Madonna in Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Well, no johnnythan. That's not it at all.

I've had people offer me a cookie, when it was clearly a Black Forest cake. The fact that they chose to call it a cookie is their prerogative...but it does not make it so. You never question "authority"...do you? ;)

And God has nothing to do with this. This is entirely man's fault. :);)
And do you not see that someone calling cake a "cookie" is the same problem as someone insisting that "rock" music is something other than the generally agreed upon idea of what rock music is? If someone insists that Madonna's music is not "rock" music, they are being very much like the person who calls cake a "cookie". They can claim anything they want, but that does not make them correct.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is a joke. Its more a popularity contest than it is about the music. The judges also seem to have a heavy bias against progressive rock bands which is why legendary bands like: Genesis, Yes, ELP and King Crimson will never be included.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
And do you not see that someone calling cake a "cookie" is the same problem as someone insisting that "rock" music is something other than the generally agreed upon idea of what rock music is? If someone insists that Madonna's music is not "rock" music, they are being very much like the person who calls cake a "cookie". They can claim anything they want, but that does not make them correct.
Hmmm. So rather than confer deference upon an "authority", you propose there can be no correct answer. Interesting. Hardly novel, but interesting nonetheless. I submit there is a correct answer (sometimes more than one). But there is at least a correct answer. If what you propose were true, you could call a donkey a bull, I could call a bull a chicken, and the candlestick maker could call the chicken a donkey...and we would all be correct. But this just ain't so.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Johnd, embroiled in yet another controversy?!? Could it be? :D FWIW, the term "Rock" has taken so many different forms over the years that it can only really be used to signify anything that isn't a.) Classical, b.) Country, c.) Rap, d.) Blues, e.) Jazz, f.) Folk. Just about any other supposed sub-genre and/or description can be derived from any one or a combination of the above listed main genres, including the aforementioned "Rock". I have never considered "Pop" to be a genre, even though it is listed as such. Pop music evolved out of many variations of Rock - think back to the 50's when Rock first began taking shape, or at least started to become a common description for the type of music that was being created at the time. ;)

Also, FWIW, I don't really care about genres - I listen to music that I think sounds good, and applaud deserving artists. And Madonna is still freaking hot, I don't care what anyone says!
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Like Gene said, The Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame is a joke fellas, like having your star on the sidewalk in Hollywood, Madonna doesn't write her music (not that there's anything wrong with that:rolleyes:) either, as for her genre it's pop/dance/flavor of the day, yes you can call it rock, but again you can call rock the blues, so maybe it should be The Blues (That Was Ripped Off) Rock and Roll Hall Of Shame.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Madonna doesn't write her music
Madonna has writing credits on most of the music that appears on her albums... and solo writing credits for a fair number of her earlier stuff. She also has production credits on most of it.

So it's not fair to toss her in with pop stars who show up in the studio and sing what they're presented with. I think it's obvious that she has a pretty large hand in creating the music on her albums.
 
MUDSHARK

MUDSHARK

Audioholic Chief
Yuk. John Lennon must be rolling in his grave. I never listened to pop much in the eighties but I really liked Weird Al's parodies of her songs. Like a Surgeon comes to mind. You younger guys can, pehaps, give her a more objective comment.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
I'm sorry. But for all the confused members out there: Madonna is not rock!

Now. I have spoken...end of discussion. And if anybody discusses anything other than rock, Madonna or her award in this thread, your post will be deleted and you will receive a proportionate amount of demerits. :p;)
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
MADONNA EMBODIES THE VERY NATURE OF ROCK AND ROLL - SHE IS ROCK AND ROLL!!! :D :D

Consider the hook baited, and line cast John... :p:D
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
Until there is a hall of fame for every musical category and subcategory, rock and roll is the best fit for giving Madonna an award.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Until there is a hall of fame for every musical category and subcategory, rock and roll is the best fit for giving Madonna an award.
That may be true. I was neither commenting on that, or her worthiness of an award. I was commenting that she is not a rock artist...pure and simple. And I don't need to refer to wiki or some site to decide that. :D

I'm just having some fun here guys...if you didn't notice. :p
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Hmmm. So rather than confer deference upon an "authority", you propose there can be no correct answer. Interesting. Hardly novel, but interesting nonetheless. I submit there is a correct answer (sometimes more than one). But there is at least a correct answer. If what you propose were true, you could call a donkey a bull, I could call a bull a chicken, and the candlestick maker could call the chicken a donkey...and we would all be correct. But this just ain't so.
How do you get the idea that there is no correct answer from what I wrote?

There is a correct answer to the question, "what is 'rock' music?", but it is not what you want it to be. To reiterate what I have said before, "rock" music is a broad category, not a narrow one, and it is full of "sub-genres" (see the links I provided earlier). Madonna, regardless of her merit or lack thereof as a musician, person, or thing, performs or has performed music that fits under that broad category that is called "rock music".

Now, you, as well as a few other people, wish to misuse the term "rock" music by insisting that it has a more narrow meaning than is commonly given to the expression. (Or, to be more precise, to misuse it by insisting that it does not have this broad meaning that I have mentioned repeatedly; many words have more than one meaning—just consult any standard dictionary, and you will see that most words have several different and slightly different definitions, and all are correct usages.) You can insist that words do not have the meaning that they have, and invent your own, but you will not be properly speaking English when you do such a thing. You can rant and rave all you want, but if you are interested in what words mean, I strongly suggest consulting dictionaries and other such reference materials. To simply say, "I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS!", shows no knowledge of anything whatsoever. It simply shows a stubbornness and an unwillingness to see reason. Language is essentially something communal, and words are not given their meanings from one person wanting them to have a particular meaning. But, to reiterate, there is nothing stopping you from misusing words. Just don't expect the rest of us to go along with your misuse of words.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is a joke. Its more a popularity contest than it is about the music. The judges also seem to have a heavy bias against progressive rock bands which is why legendary bands like: Genesis, Yes, ELP and King Crimson will never be included.

All awards for musicians and actors are a kind of popularity contest. How could it be otherwise? I do wonder, however, what you mean by saying that it isn't about the music. It is about what music is popular among a certain group of people. Naturally, that means that music that is unpopular among the members of that group will not receive awards. Evidently, your taste in music differs from those deciding the awards for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Of course...but then how does the retailer sort 10 or 20 different genres? I know: 100,000 titles all in alphabetical order. I like many different genres, and I enjoy the music, but there is a reason for classifying them, and it is not evil. ;)
I think you will find that Madonna is generally sold in the "Rock" section of most music stores. It is not that they are being evil by putting her in that section; it is that they are correctly identifying the section to which she belongs.
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
It is precisely those aspects of Madonna that religious types object to that I admire the most. My hat is off to anyone with the guts to be openly, publicly blasphemous.
 
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