Marantz AV7703 vs AV7704?

[aceinc]

Except it has 9 amps of which unused channels cannot be reassigned. So, one it only power 2 height channels at a time. To get all 4 heights going, an onboard 2 channel amp is required .

What am I missing? It looks like it has speaker connectors for 11 channels. Four for height.

 

[everettT]

Because only 9 channels of amplification, non assignable

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What am I missing? It looks like it has speaker connectors for 11 channels. Four for height.

The X4300 has a total of 9 Ch of Internal Amps, 7Ch for FR, FL, C, SR, SL, RR, RL. These 7Ch of amps cannot be assigned to be used for the Heights.

There are only 2 Internal Amps left to use for the Heights. You can only use 2Ch of the Height Channels, not all 4Ch with the Internal Amps of the X4300.

If it had a total of 11 Ch of internal amps, you could use all 4 Heights.

So then you would have to use an external amp for the other 2Ch of Height.

 

[agarwalro]

What am I missing? It looks like it has speaker connectors for 11 channels. Four for height.
View attachment 22674

The user picks which of Height 1 or Height 2 the AVR will power. Having 11 binding posts is for user friendly design of not having to unplug and replug different height speakers. From the Denon X4300H page,

So, 7.2.2 or 5.2.4 with internal amps alone. I misspoke about not being able to power 4 heights simultaneous. IMO, a technicality since an external 2ch amp is needed for 7.2.4 whether one chooses to use it for rear or height channels.

All AVR manufacturers are guilty of obfuscating the difference between processing capability vs. internal amps.

 

[2channel lover]

Thanks for the link. Here is the upshot so people can find it easier;

 Auro-3D now included at no charge
 HDMI Diagnostics
 eARC (enhanced audio return channel) via future firmware update

It appears that Auro-3D is a competing format to DTS-X and Atmos. Are there any advantages, and do we think it will last, or become Betamaxed?

I take it from your comments that you believe the X4300H is the knee in the curve where you get the best bang for your buck? The lower priced units are lacking in some way, and the higher priced offer little or nothing when used as a pre-pro?

Oh...so I was correct...Auro-3D is an up charge with my 7702mkii....I'm not really a movie buff so the Atmos processing is more than enough to peak my interest in surround sound.

I'm a separates person. I've heard some people say separates sound better...I wouldn't wager much money on that claim, but I see no reason you should not use the X4300 as the pre/pro if you wanted to keep the amps in a separate box, or in combination with an aux amp say running the front 3, etc.

If your goal is the best SQ you can get...the wow factor is mostly in the speaker upgrade, and the source.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the link. Here is the upshot so people can find it easier;

 Auro-3D now included at no charge
 HDMI Diagnostics
 eARC (enhanced audio return channel) via future firmware update

It appears that Auro-3D is a competing format to DTS-X and Atmos. Are there any advantages, and do we think it will last, or become Betamaxed?

I take it from your comments that you believe the X4300H is the knee in the curve where you get the best bang for your buck? The lower priced units are lacking in some way, and the higher priced offer little or nothing when used as a pre-pro?

You summed it up nicely. It has the same DAC chip as the one in the AV7703, 7704, SR7011 (most likely 7012 as well) and the Denon AVR-X6400H. You only get the higher end DAC if you go for the soon to be replaced AV8802A and AVR-X7200WA or their successors. It also has 11.2 pre-outs, and that are expected to have impressive output voltages, assuming they should perform equal to or better than the AVR-X3300W tested by Audioholics. At the $800 price point, they are probably selling like hot cakes.

With prepros, if you believe the 7004 is better than the 7003, then you should go for the 8802A, but then you know you should really wait for the 8803, there is really no end to it. With the X4300H, you get what you need, knowing full well that it is a low cost practical solution.

 

[agarwalro]

What is frustrating is that not-assignable amps is 100% a forced limitation via software. I just don't understand why. Surely no one in the right mind would buy the next higher AVR for 2 internal amps.

 

[aceinc]

What is frustrating is that not-assignable amps is 100% a forced limitation via software. I just don't understand why. Surely no one in the right mind would buy the next higher AVR for 2 internal amps.

