Masimo/Sound United Dealer Portal now says “HARMAN”

[TLS Guy]

I'm going to refrain from calling you names, which is very easy to do. So I urge you to stop labeling or calling people names. Just state your case.

Show us some proofs or examples of signs that companies are moving toward INTERALLY-powered speakers?

You see B&W, Revel, KEF, Focal, Paradigm, Dynaudio, Martin-Logan, RBH, and all the big brands moving toward internally-powered speakers?

I love RBH. Some of their HIGH-END FLAGSHIPS are available as ACTIVE, but the amps/DSP are EXTERNAL.

The 100% active Linkiwitz Orion was made a long, long time ago and the amps/DSP are EXTENAL.

NHT had a little active speaker system about 30 years ago, and the amp/DSP was also EXTERNAL.

Legacy Audio has some internally-powered speakers, but they are very expensive - like $20K, which most people can't afford.

So don't tell me that $20K powered speakers are going to SAVE people money in the long-run.

Yes, there are some "affordable" internally-powered speakers from RBH and other brands, but they are generally twice the cost of similar passive speakers.

Please give ALL OF US examples of the signs that all these speaker companies moving towards internally-powered speakers.

It's cool you think all speakers should be internally powered.

But Don't talk about what YOU think SHOULD happen. Just stick to the FACTS and talk about what is happening or has been happening.

Another thing. I've been CALLING YOU OUT on this subject many times and you chose to IGNORE it. Why do you say that having more amps inside AVR is bad, but turn around and say that having more amps inside speakers is GOOD?

Are you saying that having FOUR AMPS INSIDE EACH SPEAKER is better than having the amps inside the AVR?

I think now that active speakers will spread up from the bottom end of the market. I should have realized this sooner, as a sound bar is an active speaker.

I was really impressed with Shady's review of this Kanto active speaker which sells for $700.00. It is clearly a very good speaker. Better yet it connects directly to a TV HDMI output. So there is no need for an AVR.

We all accept active subs, as a passive crossover at sub frequencies is a nightmare and a very poor performer indeed.

So I see potential demand for good systems that can be connected directly to a TV HDMI output like a soundbar.

This approach has the potential to return good audio to many homes. It will greatly reduce the demand for AVRs, and may see them the endangered species list.

Active speakers are actually nothing new. I installed a fully active system in a large hall as far back as 1974. My main listening systems have been partially active since 1976. So this is not novel technology. However zero phase active crossovers and class D amps will be the game changer that sweeps away the old.

 

[everettT]

However zero phase active crossovers and class D amps will be the game changer that sweeps away the old.

This and near infinite crossover slopes will allow designers so much flexibility. Genelec and Neumann have it down to an exact science.

 

[TLS Guy]

This and near infinite crossover slopes will allow designers so much flexibility. Genelec and Neumann have it down to an exact science.

Exactly, but my change of view is that from a mass marketing point of view, I think it will be from the bottom up and not top down. We will see.

 

[dlaloum]

I think now that active speakers will spread up from the bottom end of the market. I should have realized this sooner, as a sound bar is an active speaker.

I was really impressed with Shady's review of this Kanto active speaker which sells for $700.00. It is clearly a very good speaker. Better yet it connects directly to a TV HDMI output. So there is no need for an AVR.

We all accept active subs, as a passive crossover at sub frequencies is a nightmare and a very poor performer indeed.

So I see potential demand for good systems that can be connected directly to a TV HDMI output like a soundbar.

This approach has the potential to return good audio to many homes. It will greatly reduce the demand for AVRs, and may see them the endangered species list.

Active speakers are actually nothing new. I installed a fully active system in a large hall as far back as 1974. My main listening systems have been partially active since 1976. So this is not novel technology. However zero phase active crossovers and class D amps will be the game changer that sweeps away the old.

I like to refer people who think active speakers are a new thing, to the Revox Agora B speakers of the early 1980's ...

Great speaker if you can find one in good condition too...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think now that active speakers will spread up from the bottom end of the market. I should have realized this sooner, as a soundbar is an active speaker.

So I see potential demand for good systems that can be connected directly to a TV HDMI output like a soundbar.

So a bunch of people (who don't want to spend a bunch of money) buy CHEAP soundbars, and you extrapolate that to mean the audio market is moving toward INTERNALLY-POWERED HIGH-END speakers?

Speakers from B&W, Revel, KEF, RBH, Focal, Dynaudio, Martin-Logan, Paradigm, etc. that would cost thousands more money than passive speakers?

To even say "soundbar" in the same sentence as "Active Speaker" is a total disrespect for active speakers.

Think about this. Audiophiles who own expensive speakers, AVP, amps ABSOLUTELY HATE things like Soundbars. If they associate soundbars with active speakers, they may also hate active speakers. They may say, "So you expect us to give up our high-end speakers, AVP, and amps to buy some active speakers like some soundbars?"

How about this. I have this outrageous radical idea that might cause a huge stir - how about if these companies offer BOTH Passive and Active speakers and subwoofers like RBH Sound? Huh? How about giving people a CHOICE?

You want small speakers or large speakers? Subs or no subs? Passive speakers and subs or active? You want AVR or AVP? You want external amps or not? How about you have the freedom of choice? Isn't that the AMERICAN way?

