Marantz AV 10 installed: - Early Review and Impressions.

[dlaloum]

What does it "tilt"?

It Simultaneously reduces the bass while increasing the treble or vice versa... it "tilts" the frequency response - as per the Quad 34 manual:

 

[Trebdp83]

One can check system information to see just what the hell is going on. One can also post a pic of that information for the benefit of all.

 

[TLS Guy]

So mixed in Atmos or just an algorithm applied to basic 2ch material?

Mixed in Atmos, not upmixed.

 

[dlaloum]

It Simultaneously reduces the bass while increasing the treble or vice versa... it "tilts" the frequency response - as per the Quad 34 manual:

View attachment 73768

As an aside... it is now very much "in vogue" to apply "Harman" target curves, to both boost the bass and provide a tilt down to the treble....

With a tilt control set to +3/-3 Quad was effectively providing the "Harman target" in 1985...

 

[Trell]

You seem to always know the reason for anything concerning AVPs and AVRs without ever offering up actual evidence to back up your claims.

I believe you when you say you believe you have improved sound with the AV 10. The reasons why are many and still unknown.

You have offered up nothing more than your belief that there is a significant difference between. You wouldn’t accept as much from another making such claims without proof on paper.

I’m glad you are enjoying the system and believe you could improve on it still with some tweaks after learning more about its features and capabilities. That goes for the TV as well.

Indeed.

 

[Trell]

If you are happy with your unit and the way it is dialed in, good on you. But, just remember your ridiculous amount of posts prior to your 7705 and 7706 failing. It was all about your speakers and the level of perfection you had reached before your AVPs each took a s#%t.

You had no complaints until those units started making noise and had no bad things to say about the BPO Dolby Atmos presentation or the Dolby Surround up mixer. Dolby and Denon/Marantz have simply improved on their products.

Enjoy your system however you have it set up. I’m not convinced you ever had the 7705 or 7706 setup properly and no display of input signals, sound modes or speaker configuration has ever been put on display in any of your posts.

In the future, spare us the first impressions of any new TV you may purchase when your current one finally takes a s#%t. LG has improved on their product as well.

The BPO and Microsoft do need to get Dolby Atmos going on Windows for sure. After not too many years, some apps have their support discontinued on older TVs. Even if not discontinued, many apps may not receive updates.

I recall those posts as well and here we are in this thread of his.

 

[PaulBe]

There is always room for disagreement, but the post stream is looking like a ‘pile on flame war’ of the OP. Is this necessary?

If you disagree with the OP and expect evidence and science to back up his anecdotal claims, you should be expected to offer your own evidence and science for your disagreement.

Try to remember this is just a hobby. This is thread about a piece of audio/video electronic equipment. It’s not like it will affect our eternity.

 

[isolar8001]

There is always room for disagreement, but the post stream is looking like a ‘pile on flame war’ of the OP. Is this necessary?

If you disagree with the OP and expect evidence and science to back up his anecdotal claims, you should be expected to offer your own evidence and science for your disagreement.

Try to remember this is just a hobby. This is thread about a piece of audio/video electronic equipment. It’s not like it will affect our eternity.

True.
We all have our perceptions that maybe can be proved, and most likely can not.

Here's my favorite audio perception I certainly cant prove...but I believe it.
All my music listening is done from file.
Usually flac or m4a...lossless. It sounds good, of course.

Sometimes for fun, I will take files into AudioMuxer and make an mkv video out of the album at hand.
Or just mux them into an mka file.

To me...the same files/album somehow sounds better that way.
It makes no sense, I know...but I believe it !

 

[Trell]

If you disagree with the OP and expect evidence and science to back up his anecdotal claims, you should be expected to offer your own evidence and science for your disagreement.

That's not how it works, except in the audiofool world: The one making the claim should back it up.

In this case the OP is very knowledgeable and has both the means (equipment) and the competence to measure the output from the preouts. That includes any noise as well, of course.

You're new here so likely you've missed much history of previous claims and opinions.

 

[Trell]

True.
We all have our perceptions that maybe can be proved, and most likely can not.

Here's my favorite audio perception I certainly cant prove...but I believe it.
All my music listening is done from file.
Usually flac or m4a...lossless. It sounds good, of course.

Sometimes for fun, I will take files into AudioMuxer and make an mkv video out of the album at hand.
Or just mux them into an mka file.

To me...the same files/album somehow sounds better that way.
It makes no sense, I know...but I believe it !

I believe that you believe that!

 

[PaulBe]

As an aside... it is now very much "in vogue" to apply "Harman" target curves, to both boost the bass and provide a tilt down to the treble....

With a tilt control set to +3/-3 Quad was effectively providing the "Harman target" in 1985...

There is a lot of history to what is currently called the Harmon curve. I’ve already forgotten most of it. The curve is not a specific curve. It’s an adjustable continuum. It needs to be because speakers have different polar responses, and have different power responses in different rooms. IIRC, B&K of microphone fame did some of the original research.

The Quad tilt control is an easy way for the consumer to apply A curve to his speakers/room, presents immediate feedback, and may or may not create a more pleasing balance. Judicious use of Bass and Treble tone controls can mimic the tilt function.

 

[PaulBe]

That's not how it works, except in the audiofool world: The one making the claim should back it up.

In this case the OP is very knowledgeable and has both the means (equipment) and the competence to measure the output from the preouts. That includes any noise as well, of course.