Do you have the Amp?

Not knowing the user interface, are the amplifier assignments tied to the pre outs? In other words can you set the pre outs to 7.2.4 and redirect the two rear surrounds to the 2nd height?

If not, I suppose I could live with the something like;

Front left & right - XPA-1s (pre-out)
Center, Surround left & right - XPA-3 (pre-out)
Rear left & right - X4300H rear
Front Height - X4300H front height
Rear Height - XPA-2 (pre-out)

The XPA equipment is existing Emotiva amplifiers.

 

[KEW]

Do you have the Amp?

Not knowing the user interface, are the amplifier assignments tied to the pre outs? In other words can you set the pre outs to 7.2.4 and redirect the two rear surrounds to the 2nd height?

If not, I suppose I could live with the something like;

Front left & right - XPA-1s (pre-out)
Center, Surround left & right - XPA-3 (pre-out)
Rear left & right - X4300H rear
Front Height - X4300H front height
Rear Height - XPA-2 (pre-out)

The XPA equipment is existing Emotiva amplifiers.

That sounds like a very good set up to me.

I like the 4300 solution vs the dedicated pre-pro because The pre-pro will become obsolete sooner than any of the other components. I guess something like 7 to 10 years is typical life of a pre-pro (or AVR). Accordingly, I'd rather spend big bucks on better speakers and high quality amps (for durability) that will (can) stay with me for decades rather than something I will be getting rid of in a few years.
Every year or two the manufacturers release a new model with the latest and greatest features. They have hired smart people to try and convince you that these new features are critical to your enjoyment of your system. Yet lot's of people enjoyed the system they had 30 years ago (assuming high quality).

If you have the big bucks available for a top level pre-pro without it impacting your budget for the other gear, etc. Go for it!!! You'll have my heartfelt thanks, because those buyers are essentially subsidizing some of the cost required for R&D and manufacturing experience required to introduce new technology into lower tier products at bargain prices (like the 4300)!

By the way, the 4300 has an Eco mode which in addition to saving power, lowers the AVR temperature by about 10 degrees. I have never been able to hear any difference at all, but would be a little reluctant to activate it if I was using it for the mains... just in case! However, with my mains on an external amp, I don't hesitate to use Eco mode with the surrounds. The reading I have done on it makes clear that it can not effect the pre-pro section, only the amp section (and I have read nothing to indicate it has audible impact, but until I see testing to verify no audible impact, I am wary).

 

[agarwalro]

Do you have the Amp?
Not knowing the user interface

I don't have it, but, the GUI has not changed appreciably since the X4000. Amp Assign is the first step in auto setup, before running Audyssey.

are the amplifier assignments tied to the pre outs?

Yeah, the amp assignments are fixed/ unchanged within the confines of these options, http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4300H/NA/EN/DRDZSYasydxfyy.php#

AVR amp channels can be diverted to Zone 1 LR bi-wire or Speaker B or a Zone 2 LR, at the expense of having them available for Main Zone rear or height speakers.

In other words can you set the pre outs to 7.2.4 and redirect the two rear surrounds to the 2nd height?

If not, I suppose I could live with the something like;

Front left & right - XPA-1s (pre-out)
Center, Surround left & right - XPA-3 (pre-out)
Rear left & right - X4300H rear
Front Height - X4300H front height
Rear Height - XPA-2 (pre-out)

The pre-outs on the other hand, are somewhat independent of amp assignments. They can be set to, Main Zone (7.2.4), Zone 2 (2.0) and Zone 3 (2.0). So, that external amp arrangement will be achieved without any hassle.

Front left & right - XPA-1s (pre-out)
Center, Surround left & right - XPA-3 (pre-out)
Rear left & right - X4300H rear
Front Height - X4300H front height
Rear Height - XPA-2 (pre-out)

Giggity giggity .

 

[aceinc]

That sounds like a very good set up to me.

