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Golfx
Senior Audioholic
Keeping your company small, competent and centralized helps.
"Let our rigorous testing and reviews be your guidelines to A/V equipment – not marketing slogans"
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dlaloum
Senior Audioholic
Looks like Massimo is preparing to sell SU again....
Who ends up owning SU, and how much R&D support they have in the next generation, will be an interesting thing to follow...
gene
Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
My sources claim the sell off will keep the SU brands together. We shall see.
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PENG
Audioholic Slumlord
They target people who are willing to shop in the market for the so called money no object group. If the design/manufacturing teams of smaller AVR/AVP manufacturers such as Anthem (lots of bugs at launch time of their MRX and AVM in around 2020/21) were given the kind of budget Trinnov's teams were given, I bet their products would have been relatively bug free to at or shortly after launch.
So, with the likes of Trinnov, it is sort of, you get what you paid for. I am willing to spend a lot, for quality that I know are not "audible/detectable" to me, but I simply cannot afford prices in the range of above $10,000 for just a prepro, my limit is probably around the level of the AV10 and AVM90, even then I might have to be prepared to wear body armor and wear earplugs (then what's the point right) at home 24/7 just to go for those AVPs.
.
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PENG
Audioholic Slumlord
Where's @M Code when we need to hear from him? It would be great if he could get us some ideas as to who really are the big players in the current AVR/AVP/AMPs/Streamers manufacturing, like who's been selling more, Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, or Onkyo?
And, would he be able to tell us who's the reliable ones, still Yamaha, or someone else now, based on what kind of database (warranty claims, service requests, returns etc.,)?
And, would he be able to tell us who's the reliable ones, still Yamaha, or someone else now, based on what kind of database (warranty claims, service requests, returns etc.,)?
AcuDefTechGuy
Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, in terms of bugs and R./D/Support, it's about the amount of money they allocated.They target people who are willing to shop in the market for the so called money no object group. If the design/manufacturing teams of smaller AVR/AVP manufacturers such as Anthem (lots of bugs at launch time of their MRX and AVM in around 2020/21) were given the kind of budget Trinnov's teams were given, I bet their products would have been relatively bug free to at or shortly after launch.
So, with the likes of Trinnov, it is sort of, you get what you paid for. I am willing to spend a lot, for quality that I know are not "audible/detectable" to me, but I simply cannot afford prices in the range of above $10,000 for just a prepro, my limit is probably around the level of the AV10 and AVM90, even then I might have to be prepared to wear body armor and wear earplugs (then what's the point right) at home 24/7 just to go for those AVPs.
Sony and Samsung are giants. But it seems like they don't care very much for the audio department.
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multisport4me
Audioholic
I just read this is a spinoff to separate the businesses. That makes sense to me. However, can't help but wonder if SU is being positioned to sell off at some point? I'd love to trust that they'll keep all the brands together and if they are just separating businesses, this should be what they will do. If and when they sell SU off.... I don't believe such promises. The board will make as much money for shareholders as possible and if that means selling off brands one at a time (not likely, but to make a point) - they will do it.
M Code
Audioholic General
Somebody called for M Code..
Yamaha is the leader...
* Loyal distribution
* Quality, reliable product
* Strong market position
* Unique, R&D team
The other major player in brand competition is Harman using various off-spins brands through their Arcam(UK) purchase, all built by the OE source for HK and Marantz in Vietnam. But Harman even with the significant Samsung $$ underwriting has not not made the serious commitment to enhance their strong brands... but rather sell their higher profit margin headphones, ear buds and BT speakers. But their biggest profits come from the OE auto-infotainment biz...
Just my $0.02...
AcuDefTechGuy
Audioholic Jedi
So far, the direction of SU->Masimo has been great. So
Plus, I will NEVER give up my MusicCast and MC-app.Somebody called for M Code..
Yamaha is the leader...
* Loyal distribution
* Quality, reliable product
* Strong market position
* Unique, R&D team
The other major player in brand competition is Harman using various off-spins brands through their Arcam(UK) purchase, all built by the OE source for HK and Marantz in Vietnam. But Harman even with the significant Samsung $$ underwriting has not not made the serious commitment to enhance their strong brands... but rather sell their higher profit margin headphones, ear buds and BT speakers. But their biggest profits come from the OE auto-infotainment biz...
Just my $0.02...
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Trebdp83
Audioholic Spartan
I do like MusicCast. But, let’s be honest. This latest gen of Yamaha receivers was a mess. The styling is an acquired taste for most but the Aventage models are well built. The V6A and V4A are cheap pieces of s#%t. Yamaha was literally giving them away along with the A2A. Though well built, the A2A feature set was crippled.
The 3080 was a very nice unit. If they had updated it with HDMI 2.1 features and eARC, it would have been a damn near perfect AVR.
The 3080 was a very nice unit. If they had updated it with HDMI 2.1 features and eARC, it would have been a damn near perfect AVR.
AcuDefTechGuy
Audioholic Jedi
Yeah........I wasn't very thrilled when they changed the aesthetics of the RX-A3080/CX-A5200.
But MusicCast is the real deal. It seems weird to say. I mean, of course, quality is salient. But besides that, for me, there is no other feature more important than MusicCast. Using MusicCast is literally a daily routine for me. It's like I don't care about anything else.
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Trebdp83
Audioholic Spartan
MusicCast is cool, works well and starts right where it left off. Control apps in general are cool but MusicCast is really well done and Yamaha’s web setup feature is also very good.