You're new here so likely you've missed much history of previous claims and opinions.

What I said IS how it works in the real world. It’s called ‘peer review’. If you can, do some real peer review. The OP is not beholden to you for anything. Make your own claims.

I don’t need history to read the current tone of the thread. No one has to 'prove' anything to you. What you are convinced of is your own business.

 

[PaulBe]

True.
We all have our perceptions that maybe can be proved, and most likely can not.

Here's my favorite audio perception I certainly cant prove...but I believe it.
All my music listening is done from file.
Usually flac or m4a...lossless. It sounds good, of course.

Sometimes for fun, I will take files into AudioMuxer and make an mkv video out of the album at hand.
Or just mux them into an mka file.

To me...the same files/album somehow sounds better that way.
It makes no sense, I know...but I believe it !

Perception is a funny thing. I'm always checking myself when I make changes. Most times I get it right. Occasionally I get it wrong.

Before I retired I was an audio expert. Now, I'm just a student of psychoacoustics.

 

[Trell]

What I said IS how it works in the real world. It’s called ‘peer review’. If you can, do some real peer review. The OP is not beholden to you for anything. Make your own claims.

No it's not how it works in the "real world" and then you go on talking about "real peer review" showing that you don't know what it means or why it's done. Assuming you talk about peer review as done by reputable scientific journals.

I don’t need history to read the current tone of the thread. No one has to 'prove' anything to you. What you are convinced of is your own business.

And then you miss out why there is push back to OP's statements. Had it been anyone else he would have been down on them quite quickly, often quite abrasive.

Go read this post again:

Marantz AV 10 installed: - Early Review and Impressions.

You seem to always know the reason for anything concerning AVPs and AVRs without ever offering up actual evidence to back up your claims. I believe you when you say you believe you have improved sound with the AV 10. The reasons why are many and still unknown. You have offered up nothing more...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[Trebdp83]

It is getting a little thick in here, isn’t it? Can somebody open a window? Somebody enjoying their new AVP is hardly a reason for others to lose their minds.

Those familiar with @TLS Guy know what to expect when he posts about one thing or another. It can be equal parts amusing and obnoxious. But, that goes for many around this joint.

I’m sure he is pleasantly surprised by the improvement in performance he claims to have experienced with the AV 10. It is no small thing for him to rave about new tech. Some are interested in knowing more about these improvements and how the system is configured. They’ll just have to wait for their own invitation to his home to check it all out.

 

[Squishman]

There are albums that need to be heard in its entirety. "Dusty in Memphis" is one. McCartney's Ram is another. But I'll be bringing the Dusty Springfield half-speed master LP next weekend. Cannot wait to hear it on the good doctor's system.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Before I retired I was an audio expert. Now, I'm just a student of psychoacoustics.

So as an audio expert did you feel that all amps and preamps sound differently especially if one has higher SINAD than another?

No argument EITHER way. No proofs asked. Just curious.

We already know TLG Guy, another audio expert, who hates AVR, thinks all speakers and subs should have built-in amps/DSP/electronics.

 

[PaulBe]

So as an audio expert did you feel that all amps and preamps sound differently especially if one has higher SINAD than another?

No argument EITHER way. No proofs asked. Just curious.

We already know TLG Guy, who hates AVR and thinks all speakers and subs should have built-in amps/DSP/electronics.

Like I said, "Now, I'm just a student of psychoacoustics" I'm retired. I'll try to answer your question the best I can:

SINAD is a useful generalized number. It's not an end-all-be-all. It's a number that says - if you are playing a recording at an SPL that equals the SINAD number, all the 'measured' distortions in the SINAD number are at or below audibility. Inference example - SPL is 110 dB spl; SINAD of component is 110; Audible distortion of component is 0dB spl or less. 0dB spl is a reference for audibility - It's not silence.

The greater the SINAD number, the less chance there will be audible distortion. Distortion in this case is comprised of elements of the sound that are measured.

Amps and preamps do sound different. My own references for SOTA sound quality and neutrality are the Benchmark products. I don't claim they are the only references. I claim they are in the rare camp of real references. There is more than enough online data to explore these thoughts. Many pros use their products for references. They are very reliable. They are very hi-end for home use without being ridiculous in price.

My pro references were - Neve, SSL, Euphonics, JBL, Genelec, QSC, dbx, Grass Valley, Shure, Crown, EV, and host of other variable quality equipment. I didn't use any stand alone preamps.

I don't particularly care for amps/DSP/electronics to be built-in the speakers. Having the electronics in a component subject to large mechanical and acoustical vibrations is counter productive. Snarky opinion - it's the definition of insanity, at least in home situations where the maximum in sound quality and longevity is desired. It has better application in some pro venues.

BTW - I used the phrase 'audio expert' somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I wasn't boasting. I was what some would consider an expert in my field, but the field is very big and no one gets to know everything.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

…this is just a hobby. This is thread about a piece of audio/video electronic equipment. It’s not like it will affect our eternity.

I’ve said that many times, but something like, “Audio is just a hobby, not rocket science or brain/heart surgery”.

Definitely not worth it to me to have angry arguments over.

 

[PaulBe]

I’ve said that many times, but something like, “Audio is just a hobby, not rocket science or brain/heart surgery”.

Definitely not worth it to me to have angry arguments over.

That SpaceX Starship explosion yesterday was a big one. Ouch!