Madonna in Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Not a fan...and I don't hate her music, although I do think couple of her tunes were a little catchy...for about five minutes. :rolleyes:

And (IMHO) it's not up for discussion: it most definitely is not rock & roll. It is as much rock & roll inasmuch as Metallica is Pop. ;) Or inasmuch as Jethro Tull was more deserving than Metallica for that Grammy. :eek:
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
Leonard Cohen and Justin Timberlake are not rock and roll either.
I have always admired Madonna for remaining in control of her own career instead of letting herself be used. She earned her success and IMO deserves the award.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Madonna's music is absolutely rock and roll.
???:confused:

Now I'm confused. Than what is Audioslave? Metallica? Floyd? Yeah, yeah. There's soft rock, hard rock, acid rock, etc. Which one is Madonna?
 
E

EJ1

Audioholic Chief
Eh, I hate genres in general. Forget the labels, enjoy the music.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Leonard Cohen and Justin Timberlake are not rock and roll either.
I have always admired Madonna for remaining in control of her own career instead of letting herself be used. She earned her success and IMO deserves the award.
I didn't mean to infer that she's undesreving of an award, or that she's not talented, or a good business person, or not in control, or...

I just don't get the rock & roll affinity.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Eh, I hate genres in general. Forget the labels, enjoy the music.
Of course...but then how does the retailer sort 10 or 20 different genres? I know: 100,000 titles all in alphabetical order. I like many different genres, and I enjoy the music, but there is a reason for classifying them, and it is not evil. ;)
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
???:confused:

Now I'm confused. Than what is Audioslave? Metallica? Floyd? Yeah, yeah. There's soft rock, hard rock, acid rock, etc. Which one is Madonna?
Those are all rock.

Madonna is pop rock, contemporary, etc.

Her music is not jazz, R&B, rap, blues, country, electronica, classical, etc. It's pop rock.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:jvfyxqe5ldae
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=73:20


Besides, inclusion in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is somewhat... flexible. Look at some of these names:
http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/inductee-list/
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
If we must categorize, I would place Madonna in either pop or dance.
 
E

EJ1

Audioholic Chief
Of course...but then how does the retailer sort 10 or 20 different genres? I know: 100,000 titles all in alphabetical order. I like many different genres, and I enjoy the music, but there is a reason for classifying them, and it is not evil. ;)
Of course you need genres for separation, but it's stupid to me for people to argue who should be classified by what genre. It's pointless, IMHO.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Of course you need genres for separation, but it's stupid to me for people to argue who should be classified by what genre. It's pointless, IMHO.
Well, I agree..to a point. Especially since this is about Madonna receiving an award. I don't mean to infer that she's in any way undeserving. Rock and Roll can award her just as easily as Country. :confused:

But where I come from, Madonna is not a rock artist. And Pop is it's own classification...it is not a subset of the rock genre...totally different. But in the end, yes, it is semantics, used for classification.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
And Pop is it's own classification...it is not a subset of the rock genre...totally different. But in the end, yes, it is semantics, used for classification.
Not according to the guys at AllMusic and the guys at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, who are all without question more expert at this stuff than we are ;)
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Not according to the guys at AllMusic and the guys at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, who are all without question more expert at this stuff than we are ;)
Well...perhaps. But then, I've never kow towed to "the man" or "the establishment" if you hadn't noticed. ;)

Point being: just because they say it, that does not make it so. And I have difficulty accepting the proposition that Madonna is a rock artist, whether she states it, the establishment, or one of us lowly beings that dare not question their classifications. I stand up against "the man" on this one. ;)

And yes, Tarub, another one has seemingly "found me." :) But this is a worthwhile venture, no? Is this not entertaining? :rolleyes:
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
The terms "rock" and "rock and roll" are vague and nebulous. If you doubt this, try looking them up in a dictionary or encyclopedia. And the term "Pop" is, I believe, derived from the word "popular", which in no way indicates that it is not "rock" music. Indeed, to be very popular in the recent past, something pretty much has to be some sort of rock music, broadly defined.

Here is a list of "rock genres":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rock_genres


You can read about music genres at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_genre

I think you will find similar kinds of things at other sources, should you prefer some other encyclopedia.

But, if you wish to use words to mean something other than what most people mean by them, you can do that. You can, if you wish, use terms whose common meaning is vague and imprecise in a manner that is narrowly focused and rigidly defined (by you). But it is foolish to think that others will give up the common way of speaking to adopt the nomenclature you prefer.

I think that an impartial examination of the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame", and the history of this music, will support the idea that "rock" is a broad category, not a narrow and rigid category. And that Madonna, like her or not, is in that broad category.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
But it is foolish to think that others will give up the common way of speaking to adopt the nomenclature you prefer.
I never proposed this. And I certainly don't expect this. But I also don't need to refer to wiki or a website to know what rock is then either. ;)
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
I never proposed this. And I certainly don't expect this. But I also don't need to refer to wiki or a website to know what rock is then either. ;)
God forbid people accept actual, agreed-upon industry standard definitions of words!

It's much more interesting for everyone to have and assert their own "understanding of" or "take on" common words.

:rolleyes:
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
God forbid people accept actual, agreed-upon industry standard definitions of words!

It's much more interesting for everyone to have and assert their own "understanding of" or "take on" common words.

:rolleyes:
Well, no johnnythan. That's not it at all.

I've had people offer me a cookie, when it was clearly a Black Forest cake. The fact that they chose to call it a cookie is their prerogative...but it does not make it so. You never question "authority"...do you? ;)

And God has nothing to do with this. This is entirely man's fault. :);)
 

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