Back to the Marantz AV10, sweet feature set and looks like the severed head of a robot. Can you pick out the AV10?
Back to the Marantz AV10, sweet feature set and looks like the severed head of a robot. Can you pick out the AV10?
AcuDefTechGuy
Audioholic Jedi
Oh no. The Marantz looks completely different because it has a ROUND nose!MusicCast is cool, works well and starts right where it left off. Control apps in general are cool but MusicCast is really well done and Yamaha’s web setup feature is also very good.
Back to the Marantz AV10, sweet feature set and looks like the severed head of a robot. Can you pick out the AV10?
View attachment 66698
View attachment 66699
View attachment 66700
View attachment 66701
So looks nothing like those robots.
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Trebdp83
Audioholic Spartan
You did it!
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NY1999
Audiophyte
For those who have purchased the AV10, I'm wondering what the deciding factors were that convinced you to go with this processor and external amplification over one of the excellent AVRs on the market?
Did you need the additional channels? Additional AV10 features not found on the AVRs? That last bit of extra performance that AVR wouldn't provide? You like/need external amplification power? etc....
Thanks for the input.
Did you need the additional channels? Additional AV10 features not found on the AVRs? That last bit of extra performance that AVR wouldn't provide? You like/need external amplification power? etc....
Thanks for the input.
AcuDefTechGuy
Audioholic Jedi
This reminds me several years ago when I bought the $5,500 Denon AVR-5308. And then several months later, I thought, "Oh what the heck, I want the $7,500 Denon AVP-A1HDCi!"
So I ended up with both the $5,500 AVR and $7,500 AVP.
Why? Because I COULD. Because it was FUN and EXCITING.
I doubt it's about NEED or rational factors.
I think if you're asking/fighting this question, it's probably a safe bet to just go ahead with the AV10. Otherwise, you're just gonna end up wondering "what if".
Now....if you are asking me whether I would buy an AVR or AVP TODAY, I would say the AVR. I feel differently now that I've been in this hobby for 30YR. I feel like I've been there/done it with speakers and electronics. AVP's are not as fun/exciting to me today as they used to be. So different stages in life.
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Golfx
Senior Audioholic
Very little about this hobby is logical. Early on in the dinosaur times of the pre1960s separates were the aspirational standard we should all seek to get to the state of the art of equipment. For whatever reasons were used, it was the sought after standard for serious hobbyists. I just gradually went on an upgrade journey that arrived at the standard. I took a long pause to concentrate on a career and those expensive annoying things called children.
Once finished and nearing retirement, I began again on an upward journey. Starting with AVRs, then AVRs with external amps for LCR. And then, I had an epiphany. I could actually save money by buying what I thought was endgame and save money by not buying all those interim steps, then selling, then buying again etc etc.
So don‘t you see? You can actually save money by buying the AV10 now! Or as AcuDefTechguy said—won’t it bother you if you don’t?
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NY1999
Audiophyte
All, thanks for the replies.
I ended up purchasing a Cinema 30, so we'll see how it goes with any of the buyers remorse. It can always go back to seller (within 60 days), and I can move on to the AV10. Usually wouldn't consider this, but 30 was an open box, so I won't feel guilty about doing this.
I'm using all external amplification except for the 4 height channels (one of the reasons I went with the 30 so as to avoid purchasing yet another amp).
Need to do much more listening, more fine tuning of DSP, etc. and comparing same material when played back via my external DAC multichannel system. I use same amps and switch between "systems" with Coleman 7.1 switch.
One completely unrelated thing I will say is, I'm not very impressed with Tidal's Atmos selection (almost impossible to search). So far, I also think that much of their recent Atmos Pop/rock type stuff is poorly mastered, but ... more listening needed. Classical, at least what I could find, sounded pretty good. These observations applied with both Audyssey and pure direct mode.
TBD..
I ended up purchasing a Cinema 30, so we'll see how it goes with any of the buyers remorse. It can always go back to seller (within 60 days), and I can move on to the AV10. Usually wouldn't consider this, but 30 was an open box, so I won't feel guilty about doing this.
I'm using all external amplification except for the 4 height channels (one of the reasons I went with the 30 so as to avoid purchasing yet another amp).
Need to do much more listening, more fine tuning of DSP, etc. and comparing same material when played back via my external DAC multichannel system. I use same amps and switch between "systems" with Coleman 7.1 switch.
One completely unrelated thing I will say is, I'm not very impressed with Tidal's Atmos selection (almost impossible to search). So far, I also think that much of their recent Atmos Pop/rock type stuff is poorly mastered, but ... more listening needed. Classical, at least what I could find, sounded pretty good. These observations applied with both Audyssey and pure direct mode.
TBD..
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Golfx
Senior Audioholic
Your observations about atmos music are spot on. I find very few recordings have high quality atmos and then it is at a much lower output requiring me to raise the volume at least 10%. I do like the Blu-ray Disc atmos soundtrack of Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague.
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PENG
Audioholic Slumlord
@gene did you take any measurements to find out if the ADC would limit sampling rate to 96 kHz like they always had been, due to the use of the AK5358A that is now obsolete?
I just wonder if this time they upgraded their lineup to at least a slightly better one that could do 192 kHz. If you had taken any measurements using the analog inputs you would have noticed whether the AV10 downsample to 192, or still just 96.
It matters, for those who have reason not to use analog inputs in dirct/pure direct mode and still want minimal degradation from going through the ADC.
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