Marantz MM8003 or Emotiva XPA-2 + XPA-5 ?

[tutuan]

Hi All,

I'm debating between two options: Marantz MM8003 or Emotiva XPA-2 + XPA-5. Both is about the same price at $1,600 but to me it looks like Marantz SQ is better but less powerfull. My speakers are PA RTi-A9 for main fronts, CSi-A6 center and RTi-A7 for surrounds. and my listening is 70/30 ht/music. Is the MM8003 enough juice for the A9?

All comments are highly appreciated.
TIA
Charlie

 

[Seth=L]

to me it looks like Marantz SQ is better but less powerfull.

Pardon me, but how does it "look like" the Marantz would have better sound quality? Look at this from a logical standpoint. First ask yourself, have you listened to either amplifier setup on the same speakers, in the same room, at the same level? If you haven't, then there's no logical reason for you to arrive at the conclusion that the Marantz would sound better than the Emotiva, or visa versa.

Realistically the should sound the same assuming each is driven within it's design parameters. The Emotiva, having more end power, will sound better at higher levels than the Marantz well because it has dynamic headroom beyond the Marantz. The dynamic headroom will also be crucial with certain media types such as classic music or dynamic movie soundtracks.

To reiterate, both amplifiers are well designed and will produce the input in a linear fashion, meaning they won't color the sound or have a sonic signature unless they are driven past their operational limits or otherwise stressed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Emotiva obviously has more power, but the Marantz has better aesthetics.

They should both power your speakers just fine.

So what is more important to you, power or aesthetics?

 

[racquetman]

To reiterate, both amplifiers are well designed and will produce the input in a linear fashion, meaning they won't color the sound or have a sonic signature unless they are driven past their operational limits or otherwise stressed.

Uh, are you trying to tell people that every amplifier on the planet sounds the same as long as they are driven within "their operational limits?!" If so, I suggest you make a b-line to an audiologist.

As someone who has just auditioned an XPA-3, I highly suggest you spend your money elsewhere. The 30 day money back guarantee saved me, but I still lost almost $70 in shipping costs.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Please elaborate?

. . .
As someone who has just auditioned an XPA-3, I highly suggest you spend your money elsewhere. The 30 day money back guarantee saved me, but I still lost almost $70 in shipping costs.

Racquetman,

As someone else who is eyeing an XPA-3 from a far for now, would you be kind enough to elaborate on the defeciencies you encountered?

Thanks,
XEagleDriver

 

[j_garcia]

Compared to the MM8003, the Emotivas will provide you with quite a bit more power. I have owned Marantz amps and they are solid, but unless you are getting it used, the bang for the buck is lower than Emotiva.

Yes, I'd like to hear the comments on the XPA-3, since mine is doing quite well and sounds great thus far.

Uh, are you trying to tell people that every amplifier on the planet sounds the same as long as they are driven within "their operational limits?!" If so, I suggest you make a b-line to an audiologist.

I think what he is saying is that if you took two amps of different manufacture with similar specs, they theoretically should sound the same with a given set of speakers. Two amps with vastly different specs will not sound the same, but as has already been proved by Bob Carver, you can make one amp sound like another, even of a different type (SS can sound like tube) by tweaking various aspects of the amp circuitry.

 

[PENG]

Uh, are you trying to tell people that every amplifier on the planet sounds the same as long as they are driven within "their operational limits?!" If so, I suggest you make a b-line to an audiologist.

May be you should too.

Amps are designed by engineers to meet predetermined specs. Recently someone mentioned he knew of a manufacturer who would build the amp, have people listen to it and based on what they heard the designer/engineer would go back and tweak the design until they like what they heard...something like that but I am not quoting word for word. I will never buy amps from such manufacturers because I trust specs and measurements more than the subjective impressions of individuals.

I simply cannot and will not accept the notion of just "trust your ears". Surely I do trust my ears but only to a point. My ears may convince me a tube amp + a "warm" sounding speaker system makes better sound than that of a live concert but my brain will over rule my ears and tell me to stick with the live concert like kind of sound.

That's just my opinion and I confess I may be biased and influenced by my education and profession.