 

[highfigh]

I think now that active speakers will spread up from the bottom end of the market. I should have realized this sooner, as a sound bar is an active speaker.

I was really impressed with Shady's review of this Kanto active speaker which sells for $700.00. It is clearly a very good speaker. Better yet it connects directly to a TV HDMI output. So there is no need for an AVR.

We all accept active subs, as a passive crossover at sub frequencies is a nightmare and a very poor performer indeed.

So I see potential demand for good systems that can be connected directly to a TV HDMI output like a soundbar.

This approach has the potential to return good audio to many homes. It will greatly reduce the demand for AVRs, and may see them the endangered species list.

Active speakers are actually nothing new. I installed a fully active system in a large hall as far back as 1974. My main listening systems have been partially active since 1976. So this is not novel technology. However zero phase active crossovers and class D amps will be the game changer that sweeps away the old.

Does the dealer where you bought the Marantz AVPs sell KEF? Have you listened to their active speakers?

 

[Hobbit]

Sound United is odd to begin with IMHO (took me a while to not think of it as United Sound to start) altho better than D&M Holdings . Harman better audio rep than Samsung otherwise.

It's not United Sound???

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's not United Sound???

I thought it was "Sound of the United States".

 

[everettT]

Does the dealer where you bought the Marantz AVPs sell KEF? Have you listened to their active speakers?

I thought the LS60 sounded great and was impressed with it's low frequency extension, definitely a value at 5k and even more so on the used market going for around 3k, IMHO and based on the LS50 2 cost at 2k.

 

[TLS Guy]

Does the dealer where you bought the Marantz AVPs sell KEF? Have you listened to their active speakers?

No, but I heard Squshman's and I thought they were excellent and very fair value for money. My dealer has a lot of expensive speakers, but none I have heard are any good. There are far, far more bad speakers than good ones in my view.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My dealer has a lot of expensive speakers, but none I have heard are any good. There are far, far more bad speakers than good ones in my view.

Which expensive speakers sound bad?

 

[TLS Guy]

So a bunch of people (who don't want to spend a bunch of money) buy CHEAP soundbars, and you extrapolate that to mean the audio market is moving toward INTERNALLY-POWERED HIGH-END speakers?

Speakers from B&W, Revel, KEF, RBH, Focal, Dynaudio, Martin-Logan, Paradigm, etc. that would cost thousands more money than passive speakers?

To even say "soundbar" in the same sentence as "Active Speaker" is a total disrespect for active speakers.

Think about this. Audiophiles who own expensive speakers, AVP, amps ABSOLUTELY HATE things like Soundbars. If they associate soundbars with active speakers, they may also hate active speakers. They may say, "So you expect us to give up our high-end speakers, AVP, and amps to buy some active speakers like some soundbars?"

How about this. I have this outrageous radical idea that might cause a huge stir - how about if these companies offer BOTH Passive and Active speakers and subwoofers like RBH Sound? Huh? How about giving people a CHOICE?

You want small speakers or large speakers? Subs or no subs? Passive speakers and subs or active? You want AVR or AVP? You want external amps or not? How about you have the freedom of choice? Isn't that the AMERICAN way?

The market will determine the course as it always will. People buy sound bars as they simply plug into the TV with one cable, and a mains plug. it often says Atmos on the box, but I think most know that is a con. However it is simple. The people I know would like a better, but STILL SIMPLE option, and no expense and clutter of a receiver. Then there is the complexity of set up which is beyond most. However, people I know, know how to use a TV and their sound bar. So active speakers, which sound bars are, can be connected the same, but have the potential to give far better results, and even at less cost then some sound bars. There are few hard disc sales now, and in decline. Streaming is much more the norm, and there are a lot of options. I even stream far more than I listen to hard media now. If TVs came able to open a web browser like two of mine do, then the "sky's" the limit. It is certainly now possible to make a very high performance system now, with no AVR, AVP or any external amps. We are at the beginning. But I believe all this has the capacity to truly explode and return good audio to most homes, as it used to be. In my view things have gone well and truly off the rails and restricted these advances to the few of us who are basically audio techies and not the average Jo, so to speak, who would like good sound without a lot of hassle.

Lastly, active speakers could easily be designed with bass management, and I think they pretty much all would be, making the addition of a sub, simplicity itself.

There will be no point in offering passive speakers in a set up like I envisage. Passive crossovers will always be far inferior to digital zero phase shift designs, and actually cheaper. Passive crossovers I think will eventually disappear, but that is someway down the road. You are already connecting subs with an active crossover, as a passive crossover at sub frequencies is awful and essentially does not give any decent fidelity and creates huge problems. Yes, down the road passive crossovers are headed for extinction, as active ones will be smaller, cheaper, lighter and better. They will also use far less copper which is a relatively scarce resource.

 

[TLS Guy]

Which expensive speakers sound bad?

The last ones I heard were Piega and they were expensive and awful. I see my dealer has got rid of them as I think he took my advice.
The thing that amazes me is that as you switch speakers, even between the same brand, then the sound changes significantly. I am usually a bit cheeky, and ask which ones are correct!