I like the 4300 solution vs the dedicated pre-pro because The pre-pro will become obsolete sooner than any of the other components. I guess something like 7 to 10 years is typical life of a pre-pro (or AVR). Accordingly, I'd rather spend big bucks on better speakers and high quality amps (for durability) that will (can) stay with me for decades rather than something I will be getting rid of in a few years.
Every year or two the manufacturers release a new model with the latest and greatest features. They have hired smart people to try and convince you that these new features are critical to your enjoyment of your system. Yet lot's of people enjoyed the system they had 30 years ago (assuming high quality).

If you have the big bucks available for a top level pre-pro without it impacting your budget for the other gear, etc. Go for it!!! You'll have my heartfelt thanks, because those buyers are essentially subsidizing some of the cost required for R&D and manufacturing experience required to introduce new technology into lower tier products at bargain prices (like the 4300)!

By the way, the 4300 has an Eco mode which in addition to saving power, lowers the AVR temperature by about 10 degrees. I have never been able to hear any difference at all, but would be a little reluctant to activate it if I was using it for the mains... just in case! However, with my mains on an external amp, I don't hesitate to use Eco mode with the surrounds. The reading I have done on it makes clear that it can not effect the pre-pro section, only the amp section (and I have read nothing to indicate it has audible impact, but until I see testing to verify no audible impact, I am wary).

Sound logic (pun noted). My Pre/Pro is currently an Emotiva XMC-1. My previous one was a an Emotiva UMC-1, and before that I had a Pioneer Elite. My current dilemma is, (I posted this on hometheatershack) the cost to upgrade the XMC-1 to 4k and Atmos is ~$1,000.

Emotiva does not offer bells & whistles such as Internet radio, HD Radio, Network access to audio file, Heos or similar... I do not know if the SQ is better. If so, then I would need to decide on the bells & whistles vs SQ.

 

[PENG]

Sound logic (pun noted). My Pre/Pro is currently an Emotiva XMC-1. My previous one was a an Emotiva UMC-1, and before that I had a Pioneer Elite. My current dilemma is, (I posted this on hometheatershack) the cost to upgrade the XMC-1 to 4k and Atmos is ~$1,000.

Emotiva does not offer bells & whistles such as Internet radio, HD Radio, Network access to audio file, Heos or similar... I do not know if the SQ is better. If so, then I would need to decide on the bells & whistles vs SQ.

If you follow the logic and consider the known facts and data, it should be easy to choose. Once you mix in subjective and bias opinions by users and reviewers it becomes more difficult. Objectively speaking, at the level of a upper middle range avr or preprocessing, the room, quality of the media source, and speakers pretty determine the sound quality you can expect.

I think a lot of people don't realize the differences in measurable sound quality resulted from moving just a few inches, are so significant, that makes the minute difference offered by different avr, prepro, amps not worth considering.

 

[aceinc]

Moving to the rest of my system, which I concur is more important than the pre/pro.

My fronts, rears, subs and center channel I built myself. Everything except the woofer section of the fronts are my own "design." The center is my own design and the rears are built from a "driver kit." The subs are a combination of a kit & my own design. The surrounds are store bought (actually craigslist) Mirage Omni 260s.

The room appears as though it shouldn't be conducive to a good sounding system, but it sounds pretty darn good. I will need to decide whether to install speakers in the ceiling, or use the reflective speakers for the height channels. The folks that sell the reflective say its better, folks that sell in ceiling say they're better, I've read one potentially unbiased opinion that says the ceiling mount are better.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I do not know if the SQ is better.

Once you use EQ, it's a matter of preference.

For example, I love Audyssey Dynamic EQ for everything, and I would not buy anything without it. Audyssey DEQ is a must-have for me. So even if I had to pay more, I would pay more just so I could have Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

If EMO has an EQ that you must have, then I think it's worth paying more for. If EMO doesn't have any EQ that you must have, then the difference in SQ is negligible. In Direct mode (bypass all EQ), they are comparable in SQ.

 

[aceinc]

Once you use EQ, it's a matter of preference.

For example, I love Audyssey Dynamic EQ for everything, and I would not buy anything without it. Audyssey DEQ is a must-have for me. So even if I had to pay more, I would pay more just so I could have Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

If EMO has an EQ that you must have, then I think it's worth paying more for. If EMO doesn't have any EQ that you must have, then the difference in SQ is negligible. In Direct mode (bypass all EQ), they are comparable in SQ.