 

[racquetman]

Racquetman,

As someone else who is eyeing an XPA-3 from a far for now, would you be kind enough to elaborate on the defeciencies you encountered?

Thanks,
XEagleDriver

Well, let's get the fine print out of the way first. The following is obviously only my opinion so please treat it as such. That being said . . .

I brought the XPA-3 into my favorite local audio store to do a little critical listening with a pair of Monitor Audio PL100s. I owned these speakers previously so I am very familiar with how they sound. Anyway, it didn't take more than 30 seconds for me to be disappointed (I did a lot more listening than that, but my opinion didn't change). The sound was very harsh and grainy and unpleasant to listen to. I'm not trying to throw around fancy words here. I think these are pretty universal words to describe a particular sound without getting too esoteric. Anyway, we were comparing it to an old Nelson Pass designed Adcom two channel amplifier (no, not the 555 or variant). I brought up the fact that this wasn't a fair comparison (I really wanted to like the XPA-3 and was trying to justify buying it) because they are in two totally different price classes. However, that being said, why pay any amount of money for something that you think sounds bad?

I already have a Denon AVR-3808CI and it sounds better to me than the XPA-3 also. It was a no-brainer for me to send it back and continue my search for a better sounding amp. If you have even an average AV receiver, I just can't imagine someone adding this to their system and thinking they have made an improvement.

I wish I had a different opinion. Like I said, I wanted to like this amp. The ears don't lie, though.

 

[racquetman]

May be you should too.

Amps are designed by engineers to meet predetermined specs. Recently someone mentioned he knew of a manufacturer who would build the amp, have people listen to it and based on what they heard the designer/engineer would go back and tweak the design until they like what they heard...something like that but I am not quoting word for word. I will never buy amps from such manufacturers because I trust specs and measurements more than the subjective impressions of individuals.

I simply cannot and will not accept the notion of just "trust your ears". Surely I do trust my ears but only to a point. My ears may convince me a tube amp + a "warm" sounding speaker system makes better sound than that of a live concert but my brain will over rule my ears and tell me to stick with the live concert like kind of sound.

That's just my opinion and I confess I may be biased and influenced by my education and profession.

The best thing about this hobby is that it only has to sound good to me. I could really care less what anyone else thinks about a particular product or system. I know what I like and it doesn't matter if that system costs $600 or $600,000. I think people get too hung up on other peoples' opinions especially if they read something from someone who is a supposed expert or has 100,000 posts in a forum (so they must be an expert ).

That being said, hearing the difference between amps can be extremely easy in many cases, even if they have very similar specs. I could prove that to anyone with an open mind in about 10 seconds if they wanted to travel to my location. I think people that claim otherwise must sit in front of a computer all day long and never listen to anything. I really don't have any other explanation for why someone would claim otherwise. Sorry if this offends anyone . . .

 

[Seth=L]

If it was as bad as you say I'd have to assume it was defective.

Did you A/B with another amplifier in the same room with the same speakers. Sorry, that didn't seem clear in your post.

 

[racquetman]

If it was as bad as you say I'd have to assume it was defective.

Did you A/B with another amplifier in the same room with the same speakers. Sorry, that didn't seem clear in your post.

Yes, I did a side by side comparison with another amp keeping everything else the same.

Let's be clear, though. The sound was very sub-par to me. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be perfectly acceptable to someone else. The biggest thing I wanted to share was that I didn't think spending $600 on this product added anything if you already had an average A/V receiver. That is what I was hoping it would do for me and I was very disappointed with the results.

 

[Seth=L]

Yes, I did a side by side comparison with another amp keeping everything else the same.

Let's be clear, though. The sound was very sub-par to me. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be perfectly acceptable to someone else. The biggest thing I wanted to share was that I didn't think spending $600 on this product added anything if you already had an average A/V receiver. That is what I was hoping it would do for me and I was very disappointed with the results.

I've never owned one, and can't comment on their quality or consistancy. They receive lots of praise and the ones that Audioholics seems to have gotten their hands on have had excellent measured performance.

