fasten the driver to the lip. The first sub, I drilled all the way through with a 1/4" bit (the bolt used is a 1/4" 20 3 incher) and then flipped it over and drill through about 1/4" deep with a 5/16 bit to fit the T nut.

What do you do? The reason that I am asking is that there is very little room for error with this method.

Do you drill all the way through with a 5/16 bit and leave extra room around the bolt?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
4,508 11 2
#65
Drill test holes with these various bits in some scrap wood. See which bit size makes a hole that works best for the bolts & T nuts you have.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
2,778 9 5
#66
Question... I am on the second sub and am thumped on what size of hole to drill for the bolt hole to fasten the driver to the lip. The first sub, I drilled all the way through with a 1/4" bit (the bolt used is a 1/4" 20 3 incher) and then flipped it over and drill through about 1/4" deep with a 5/16 bit to fit the T nut.

What do you do? The reason that I am asking is that there is very little room for error with this method.

Do you drill all the way through with a 5/16 bit and leave extra room around the bolt?
Why did you drill for the T-nuts? Are they the type with 'fangs', or the flat ones that use a small screw to prevent them turning?

I would consider using threaded inserts.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=5H...1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.05KFJJBBR0A
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
106
#67
Why did you drill for the T-nuts? Are they the type with 'fangs', or the flat ones that use a small screw to prevent them turning?

I would consider using threaded inserts.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=5H...1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.05KFJJBBR0A
There are the ones with the fangs. They have to be drilled wider because the flange is wider than the bolt. Otherwise it doesn't go in. I've considered the treaded inserts but had T nuts left over from the first sub and decided to use them instead.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
106
#68
Drill test holes with these various bits in some scrap wood. See which bit size makes a hole that works best for the bolts & T nuts you have.
Sorry I guess I wasn't clear. I am aware of the size of the bolt and t nut but was considering drilling 5/16 all the way through. However, this method would also wiggle room for the 1/4 inch bolt. I just drilled 5/16 depth just enough to fit the t nut flange in as I did with the first sub. Also epoxied the t nuts for extra hold.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,514 18 37
#71
Just wondering... who is Roger Russel? I wasn't able to find information on his credentials. Just want to see his background.
As Swerd says, you were just on a specific part of his site devoted to things wire. I particularly like offering his site up for the "high-end" crowd.
 

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