Ah, there's the rub, which is better, MCACC, YPAO, AUDYSSEY, DIRAC, ARC...?

I have both MCACC and DIRAC in different rooms/systems and because of the different rooms, speakers and systems it is difficult to know which is best.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ah, there's the rub, which is better, MCACC, YPAO, AUDYSSEY, DIRAC, ARC...?

I have both MCACC and DIRAC in different rooms/systems and because of the different rooms, speakers and systems it is difficult to know which is best.

I was specifically referring to Dynamic EQ, not room EQ. I actually use Audyssey BYPASS + Dynamic EQ.

But yes, any EQ, including Room EQ, could make a difference.

Best Buy will price match Amazon. So you could get the Denon X4300 from Best Buy. Then try it out and compare the Denon vs EMO using the same speakers and room. Compare DIRAC vs Audyssey XT32. But also try bypassing Audyssey L/R and using Dynamic EQ. Try out the different Dynamic EQ Offset points, which will increase or decrease the Dynamic EQ effect.

If you like the Denon better or the same, keep the Denon. Otherwise, return the Denon and upgrade the EMO.

 

[aceinc]

I was specifically referring to Dynamic EQ, not room EQ. I actually use Audyssey BYPASS + Dynamic EQ.

But yes, any EQ, including Room EQ, could make a difference.

Best Buy will price match Amazon. So you could get the Denon X4300 from Best Buy. Then try it out and compare the Denon vs EMO using the same speakers and room. Compare DIRAC vs Audyssey XT32. But also try bypassing Audyssey L/R and using Dynamic EQ. Try out the different Dynamic EQ Offset points, which will increase or decrease the Dynamic EQ effect.

If you like the Denon better or the same, keep the Denon. Otherwise, return the Denon and upgrade the EMO.

Hmmm...

Not a bad idea.

 

[PENG]

Ah, there's the rub, which is better, MCACC, YPAO, AUDYSSEY, DIRAC, ARC...?

I have both MCACC and DIRAC in different rooms/systems and because of the different rooms, speakers and systems it is difficult to know which is best.

You seem like an open minded audioholic, and have some respect for the room effect, so how about spend <$100 on a mic and have some fun using REW to learn more about your room.

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-setup-with-rew

It will certainly let you find out which setup is better. My money is on the Dirac, not the MCACC.

 

[aceinc]

You seem like an opened audioholic, and have some respect for the room effect, so how about spend <$100 on a mic and have some fun using REW to learn more about your room.

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-setup-with-rew

It will certainly let you find out which setup is better. My money is on the Dirac, not the MCACC.

I have REW and a microphone, and used it with the speakers I've recently built. The speakers, which are open baffle consist of two cabinets each, the woofer section is a servo controlled dual 12" open baffle design by GR Research & Rythmik Audio. The upper cabinets contain two 8" mid woofers and a NEO-8 ribbon. The cabinet is my own design.

The plate amps on the woofer section have 8 or so controls, and there is an L-Pad on the upper to tweak the tweeter. Having REW and a calibrated Mic, helped integrate these beasts into my system. Using REW I was able to get the speakers integrated well enough that I prefer listening to them in 2 channel mode without Dirac.

Regarding being an "Audioholic," I can quit anytime I want. Really, any time, no problem, I can just walk away...

 

[PENG]

I have REW and a microphone, and used it with the speakers I've recently built. The speakers, which are open baffle consist of two cabinets each, the woofer section is a servo controlled dual 12" open baffle design by GR Research & Rythmik Audio. The upper cabinets contain two 8" mid woofers and a NEO-8 ribbon. The cabinet is my own design.

The plate amps on the woofer section have 8 or so controls, and there is an L-Pad on the upper to tweak the tweeter. Having REW and a calibrated Mic, helped integrate these beasts into my system. Using REW I was able to get the speakers integrated well enough that I prefer listening to them in 2 channel mode without Dirac.

Regarding being an "Audioholic," I can quit anytime I want. Really, any time, no problem, I can just walk away...

That explains why you don't get defensive when the 3 letter word was brought up, armed with DIY skill/experience and REW, you know the truth already.