I personally hate the way Emotiva's equipment looks, I think it looks cheesy and tacky and that alone would keep me from buying it. I'd rather the industrial look of a professional amplifier, or the very blank look of an Adcom. Only a small handful of electronic components that Emotiva has turned out have been even remotely appealing looking to me. It's either just not my cup of tea, or they are truly ugly.

 

[PENG]

The best thing about this hobby is that it only has to sound good to me. I could really care less what anyone else thinks about a particular product or system.

Same here, except for me I would substitue "sound good...." with "sound real.....", same difference I guess, just words.

I know what I like and it doesn't matter if that system costs $600 or $600,000. I think people get too hung up on other peoples' opinions especially if they read something from someone who is a supposed expert or has 100,000 posts in a forum (so they must be an expert )

Funny that's pretty much how I feel too.

That being said, hearing the difference between amps can be extremely easy in many cases, even if they have very similar specs.

That I don't believe but I respect your belief. I don't want or mean to offend anyone either but there are people who can see ghosts too, so anything is possible.

I could prove that to anyone with an open mind in about 10 seconds if they wanted to travel to my location.

I would love to do it but too bad it wouldn't be practical right now.

I think people that claim otherwise must sit in front of a computer all day long and never listen to anything.

You think wrong because I would claim otherwise but besides working on average 10 hours a day I do listen a lot more than sitting in front of a computer. You bound to be right about some people though, but just not all.

I really don't have any other explanation for why someone would claim otherwise. Sorry if this offends anyone . .

Okay, I will take my turn to use the key words "open mind". Then you may come up with other explanations than just the "sit in front of a computer.............

I am going to log off and do some listening now.

 

[KEW]

Let's be clear, though. The sound was very sub-par to me. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be perfectly acceptable to someone else.

I think the issue which many of us are taking exception to is not whether it was better or worse, but that you heard any audible difference between an Emotiva and an Adcom amp.

Both are good solid amplifiers and unless one was damaged or being pushed beyond it's limits, they should both take the input and simply amplify it, without adding or subtracting anything between your pre-pro and speakers.

Cheers

 

[racquetman]

I think the issue which many of us are taking exception to is not whether it was better or worse, but that you heard any audible difference between an Emotiva and an Adcom amp.

Both are good solid amplifiers and unless one was damaged or being pushed beyond it's limits, they should both take the input and simply amplify it, without adding or subtracting anything between your pre-pro and speakers.

Cheers

Anyone, and I do mean anyone, could hear the difference between these two amps. It wasn't subtle at all. I was listening at very moderate levels and it took a grand total of few seconds to hear the glaring differences.

I would say this demo was a big awakening for me as I was in your school of thought before I listened to these two amps side by side. That was the main reason I decided to post about it. I was stunned by what I was hearing.

There is reason why people like Nelson Pass and John Curl are well respected for their amplifier designs in the audio community and now I know why.

 

[Matt34]

It's a good thing being deaf. I can't hear the differences in amps, sources, cables, cable raisers, bi-amping, bi-wiring, etc. Saves me a lot of headaches and money.

Seriously though, the Tinnitus is annoying as hell when I'm trying to go to sleep.

 

[dapack69]

It's a good thing being deaf. I can't hear the differences in amps, sources, cables, cable raisers, bi-amping, bi-wiring, etc. Saves me a lot of headaches and money.

Seriously though, the Tinnitus is annoying as hell when I'm trying to go to sleep.

I hear all that stuff. People laughing.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I already have a Denon AVR-3808CI and it sounds better to me than the XPA-3 also.

Since you already have a Denon AVR-3808CI, you don't need an external amp.

I think any amp you get will be only an insignificant gain, if any at all, especially if your speakers are sensitive.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I personally hate the way Emotiva's equipment looks, I think it looks cheesy and tacky and that alone would keep me from buying it.

+1.

They need to get rid of those 2 front side plates and those blue lights.

That would also SAVE the consumers some money.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Once the amps are sound level matched, I can't hear any difference either. I don't even need a double-blinded study to prove that.

Same thing with wires/cables, CD players, DACs, & preamps (direct mode).